CAMILLE
CAMILLE PAGLIA, WRITER,
TEACHER,
CAMILLE PAGLIA, WRITER, TEACHER, SOCIAL CRITIC AND OUR
GUEST
TEACHER, SOCIAL CRITIC AND OUR GUEST ON TODAY'S "IN DEPTH."
SHE'S
GUEST ON TODAY'S "IN DEPTH." SHE'S THE AUTHOR OF FOUR BOOKS,
"SEXUAL
SHE'S THE AUTHOR OF FOUR BOOKS, "SEXUAL PERSONAE: ART AND
DECADENCE
"SEXUAL PERSONAE: ART AND DECADENCE FROM NEFERTITI TO
EMILY
DECADENCE FROM NEFERTITI TO EMILY DICKINSON", "VAMPS AND
TRAMPS,"
EMILY DICKINSON", "VAMPS AND TRAMPS," AND "THE BIRDS."
JOIN
TRAMPS," AND "THE BIRDS." JOIN US FOR THE NEXT THREE
HOURS
JOIN US FOR THE NEXT THREE HOURS AS WE TAKE YOUR PHONE
CALLS
HOURS AS WE TAKE YOUR PHONE CALLS WITH CAMILLE PAGLIA ON
"IN
CALLS WITH CAMILLE PAGLIA ON "IN DEPTH."
>>
"IN DEPTH." >> 16 YEARS OLD, 1963, YOU
OPENED
>> 16 YEARS OLD, 1963, YOU OPENED UP "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE
AND
OPENED UP "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE AND YOU SAW YOUR NAME.
WHAT
AND YOU SAW YOUR NAME. WHAT WAS IT LIKE?
>>
WHAT WAS IT LIKE? >> WELL, ONE OF MY FIRST
PUBLICATIONS,
>> WELL, ONE OF MY FIRST PUBLICATIONS, A LETTER ABOUT
AMELIA
PUBLICATIONS, A LETTER ABOUT AMELIA EARHART WHOM I HAD BEEN
DOING
AMELIA EARHART WHOM I HAD BEEN DOING A RESEARCH PROJECT ON FOR
ABOUT
DOING A RESEARCH PROJECT ON FOR ABOUT THREE YEARS AT THAT POINT
WAS
ABOUT THREE YEARS AT THAT POINT WAS JUST AFTER THE FIRST SOVIET
COSMONAUT
WAS JUST AFTER THE FIRST SOVIET COSMONAUT WENT UP, AND I WAS
INDIGNANT
COSMONAUT WENT UP, AND I WAS INDIGNANT THAT NO AMERICAN
WOMAN
INDIGNANT THAT NO AMERICAN WOMAN WAS ELIGIBLE YET FOR THE
SPACE
WOMAN WAS ELIGIBLE YET FOR THE SPACE PROGRAM.
AS
SPACE PROGRAM. AS IT HAPPENED, COINCIDENTALLY
THAT
AS IT HAPPENED, COINCIDENTALLY THAT THE FIRST WOMAN HAD GONE
TO
THAT THE FIRST WOMAN HAD GONE TO SPACE 35 YEARS TO THE DAY
SINCE
TO SPACE 35 YEARS TO THE DAY SINCE AMELIA EARHART HAD
CROSSED
SINCE AMELIA EARHART HAD CROSSED THE ATLANTIC SO I WROTE
INTO
CROSSED THE ATLANTIC SO I WROTE INTO "NEWSWEEK" AND THEY
PUBLISHED
INTO "NEWSWEEK" AND THEY PUBLISHED IT.
NOW
PUBLISHED IT. NOW THIS IS BEFORE BETTY
FORDAN'S
NOW THIS IS BEFORE BETTY FORDAN'S BOOK WAS OUT, BEFORE
FEMINISM
FORDAN'S BOOK WAS OUT, BEFORE FEMINISM HAD ITS RESURGENCE OF
THE
FEMINISM HAD ITS RESURGENCE OF THE 1960'S, SO THIS IS ONE OF
THE
THE 1960'S, SO THIS IS ONE OF THE DOCUMENTARY PROOF, FOUR
YEARS
THE DOCUMENTARY PROOF, FOUR YEARS OLD NOW THIS YEAR, THAT
KIND
YEARS OLD NOW THIS YEAR, THAT KIND OF AN -- ONE OF THE
ABORIGINAL
KIND OF AN -- ONE OF THE ABORIGINAL FEMINISTS OF MY
GENERATION
ABORIGINAL FEMINISTS OF MY GENERATION OF THE 1960'S.
