INTERVIEW
TRANSCRIPT
C-SPANS
NEWSMAKERS
Guest: Mike Duncan,
RNC Chairman
Reporters:
Jonathan Martin, The Politico & Steven Thomma, McClatchy Newspapers
Moderator: C-SPAN
TAPE DATE: Wednesday, June 11, 2008
AIR DATE/TIME:
SUNDAY, June 15, 2008 at 10 a.m. and 6 p.m. ET
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Newsmakers
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STEVE
SCULLY: Joining us on C-SPAN's
Newsmakers program, Mike Duncan, the Chairman of the Republican National
Committee. And joining us for the
questioning, Steve Thomma of McClatchy Newspapers, and Jonathan Martin, of The
Politico and Politico.com. Chairman Duncan,
let me begin with the question statement this past week by Congressman Tom
Davis, who is you know a Republican, headed up the congressional campaign
committee two years ago. And he said
your party, the Republican Party, is shrinking its base, and so far lacks any
bold initiatives to appeal to the voters.
Your response?
MIKE
DUNCAN, CHAIRMAN, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: Well I would disagree respectively with Congressman Davis. Obviously we're disappointed with the
outcome of the election in 2006, but we're making adjustments, and we're going
back to the basics of the party, and those basics are lower taxes and less
government, individual responsibility, a strong national defense. Steve, this is a center right country, and
what I see is that that Republican party has the best solutions for the
majority of people in this country, I disagree with Congressman Davis'
assessment.
SCULLY: Steven Thomma.
STEVE
THOMMA, CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPER: Mr. Chairman, only once in 60 years has this
country sent a party to the White House three times in a row, 1988. You were involved in that election, what'd
you learn from that election that you can apply this time? And what makes you think this time would be
any different than the historical norm where the country decides to change
direction?
DUNCAN: Well the great thing about this country is
that we have a giant reset button in terms of the people that use the Internet
technology today, and we look to the future and not to the past. Same thing happened in 1988, George Bush ran
a campaign on his own, he was running for the future of America, and he talked
about the future of America. John
McCain is doing that today, this not about the past eight years, this is about
what John McCain sees.
I
don't know if you saw his speech in Columbus, Ohio or not, where he talked
about what America would be like at the end of the first McCain Administration,
the war would be at an end, we would still be doing peacekeeping, the Middle
East would be more settled than it is today.
Our economy would be growing stronger, our education scores would have
improved, he has an outline for the future of America, and that's what
Americans want to hear about.
MARTIN: Mr. Chairman, last week in Philadelphia,
Senator McCain raised the comments that Senator Obama mentioned during the course
of the Democratic primary about rural voters being quote bitter. Are comments like Senator Obama's reference
to rural voters, or Michelle Obama's comments about being proud of her country,
or the role of Jeremiah Wright in Senator Obama's life. Are those issues fair game during this
campaign do you think?
DUNCAN: Well I think at the end of the day, the
American people will decide whether they can trust the person that they're
voting for for president, and is that person ready to be commander in chief,
and I think that's what's going to happen.
In regard to that, they're looking at the judgment of the person, the
judgment comes from experience, but not just experience, it comes from
associations. It comes from mistakes
that you made, the beliefs that you hold, the comments that he made in San
Francisco
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
were certainly elitist comments.
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN: He wanted made those talking about rural
America, and he was dead wrong, and it showed up in the results. Look at the votes that Hillary Clinton got
in rural America
MARTIN: Sure.
DUNCAN:
this time. So it comes down to judgment.
MARTIN: Senator McCain has shied away though from
talking about Jeremiah Wright. Is that
issue in specific do you think fair game during the course of this campaign?
DUNCAN: Well I think associations are fair game, I'd
like to talk about Rezko in Chicago, the fact that he was one of the early
supporters of Obama, helped him get started gaining this sweetheart deal for
the house that he bought. I'd like to
talk about William Heirs (ph), who was an unrepentant underground weatherman
who was involved in bombings in this country, I think you've got the vetters
that are doing the vetting for the vice presidential candidate, Holden (ph) was
involved with giving Mark Rich (ph) a pardon in this country when he was
working as an associate attorney general.