>>
GENERATION OF THE 1960'S. >> FAST FOOD, YOU'RE TRAVELING
AND
>> FAST FOOD, YOU'RE TRAVELING AND TOURING WITH YOUR MOTHER IN
WASHINGTON,
AND TOURING WITH YOUR MOTHER IN WASHINGTON, D.C., YOU'RE
WATCHING
WASHINGTON, D.C., YOU'RE WATCHING ON THE SENATE FLOOR
AND
WATCHING ON THE SENATE FLOOR AND YOU SEE BARRY GOLDWATER FOR
THE
AND YOU SEE BARRY GOLDWATER FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PERSON.
WHAT
THE FIRST TIME IN PERSON. WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HIM?
>>
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF HIM? >> A MAN OF AMAZING CHARISMA.
HE
>> A MAN OF AMAZING CHARISMA. HE HAD A KIND OF QUALITY,
ALMOST
HE HAD A KIND OF QUALITY, ALMOST LIKE KIND OF -- I DON'T
KNOW
ALMOST LIKE KIND OF -- I DON'T KNOW -- KIND OF A MEDIEVAL
WARRIOR
KNOW -- KIND OF A MEDIEVAL WARRIOR QUALITY.
HE
WARRIOR QUALITY. HE IMPRESSED ME AS AN
INTELLECTUAL
HE IMPRESSED ME AS AN INTELLECTUAL SOMEHOW.
HE
INTELLECTUAL SOMEHOW. HE RADIATED A KIND OF MENTAL
FORCE
HE RADIATED A KIND OF MENTAL FORCE EVEN FROM A STRAIGHT
DISTANCE
FORCE EVEN FROM A STRAIGHT DISTANCE AND FROM THE VISITORS
GALLERY.
>>
GALLERY. >> DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER HE
EVER
>> DO YOU REMEMBER WHETHER HE EVER HAD ANY IMPACT ON YOU?
DID
EVER HAD ANY IMPACT ON YOU? DID THE FACT THAT HE WAS A
REPUBLICAN
DID THE FACT THAT HE WAS A REPUBLICAN AND WHERE YOU WERE
MOVING
REPUBLICAN AND WHERE YOU WERE MOVING IN YOUR POLITICAL LIFE
AT
MOVING IN YOUR POLITICAL LIFE AT THAT TIME?
>>
AT THAT TIME? >> WELL, I HAD BEEN CAMPAIGNING
FOR
>> WELL, I HAD BEEN CAMPAIGNING FOR JOHN KENNEDY IN 160 I WAS
13
FOR JOHN KENNEDY IN 160 I WAS 13 YEARS OLD BUT I COME FROM AN
AREA
13 YEARS OLD BUT I COME FROM AN AREA OF UPSTATE NEW YORK THAT'S
VERY
AREA OF UPSTATE NEW YORK THAT'S VERY CONSERVATIVE, VERY
REPUBLICAN,
VERY CONSERVATIVE, VERY REPUBLICAN, A LOT OF MY FAMILY
WAS,
REPUBLICAN, A LOT OF MY FAMILY WAS, I WOULD SAY, ON THE
CONSERVATIVE
WAS, I WOULD SAY, ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE ON THE WHOLE.
ON
CONSERVATIVE SIDE ON THE WHOLE. ON THE WHOLE REPUBLICANS I
THINK
ON THE WHOLE REPUBLICANS I THINK IS THE FAMILY I CAME
FROM.
>>
FROM. >> YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT
THAT
>> YOU'VE TALKED ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOU'RE VERY UNHAPPY WITH
THE
THAT YOU'RE VERY UNHAPPY WITH THE LABELS OF CONSERVATIVE AND
LIBERAL
THE LABELS OF CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL THESE DAYS.
WHY?
>>
WHY? >> I
WHY? >> I TRY -- OH, IT SEEMS JUST
HOPELESS
>> I TRY -- OH, IT SEEMS JUST HOPELESS NOW, BUT FOR A BRIEF
SHINING
HOPELESS NOW, BUT FOR A BRIEF SHINING MOMENT IN THE EARLY
1990'S
SHINING MOMENT IN THE EARLY 1990'S IT REALLY SEEMED AS IF
WE
1990'S IT REALLY SEEMED AS IF WE WERE GOING TO MOVE INTO A
NEW
WE WERE GOING TO MOVE INTO A NEW ARENA WHERE THERE WERE LESS
INFLEXIBLE
NEW ARENA WHERE THERE WERE LESS INFLEXIBLE POLARIZATIONS ABOUT
POLITICS.