You've got Johnson (ph) who was involved in the Countrywide, getting a
sweetheart deal there.
I
think all of these things are fair game to talk about the associations, because
it comes back to judgment.
THOMMA: Mr. Chairman, you said last week on the day
of the last Democratic primary that you would not make any issue out of race in
this coming general election. I'm
curious, will you pledge not to use any of the videos of Jeremiah Wright in
your campaign this fall?
DUNCAN: Well the tone of the campaign begins at the
top, and the very first day that John McCain walked into the RNC headquarters,
which was the first week of March, as our presumptive nominee, we talked about
this campaign. He made it clear that he
wanted to run a respectful campaign, a respectful campaign on issues, because
this is the biggest leadership contest in the world, and we're doing that.
We're
talking about judgment, we're talking about association, but we're taking
Senator Obama at his word about Reverend Wright, the fact that he said he
didn't hear those sermons, the fact that he's disassociated himself from
it. So that's not something you're
going to hear me talking about. I am
going to talk about Rezko and Heirs (ph) and all of the others.
THOMMA: But you will not use that video, it's a very
inflammatory video.
DUNCAN: Well why at this point would I answer a
question like that? It's not my intent,
I have no intent, and will not make race a part of this campaign, I'll say it
that way.
SCULLY: Are you questioning the judgment of Senator
Obama?
DUNCAN: I'm questioning the judgment of Senator
Obama in many ways. I question the
judgment when he says that he will meet with the leaders of foreign terrorist
organizations, foreign countries that don't have our best interests at heart,
when he will talk to the leader of Iran, who wants to wipe Israel off the face
of the earth. So I question him in that
area, I question him in economic area where he believes that higher taxes
during an economic downturn, higher capital gains taxes will be better. I question him with his association with the
people that have gotten him where he is in this world.
He
started his political career at William Heirs' home, Rezko was his first
financial backer, they went on vacations together. So yes, I question his judgment.
MARTIN: Sir, speaking of relationships, there is one
certainly between Senator McCain and the two individuals who are in the White
House now, President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Could that be an association you think that potentially hurts
Senator McCain this fall at the ballot booth?
DUNCAN: Well I think that certainly Senator Obama's
trying to make that, and he talks about the third term.
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN: But really, I think what Senator McCain said
is more accurate that Senator Obama's running for the second Jimmy Carter term,
those of you
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
that are old enough to remember the speech
that he gave with the cardigan sweater where he talked about the morass that
this country was in. Well Barack
Obama's
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
proposing the same things that Jimmy
Carter did, he's weak on
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
the Mid East, he's proposing this windfall
profits tax that Carter did that didn't work.
MARTIN: Yes.
DUNCAN: So we're going back with the Democratic
Party.
MARTIN: Well that's not a very reigning defense of
your president, I would say, but let me ask you this
DUNCAN: Happy to defend the president
MARTIN: Sure.
My question is this, sir, is it you think appropriate for President
Bush, Vice President Cheney to speak at Senator McCain's convention? That's been the precedent, certainly
President Clinton spoke in 2000 for Vice President Gore. Can you expect President Bush and Cheney to
have a speaking role at the convention?
DUNCAN: I expect that President Bush will have a
presence at the convention, actually we've talked about that, its tradition,
and he should be honored for the party.
MARTIN: Hell speak?
DUNCAN: But he has kept us at peace, it's not an
accident that we've not had another 9/11 in this country, we had the longest
growth in history during his administration.
He has done many things that will be remembered, the AIDS effort in
Africa, the No Child Left Behind, there are many legacies that this
administration will have. And I think
history will judge him kindly, yes, he will be invited to have a part in the
convention.
THOMMA: Use of the part and a presence, you didn't
say speak, a prime time speaking role, which is traditional
DUNCAN: I'm sure if he wants to speak at the
convention, and I believe that he will, he will certainly be invited to do
that.
MARTIN: And Cheney?
DUNCAN: I have
SCULLY: Vice President
DUNCAN:
I have no indication yet as to whether he
will (INAUDIBLE)
THOMMA: No chance at all that Dick Cheney would be
considered for running mate this time?
DUNCAN: Well I was one of a group of people who were
asked to submit names in 2000 for potential vice presidential candidates, and
we submitted all those to Dick Cheney.
So I still have that memo that I sent in.
THOMMA: Want to ask you a little bit about
money. The Democrats have raised
unbelievable amounts of money this year, the presidential candidates, I think
they're pushing $600 million total, vastly out raised your candidates, all of
them, including Senator McCain. If
Barack Obama chooses this fall to forego federal financing, and raise his own
money, he could raise hundreds of millions of dollars. What is your plan to counter that?
DUNCAN: Well we're going to have enough money, I
expect to be outspent, let me make that very clear. We expect to be outspent by the 527s, the unions, the Obama
campaign, the DNC, all combined will outspend us. The question is will we have enough money, and the answer is
yes. The last two months have been
great fundraising for the combined effort of the McCain campaign and the
Republican National Committee. We've
finished May with 50 some million dollars cash on hand, McCain had 30 some
million dollars cash on hand. May was
the very best month we've ever had in May at the Republican National Committee,
we're off to a good start this month.
So
we'll have enough money to get our message out. I want to ask you to ask Senator Obama if he's going to keep his
pledge to take the federal money in the fall campaign. Ask him that question.
MARTIN: Let me ask you a question, Mr. Chairman,
about the issue that is certainly on the minds of the junkies who watch C-SPAN,
and that is the vice presidential pick.
Should there be anything, any issue that disqualifies an option, a
person for Senator McCain do you think?
DUNCAN: Well having watched this many times over the
years, being a C-SPAN junkie also, I know the importance of this. This is the first real decision that the
American people are going to see, and it has to be someone who is ready to be
commander in chief, ready to assume the presidency, and I think that is the
major qualification.
Has
to be someone who is in tune philosophically, and that has a chemistry with the
candidate running for president. The
we have an embarrassment of riches in the party, we have businesspeople, we
have governors, we have members of Congress who are all certainly capable of
being vice president, and I'm looking forward to seeing who John McCain
recommends.
THOMMA: How would the party react if he picked a pro
choice running mate, someone like Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania?
DUNCAN: Well this is a this is a big party, and we
have pro choice and pro life both, generally the people in our party, and I
personally obviously believe in the sanctity of life, but we have a lot of
different people in our party. And this
is a big tent, and we encourage people of all persuasions to join us.
MARTIN: Well you've got you start working your
grassroots politics, I know in Kentucky, a very conservative state, very
culturally conservative, will the grassroots of your party in some of these
places like Eastern Kentucky, where you're from, be energized if on their
ticket there was in support of abortion rights, sir?
DUNCAN: Well I think back to the to the George
Bush being the vice president with Ronald Reagan in 1980
MARTIN: He changed his stance.
DUNCAN:
I remember when people were asking the
question, saying the party wouldn't come together during that period of
time. The party comes together
MARTIN: He changed his views, though.
DUNCAN:
the party's coming together now, we're
getting nine out of 10 of the Republicans who are joining John McCain. I'm confident that we will have a vice
presidential candidate that the Republican Party will embrace.
SCULLY: But if that were to happen, what would you
tell a Richard Viguerie or other conservatives who have been one of the
cornerstones of the Republican party?
DUNCAN: Well this is a hypothetical question, Steve,
and people usually don't offer hypothetical questions. But I will go back and talk to you about the
conservative values of John McCain.
John McCain is the one person for president who will appoint justices to
the Supreme Court, and there could be two or three justices the next time, we
really don't know. Justices to the
Supreme Court who will not legislate from the bench, justices who are qualified
and will interpret the constitution.