I
POLITICS. I FEEL THAT THESE DESIGNATIONS
CONSERVATIVE
I FEEL THAT THESE DESIGNATIONS CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL HAVE
LONG
CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL HAVE LONG OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULNESS,
BUT
LONG OUTLIVED THEIR USEFULNESS, BUT I'M AFRAID THAT THE MONICA
LEWINSKY
BUT I'M AFRAID THAT THE MONICA LEWINSKY AFFAIR REPOPULARIZED
THE
LEWINSKY AFFAIR REPOPULARIZED THE NATION AND NOW AT THIS
POINT
THE NATION AND NOW AT THIS POINT WITH SO MUCH DISAGREEMENT
WITH
POINT WITH SO MUCH DISAGREEMENT WITH THE IRAQ WAR I THINK WE'RE
BACK
WITH THE IRAQ WAR I THINK WE'RE BACK TO SOME OF THE WORST AND
MOST
BACK TO SOME OF THE WORST AND MOST STRIDENT KIND OF DISCOURSE
WHERE
MOST STRIDENT KIND OF DISCOURSE WHERE THE NATION IS DIVIDED
DOWN
WHERE THE NATION IS DIVIDED DOWN THE MIDDLE IN WAYS I THINK
WILL
DOWN THE MIDDLE IN WAYS I THINK WILL TAKE DECADES TO HEAL.
>>
WILL TAKE DECADES TO HEAL. >> IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US WANT
TO
>> IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US WANT TO PUT LABELS ON PEOPLE -- FOR
US
TO PUT LABELS ON PEOPLE -- FOR US NOT TO PUT LABELS ON PEOPLE?
>>
US NOT TO PUT LABELS ON PEOPLE? >> I WOULD LIKE MORE
SOPHISTICATED
>> I WOULD LIKE MORE SOPHISTICATED FORMS OF
LABELING.
I
LABELING. I MEAN, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO
CALL
I MEAN, IF SOMEONE WANTS TO CALL THEMSELVES A ROCK RIBBED
CONSERVATIVE
CALL THEMSELVES A ROCK RIBBED CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, THAT'S
FINE,
CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN, THAT'S FINE, BUT I MYSELF AM -- I AM A
LIBERTARIAN
FINE, BUT I MYSELF AM -- I AM A LIBERTARIAN WHO DISAGREES WITH
THE
LIBERTARIAN WHO DISAGREES WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT I
BELONG
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT I BELONG TO ON SO MANY LEVELS.
I
BELONG TO ON SO MANY LEVELS. I DESPISE THE CURRENT DIRECTION
OF
I DESPISE THE CURRENT DIRECTION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
IT'S
OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. IT'S -- I COULD GO ON FOR HOURS
ABOUT
IT'S -- I COULD GO ON FOR HOURS ABOUT THAT.
>>
ABOUT THAT. >> BUT YOU VOTED FOR BILL
CLINTON
>> BUT YOU VOTED FOR BILL CLINTON TWICE.
>>
CLINTON TWICE. >> I VOTED FOR BILL CLINTON
TWICE
>> I VOTED FOR BILL CLINTON TWICE AND THEN BECAME A SEVERE
CRITIC
TWICE AND THEN BECAME A SEVERE CRITIC OF THE CLINTONS AND THEN
VOTED
CRITIC OF THE CLINTONS AND THEN VOTED FOR RALPH NADER.
I'M
VOTED FOR RALPH NADER. I'M HOPING SOME DEMOCRAT WILL
COME
I'M HOPING SOME DEMOCRAT WILL COME TO BE AN ADEQUATE
PRESIDENTIAL
COME TO BE AN ADEQUATE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.
IT
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE
GOING
IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE WE'RE GOING TO GET ANYONE AT THE
PRESENT
GOING TO GET ANYONE AT THE PRESENT MOMENT BUT AT THE SAME
TIME,
PRESENT MOMENT BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I FIND THAT THE DEMOCRAT
PARTY
TIME, I FIND THAT THE DEMOCRAT PARTY HAS RUN OUT OF IDEAS
ITSELF.