This is a big election to our conservative base because of that issue.
THOMMA: When we look at the map for this fall a
little bit and talk about some of the states you think the solidly blue
Democratic states that John McCain can put into play, and conversely those
Republican states that Obama's coming after, like Virginia and North Carolina. But first, tell us some two or three of the
states you think McCain can go after.
DUNCAN: Well the Upper Midwest. Recently I was in Wisconsin, very pleased
with what's going on there, we do have our victory organization up and going in
Wisconsin, we're not only raising money, but we're out registering people to
vote, and doing a voter identification.
I'm confident that we can win Wisconsin this fall. Then you go to Michigan, we've got a great
shot in Michigan this fall. You go down
to Pennsylvania, you look at the votes that Hillary Clinton got in rural
Pennsylvania, and the voters who say they won't vote for Barack Obama, so I
think Pennsylvania is going to be a good state for us this time.
I
go out west, and I look at how John McCain matches up so well in the west, not
only in Arizona, but in New Mexico and Nevada, those are good states for
us. Then I look at Washington and
Oregon, I'm not sure yet, but I want to look at both of those states. California has 20 some percent of the
population that is that's unaffiliated, they're neither Republican or
Democrat. John McCain is getting half
or more of all the independents in the country in all the polling that we're
doing right now. So the map is changing
greatly this time.
MARTIN: Sir, I don't want to totally ignore the down
(ph) ballot races, as you know, a lot of competitive races in the House and
Senate. The prognostications for
Republicans, especially in the Congress, are fairly dismal. What's the best case scenario for your
party, sir, when it comes to the House and Senate? Can you realistically pick up seats in either chamber, do you
think?
DUNCAN: The best case scenario is that our
candidates learn a lesson from what's happened recently in Mississippi and
Louisiana, and that they
MARTIN: What's the lesson, sir?
DUNCAN:
the lesson is that people thought they
were electing a conservative, they thought they were electing three
conservative congressmen in the south, and they elected one conservative
Republican. The Democrats are running
to the right, in many instances they running away from Barack Obama, in
Mississippi that's
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
certainly the case. Borne (ph) in Oklahoma this week made the
case running against Obama. So
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
get back to the basics, understand what
the Republican party's about, it's lower taxes and less government. We don't believe in big government solutions
to everything. It's individual
responsibilities on the social issues, and it has to do with our judges and our
values, and it's a strong national defense.
And John McCain
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
embodies that.
MARTIN: So is the goal to pick up seats, or just to
sort of mitigate the losses when it comes to the House and Senate?
DUNCAN: Well I don't have the map in front of me,
but obviously I'm out there every day saying that we've got to win more seats
in the House and the Senate, and I'm trying to do that.
THOMMA: Mr. Duncan, the consensus of the probably
the best independent analysts of this, people like Charlie Cook, and Stu
Rothenberg, Larry Sabato at the University of Virginia, is that the Democrats
are going to gain six to 20 seats in the House, three to five in the
Senate. No one sees the Republicans
gaining any seats. Is there some point
this fall where John McCain's best argument might be that he's a check on the
Democratic Congress?
DUNCAN: No, look, there's 142 days from today,
Sunday, until the election. I've been
in politics for a long time, and I've seen things change very rapidly. We're still out there to win, we're out
every day trying to elect let's take Louisiana, John Kennedy in that seat in
Louisiana. You know, we're offering
solutions in other Congressional seats all over the country, we're not giving
up at this point, and frankly that's an interesting argument that you make, and
it takes me back to Lyndon Johnson in the 1960s, and Jimmy Carter. But we're not at that point, we're still
trying to win this.
MARTIN: So you mentioned the judgment of Barack
Obama previously. I wanted to probe you
on that a little bit. Will this
election between Senator Obama and Senator McCain you think turn on issues, or
matters of character between these candidates?
DUNCAN: I think it's both, I think we start out and
we go through the issue set, and everyone has different issues that they're
interested in. Obviously the economy
right now, high gasoline prices are something that people are talking about,
the war is something that people are interested in. But at the end of the day, the leadership contest for the
greatest office in the land
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
comes down to individual personal
decisions. And do you trust the
person? That's the basic question that
you're asking as you go in the voting booth, you know, is that person
ready? And I submit to you that Barack
Obama is not ready to be commander in chief.
MARTIN: If I could just follow up, you worked in
politics for a long time, I know. What
presidential cycle does this one most remind you of?
DUNCAN: I'm not sure that I can I thought a lot
about that, I'm not sure that there is another cycle that's exactly like
this. It's very historic, we don't we
didn't have a sitting president or vice president running this time, you have
to go back to 1928 before you find that.
So with a I'm thinking that the Internet is becoming more like
television was in the '60s, and I'm looking at the at the reconfiguration of
the map. So, Jonathan, I've looked at
that very carefully, and I don't think it's like any other in modern history,
and that's what makes it so unique, and so much fun for us to watch this time.
SCULLY: But it has been a two-year process, the
longest ever.
DUNCAN: It's a very long process.
SCULLY: Too long?
DUNCAN: I personally think it's too long, and I
think if you were an incumbent president, that you would feel that it's too
long, and we're offering some solutions on that. We're going to be meeting again in August at the Republican
National Committee where we're talking about the plan for the future going
forward in 2012. Right now, the Ohio
plan is what we're considering to submit to the convention that would in effect
give a carve-out to four states, and to go early. But move the deadline back so that we wouldn't have the Christmas
and Thanksgiving commercials the next time around, and then create a two
traunches of states that would have a window of opportunity in which to have
their primaries. And it would in effect
shorten the season.
SCULLY: I got a follow-up. Has this has this hurt the ability for Washington to govern for
the Bush Administration to govern, because it's been so long?
DUNCAN: Oh I don't think it's the president has
made it clear and continues to be the commander in chief and the leader every
day, he's putting out new proposals every day, and he is acting every day. But you can see where if this becomes a
permanent campaign, a two-year campaign, in the future that it would be bad for
an administration.
THOMMA: First of all, Mr. Chairman, I know my family
will thank you if we don't all spend next Christmas in Iowa again. If you can move that date back. Are you talking to the Democratic Party
about coordinating this kind of calendar going forward?
DUNCAN: We have had discussions with the DNC, but
there are basic differences, they are a top down organization, and we're a
bottom up organization. We have to set
our rules for four years, and we'll do that this summer in Minneapolis-St.
Paul, their rules committee can change their rules in between conventions. So getting us together on the same page at
the same time has been difficult.
There
was a symposium recently at Harvard where I had several of my state chairmen
there, my general counsel attended for me, there were several Democrats on the
other side where we talked about the potential solutions for this.
THOMMA: Are you satisfied that taking away half the
delegates from Florida and Michigan, as both parties now have done. Is it enough of a punishment to stop states
next time from leapfrogging to the front of the line?
DUNCAN: I think we followed the rules this time, and
we did absolutely the right thing, and I do think it kept other states from
going early. Look at the number of
states that got right up to the deadline on that Super Tuesday, and didn't go
beyond the deadline. So I think our
rules worked.
THOMMA: Do you do you think it'll work next time,
you think Governor Crist, if he's still in office in Florida, will say let's
not do that again?
DUNCAN: There are always outliers, there are always
states that are going to make their own individual determination, and again,
we're a bottom up organization, we believe in states doing it different ways. We have conventions, we have caucuses, we
have primaries, we don't have a proportionality rule on our side like the
Democrats do. I think the thing that we
need to do is put our rules in place, and then follow the rules.