ITS
ITSELF. ITS VERSION OF LIBERALISM IS
NOTHING
ITS VERSION OF LIBERALISM IS NOTHING BUT TAG LINES AND A
KIND
NOTHING BUT TAG LINES AND A KIND OF DIMINUTION OF A
REPUBLICAN
KIND OF DIMINUTION OF A REPUBLICAN OR CONSERVATIVE
POSITION
REPUBLICAN OR CONSERVATIVE POSITION THAT I THINK IS
REDUCTIVE
POSITION THAT I THINK IS REDUCTIVE AND JUST CAUSING AN
ENDLESS,
REDUCTIVE AND JUST CAUSING AN ENDLESS, INFLAMMATORY CULTURE
WAR
ENDLESS, INFLAMMATORY CULTURE WAR IN THIS COUNTRY.
>>
WAR IN THIS COUNTRY. >> FLASHBACK 37 YEARS, YOU'RE
10
>> FLASHBACK 37 YEARS, YOU'RE 10 YEARS OLD, AND IT SAYS IN
SOME
10 YEARS OLD, AND IT SAYS IN SOME OF THE ARTICLES ABOUT YOU
THAT
SOME OF THE ARTICLES ABOUT YOU THAT YOU KIND OF HAD -- YOU
CAME
THAT YOU KIND OF HAD -- YOU CAME OUT, YOU WERE A VERY QUIET
CHILD,
CAME OUT, YOU WERE A VERY QUIET CHILD, WHICH SOME PEOPLE
WATCHING
CHILD, WHICH SOME PEOPLE WATCHING THIS MIGHT BE VERY
SURPRISED
WATCHING THIS MIGHT BE VERY SURPRISED TO HEAR.
A
SURPRISED TO HEAR. A QUIET CHILD?
>>
A QUIET CHILD? >> YES, I THINK I WAS FAIRLY
SILENT.
I
SILENT. I WAS FAIRLY ACTIVE.
I
I WAS FAIRLY ACTIVE. I HAD A LOT OF PHYSICAL ENERGY
AND
I HAD A LOT OF PHYSICAL ENERGY AND WAS ALWAYS ROAMING AROUND
WILDLY
AND WAS ALWAYS ROAMING AROUND WILDLY OUTDOORS BUT I REMEMBER
ONCE
WILDLY OUTDOORS BUT I REMEMBER ONCE MY MOTHER WAS BRINGING ME
DOWN
ONCE MY MOTHER WAS BRINGING ME DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY FOR A
VISIT
DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY FOR A VISIT ON THE TRAIN AND SHE WAS
COMPLIMENTED
VISIT ON THE TRAIN AND SHE WAS COMPLIMENTED BY OTHER TRAIN
RIDERS
COMPLIMENTED BY OTHER TRAIN RIDERS FOR THE INCREDIBLE GOOD
MANNERS
RIDERS FOR THE INCREDIBLE GOOD MANNERS THAT THIS LITTLE GIRL
WEARING
MANNERS THAT THIS LITTLE GIRL WEARING WHITE GLOVES -- AND
THEN
WEARING WHITE GLOVES -- AND THEN I SORT OF EXPLODED.
BY
THEN I SORT OF EXPLODED. BY PUBERTY I EXPLODED IT'S A
CLASSIC
BY PUBERTY I EXPLODED IT'S A CLASSIC STORY OF A 1960'S
GENERATION
CLASSIC STORY OF A 1960'S GENERATION THAT I BELONGED TO.
>>
GENERATION THAT I BELONGED TO. >> WE HAVE SOME PICTURE HERE OF
YOU
>> WE HAVE SOME PICTURE HERE OF YOU IN SOME OF YOUR HALLOWEEN
COSTUMES
YOU IN SOME OF YOUR HALLOWEEN COSTUMES OF YOUTH.
MAYBE
COSTUMES OF YOUTH. MAYBE ITS UNUSUAL.
>>
MAYBE ITS UNUSUAL. >> HIGHLY UNUSUAL IN THE MIDDLE
OF
>> HIGHLY UNUSUAL IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 1 50 FOR LITTLE GIRLS TO
BE
OF THE 1 50 FOR LITTLE GIRLS TO BE DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS
MILITARY
BE DISGUISING THEMSELVES AS MILITARY OFFICERS.
IN
MILITARY OFFICERS. IN THIS CASE A ROMAN SOLDIER.