MARTIN: Mr. Chairman, your committee, the RNC, has
come to the aid of the NRCC, which of course is a campaign committee that helps
to elect House Republicans, which has had some financial challenges, to put it
mildly, so far in this cycle. Senator
McCain's campaign also leaning very heavily on the resources of the RNC. How do you as the father of all these
children, if you will, how do you reconcile the demands of the various
candidates and interests that are sort of leaning on your committee right now,
which seems to be something of the sugar daddy for the GOP?
DUNCAN: Well let me make it clear that in a
presidential election, you know, our primary goal, and it's in our rules, is
that we nominate and elect the president and vice president of the United
States.
MARTIN: That's number one?
DUNCAN: That's number one. And I had on day one fully funded the presidential trust, that's
the amount that we can spend coordinated with the presidential campaign, the
day John McCain walked in, we were able to do that. We've continued to build our cash balance. What we're doing with the congressional
committee is offering them a transparent way to raise money in conjunction with
us, with a victory type program, and they're taking advantage of that, we don't
know the results of that yet. But this
is not going to take away from the presidential campaign.
MARTIN: Why have they struggled so much this year do
you think, sir?
DUNCAN: Well, you know that there was a former
employee, a treasurer, who defalcated money; I think that's a problem for the
campaign. Frankly they've raised a
great deal of money. If you look at the
dollars raised, not the transfers, Jonathan, you're going to
MARTIN: Right.
DUNCAN:
see that Tom Cole's organization has
raised a substantial amount of money this time. But they started with a huge debt, and they had to get that paid
down. So those two things have deterred
them to some extent. But again, it's do
we have enough money?
THOMMA: No doubt Senator McCain as the presumptive
nominee is the de facto head of the RNC right now, but you also have an
incumbent president. How often do you
talk to the White House, and what kind of role are they playing in the politics
this year?
DUNCAN: I talk with the campaign and I talk with the
White House every day. We continue to
communicate, it's very important for us to understand what the administration
is doing, the message that they have, it's also important for us to understand
where the campaign is, and we try to coordinate that with message every day.
THOMMA: Is the White House deferring to the McCain
campaign, or is this kind of a give and take back and forth?
DUNCAN: Well this is a question you need to ask the
White House. We're one big family, and
we're cooperating, and the president has made it clear that he could have no
greater legacy than to elect another Republican president, and that being John
McCain.
THOMMA: So he'll do whatever you and John McCain
suggest?
DUNCAN: Well he's been raising money for us, he
raised money before John McCain got there, and he's continued to raise money,
he did the fundraiser in Arizona. He's
doing what's asked of him.
MARTIN: Sir, there are some estimates that by
election day, the price at the pump will be $5 per gallon of gas, that's a
unprecedented amount, for a lot of Americans, that is something beyond sticker
shock, that's just too much to bear.
How can you party that has held the White House for the past eight years
explain to voters why they should have four more years when the price at the
pump has gone from something like $1.40 to $5 a gallon in an eight-year period?
DUNCAN: Let me submit to you that had we passed the
Republican Energy plan at the beginning of the administration, we would not be in
this situation today. Remember that
Nancy Pelosi came in with the idea that she was going to lower the amount of
the gasoline in this country, and it's gone up substantially since then. We have to have a balanced energy policy
ongoing in this country, and the Democrats have utterly failed, they've
blocked, they've been obstructionists, they don't believe in any supply side
part of this. Yesterday this week
they again proposed a strictly on a conservation side, and certainly
conservation is part of this, but there's a supply side part of it.
John
McCain understands that, the Republican Party understands that.
MARTIN: So you don't think that $5 per gallon gas
poses political peril for your party at all this fall?
DUNCAN: I think that the blame for this goes to the
Democrat party, and I think if we can go back to the beginning of the energy
policy that the Bush Administration put forward, up until today, the fact that
even Barack Obama's saying that he doesn't want to have a gas holiday, you know,
we're proposing the Memorial Day through Labor Day gas holiday, he voted for
that when he was in the legislature, yet he's not for that now. So both on short-term solutions and
long-term solutions, the Democrats have been obstructionists.
THOMMA: Sir, going back to Iraq for a moment. At the beginning, you talked about John
McCain's speech looking ahead to the end of the first McCain term. And you said he envisioned that we'd be out
of Iraq. Yet this morning, he talked
about the withdrawal date being not important.
DUNCAN: I think you're taking one sentence at the
at the beginning of his soliloquy, and emphasizing that, and not talking about
the rest of it. John McCain understands
that the importance there is victory in Iraq, and that's what he's talking
about. It's important to the American
people that we win there, it's important for the stability of the Middle East,
it's important that we not have a breeding ground for terrorists going
forward. John McCain understands that,
he understands that we can't give a date certain that we're going to pull out,
but he also understands that we're going to win that, that we're doing better.
He
had the courage to stand up and say, we need to have a surge, and look at the
results, look what's happening there.
So when he talks about 2013, the end of the first McCain term, what's
going to be going on there, he's envisioning a stable Middle East, he's
envisioning us still having some peacekeepers there, but that the problem is
much better than it is today.
THOMMA: Can he go into the fall, still talking about
an open-ended commitment, and win?
DUNCAN: Yes.
MARTIN: Sir, for a long time, your party has used
Bill and Hillary Clinton as sort of rhetorical punching bags, they've been
great fodder for your direct mail lists, and certainly been the targets in many
television advertisements. How do you
view Bill and Hillary Clinton now, and could they be assets to you and your
party this fall?
DUNCAN: Certainly we want all of the Reagan
Democrats that were part of Hillary Clinton's coalition of 18 million voters in
this country to come home to the Republican Party. And we're going to be reaching out to those people.
THOMMA: Well you've run ads using Hillary Clinton's
voice, right
DUNCAN: Yes, we have.
THOMMA:
criticizing Senator Obama?
DUNCAN: Yes, and I think maybe you did a column on
that, and suggested that we even have more in the can.
THOMMA: I didn't suggest it, but I observed that it
might be the case. Do you?
DUNCAN: We certainly will continue this fall to show
the words by both candidates what were said by Hillary Clinton about Barack
Obama, but more importantly, what Barack Obama has said himself. Did you catch recently what he said about
gasoline prices, and how he actually supported the increase, it just was coming
more rapidly than he intended? I
suspect that you're going to see things like that throughout the campaign.
MARTIN: Now when you started this job, sir, did you
ever see yourself embracing Hillary Clinton?
DUNCAN: Well I'm not embracing Hillary Clinton, but
I'm certainly using her words to point out what she understood automatically
about the deficiencies and the judgment of Barack Obama.
SCULLY: Mike Duncan, the Chairman of the Republican
National Committee, thank you for joining us on C-SPAN's Newsmakers program.
DUNCAN: Steve, thank you very much.
BREAK
SCULLY: As we continue our discussion with Steven
Thomma of McClatchy Newspapers, and Jonathan Martin of Politico. What did you learn?
MARTIN: Well I was struck by two answers, first of
all the question about Jeremiah Wright, and these sort of issues relating to
Barack Obama's character. Now I think
clearly there is one line of thought on the McCain side that let's focus on
issues. But the base of the party, and
I think Chairman Duncan I think is sympathizing with his element party,
recognizes the potential resonance of the Wright comments, of Michelle Obama's
comments, and there is a sort of push and pull I think right now on his part,
and I think we saw that today, not wanting to rule out the prospect of using
that ad. But when Steve asked about race,
quickly saying that we would never use race.
And sort of where's that line?
THOMMA: You know, there's a real push in the push
and pull after these three special elections this spring, or that they lost
these congressional elections, and the notion was we the lesson they
supposedly learned was we shouldn't go after Obama being a liberal or
personality, that we've got to come at him on issues, issue by issue. But what we're hearing today is we still
kind of like this character argument, we at least from here in the Washington
end of the party, we're thinking it works.
And I think that's not what they're hearing from outside in the country.
SCULLY: Character and judgment.
THOMMA: Character and judgment, the whole the
whole personal package, rather than issue by issue.