MY
IN THIS CASE A ROMAN SOLDIER. MY MOTHER AND I -- AND FATHER
CONSTRUCTED
MY MOTHER AND I -- AND FATHER CONSTRUCTED THAT COSTUME FOR
ME.
THEY
ME. THEY WOULD HAVE PREFERRED I HAD
BEEN
THEY WOULD HAVE PREFERRED I HAD BEEN SOME OTHER SEXUAL PERSONA
TO
BEEN SOME OTHER SEXUAL PERSONA TO BE BUT I WAS MADLY IN LOVE
WITH
TO BE BUT I WAS MADLY IN LOVE WITH THESE IMAGES OF HEROIC
MASCULINITY
WITH THESE IMAGES OF HEROIC MASCULINITY AT A TIME WHEN, YOU
KNOW,
MASCULINITY AT A TIME WHEN, YOU KNOW, ENDORSE DAY AND DEBBIE
REYNOLDS
KNOW, ENDORSE DAY AND DEBBIE REYNOLDS WERE BEING FOISTED ON
US
REYNOLDS WERE BEING FOISTED ON US WOMEN.
THAT'S
US WOMEN. THAT'S ME AS A TORADOR.
AND
THAT'S ME AS A TORADOR. AND I'M PROBABLY 6 YEARS OLD
THERE
AND I'M PROBABLY 6 YEARS OLD THERE AND MY MOTHER AND FATHER
CONSTRUCTED
THERE AND MY MOTHER AND FATHER CONSTRUCTED THAT COSTUME.
WE
CONSTRUCTED THAT COSTUME. WE HAD NO SWORD SO THAT'S MY
MOTHER
WE HAD NO SWORD SO THAT'S MY MOTHER AND FATHER'S UMBRELLA.
LIVING
MOTHER AND FATHER'S UMBRELLA. LIVING IN A SMALL FARMING TOWN
OF
LIVING IN A SMALL FARMING TOWN OF OXFORD, NEW YORK, WHERE MY
FATHER
OF OXFORD, NEW YORK, WHERE MY FATHER WAS TEACHING HIGH
SCHOOL.
>>
SCHOOL. >> WHERE DID THESE IDEAS COME
FROM
>> WHERE DID THESE IDEAS COME FROM FOR YOU TO DO THESE?
>>
FROM FOR YOU TO DO THESE? >> I DON'T KNOW.
SOME
>> I DON'T KNOW. SOME THINGS HAVE BEEN SURGING
IN
SOME THINGS HAVE BEEN SURGING IN ME SINCE A TINY CHILD.
THERE
IN ME SINCE A TINY CHILD. THERE I'M HAMLET.
WE'RE
THERE I'M HAMLET. WE'RE IN SYRACUSE.
THIS
WE'RE IN SYRACUSE. THIS IS PROBABLY, I DON'T KNOW,
8
THIS IS PROBABLY, I DON'T KNOW, 8 OR 9 YEARS OLD AT THIS POINT.
I
8 OR 9 YEARS OLD AT THIS POINT. I HAD ACTUALLY PRODUCED AND
DIRECTED
I HAD ACTUALLY PRODUCED AND DIRECTED A RATHER SHABBY
PRODUCTION
DIRECTED A RATHER SHABBY PRODUCTION OF HAMLET BASED ON
THE
PRODUCTION OF HAMLET BASED ON THE CLASSIC COMIC BOOKS IN MY
FOURTH
THE CLASSIC COMIC BOOKS IN MY FOURTH GRADE CLASS.
>>
FOURTH GRADE CLASS. >> WAS IT GOOD?
>>
>> WAS IT GOOD? >> NO.
THE
>> NO. THE HAMLET, I'M AFRAID KEPT
FORGETTING
THE HAMLET, I'M AFRAID KEPT FORGETTING HIS LINES AND SO IT
WAS
FORGETTING HIS LINES AND SO IT WAS KIND OF A FIASCO.
>>
WAS KIND OF A FIASCO. >> AND WHERE ARE YOU HERE?
WE'RE
>> AND WHERE ARE YOU HERE? WE'RE FAST FORWARDING A LITTLE
BIT.
YOU'RE
BIT. YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS PHOTO.
HERE
YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THIS PHOTO. HERE YOU GO.
>>
HERE YOU GO. >> THAT'S -- I'M IN A CLASSROOM
AT
>> THAT'S -- I'M IN A CLASSROOM AT -- THAT'S AT COLLEGE IN
1973.