MARTIN: Well, when I asked about is this election
going to be about issues, or about character, he pointedly said both.
SCULLY: You wrote this past week about Vice
President Cheney, and the relationship or lack thereof between the vice
president and the presumptive Republican nominee.
MARTIN: Right.
SCULLY: What did you learn?
MARTIN: Well that they have had a fairly contentious
relationship. But at the same time,
that McCain I think does have some respect for him. But from a purely political standpoint, Steve, it is almost an
impossibility that we're going to see Dick Cheney and John McCain standing
together at any point during the course of this campaign. In my reporting, I glean that he's going to
largely focus on down ballot (ph) candidates, helping out the House candidates,
the Senate candidates, state parties, largely raising money, the kind of
private events where he can sort of help the cause.
But
if he's public out there, and sort of doing media, I think the Democrats can
really use that against McCain. Rahm
Emmanuel said to me jokingly or really half jokingly, I'll pay the freight to
have Dick Cheney go out there and campaign with GOP candidates.
SCULLY: And you brought up the question about John
McCain being a check against a Democratic controlled Congress. Can you elaborate on that part?
THOMMA: Well I think it Steve, I think it's just
very clear that the Democrats are going to hold the Congress, both in the House
and Senate this fall, and they're going to have to come to some point in
September or October where they're going to acknowledge that. They're going to have to start shifting
money out of those races, and into the McCain effort state by state. And then there's this broader notion of
McCain's message, and I think by mid fall, they're going to have to position
him as a check on a liberal Congress.
SCULLY: And also new battleground states.
MARTIN: Yes, we heard about some of those, but at
the same time, I think he also hinted that it may come back to those same
states that we've talked about in the Rust Belt, Pennsylvania, Michigan and
Ohio as well. I do think that this is
the time of year, Steve, when the chairman of the party can talk about places
that are perhaps long shots, because they're free to do that. When push comes to shove after Labor Day,
and we're talking about resources and ad buys, the Oregon's, the Washington's
and Wisconsin's may be less appealing for the GOP.
THOMMA: Well especially California.
MARTIN: Right, in California
THOMMA: We're a red state every four years, a
Republican
MARTIN:
exactly.
THOMMA: But I do think it's interesting when he
not obviously McCain comes from Arizona, but moving up into the mountain west
over into New Mexico
MARTIN: Right.
THOMMA:
up into Colorado
MARTIN:
yes.
THOMMA:
that's an area the Democrats think they
can make inroads, not just Obama, but congressional Democrats, and have been
making some. And I think McCain might
have some strength there, regional strength that would put that whole region
more into play.
SCULLY: And finally one issue that we didn't get to
question Chairman Duncan on, but I'd like to get your thoughts on, is the
timing of the Republican Convention coming at the start of Labor Day as the
Democrats wrap up their convention in Denver?
What will early September look like?
THOMMA: Well, you know, this is the first time,
Steve, in history the two conventions are back to back. You know, there's only the one weekend,
usually they were anywhere from, you know, three to five weeks apart. So as Barack Obama comes out of Denver as
the nominee, on a train trip, bus trip, whatever that grand, you know, staging
is, the Republicans are rolling right into their convention, they're
MARTIN: Right.
THOMMA:
going to have to find a way to kind of
step on his story. And I wonder if they
might hold the VP pick until that
MARTIN: Right.
THOMMA:
final weekend, because that would
immediately take all the attention away from Barack Obama.
MARTIN: Have some news. But I tell you, Steve, I really think at that point, this country
is going to be consumed even more than right now about gas prices. If they go to five bucks a gallon, after
vacations, having kids go back to school, folks going back to work after Labor
Day, I think it's really going to be what's driving the political debate in
this country.
SCULLY: Jonathan Martin of Politico and Politico.com,
and Steven Thomma of McClatchy Newspapers.
Gentlemen,
thank you.
THOMMA: Thank you.
MARTIN: My pleasure.
END