I
1973. I HAVE MY KEITH RICHARDS SHAG
HAIRCUT.
I'M
HAIRCUT. I'M WEARING MY EDWARDIAN CUT
GREEN
I'M WEARING MY EDWARDIAN CUT GREEN JACKET, MY TRADEMARK OF
THAT
GREEN JACKET, MY TRADEMARK OF THAT ERA.
>>
THAT ERA. >> WHEN DID YOU FIRST DECIDE
THAT
>> WHEN DID YOU FIRST DECIDE THAT YOU WERE UNHAPPY WITH THE
WAY
THAT YOU WERE UNHAPPY WITH THE WAY THAT PEOPLE EXPRESSED
THEMSELVES
WAY THAT PEOPLE EXPRESSED THEMSELVES THROUGH THEIR
GENDER?
>>
GENDER? >> THE 1950'S WAS A TIME OF
GREAT
>> THE 1950'S WAS A TIME OF GREAT REPRESSION IN TERMS OF
SEX
GREAT REPRESSION IN TERMS OF SEX ROLES.
IT
SEX ROLES. IT WAS A VERY CONVENT WAY THAT
A
IT WAS A VERY CONVENT WAY THAT A GIRL WAS -- A VERY DEFINITE
WAY
A GIRL WAS -- A VERY DEFINITE WAY THAT A GIRL WAS SUPPOSED TO
BE.
MY
BE. MY FATHER ENCOURAGED ME TO
ASPIRE
MY FATHER ENCOURAGED ME TO ASPIRE TO WHATEVER I WANTED TO
DO.
HE
DO. HE TAUGHT ME TO DEFEND MYSELF
WITH
HE TAUGHT ME TO DEFEND MYSELF WITH MY FISTS IF NECESSARY BUT
MY
WITH MY FISTS IF NECESSARY BUT MY FATHER DID NOT RAISE ME IN
THE
MY FATHER DID NOT RAISE ME IN THE -- I THINK THE CONVENTIONAL
WAY
THE -- I THINK THE CONVENTIONAL WAY YOU WOULD EXPECT AN ITALIAN
AMERICAN
WAY YOU WOULD EXPECT AN ITALIAN AMERICAN IMMIGRANT FAMILY AS
MINE
AMERICAN IMMIGRANT FAMILY AS MINE WAS BUT THERE WAS
SOMETHING
MINE WAS BUT THERE WAS SOMETHING IN ME JUST WANTED TO
ACHIEVE,
SOMETHING IN ME JUST WANTED TO ACHIEVE, WANTED TO ACHIEVE FOR
WOMEN.
I
WOMEN. I WAS CONSTANTLY INDIGNANT
ABOUT
I WAS CONSTANTLY INDIGNANT ABOUT THE ROLE -- THE
SUBORDINATE
ABOUT THE ROLE -- THE SUBORDINATE ROLE, DIFFERENTIAL
ROLE
SUBORDINATE ROLE, DIFFERENTIAL ROLE ASSIGNED TO WOMEN.
ESPECIALLY
ROLE ASSIGNED TO WOMEN. ESPECIALLY THE NEED TO BE
POLITE.
THE
POLITE. THE LIKED THE WAY MEN COULD
SPEAK
THE LIKED THE WAY MEN COULD SPEAK OUT AND BE CHALLENGING
BUT
SPEAK OUT AND BE CHALLENGING BUT THE WOMEN WERE EXPECTED TO
HAVE
BUT THE WOMEN WERE EXPECTED TO HAVE SOFT FEMININE VOICES, THAT
KIND
HAVE SOFT FEMININE VOICES, THAT KIND OF A THING.
SO
KIND OF A THING. SO IT WAS JUST A CONSTANT CLASH
WITH
SO IT WAS JUST A CONSTANT CLASH WITH THE -- WITH GENDER ROLE
THROUGHOUT
WITH THE -- WITH GENDER ROLE THROUGHOUT THE 1950'S FOR ME.
THIS
THROUGHOUT THE 1950'S FOR ME. THIS IS WHY I IDENTIFY STRONGLY
WITH
THIS IS WHY I IDENTIFY STRONGLY WITH THE TRANSGENDER OF TODAY,
UNDERSTAND
WITH THE TRANSGENDER OF TODAY, UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY WENT
THROUGH.
ON
THROUGH. ON THE OTHER HAND, I NEVER HAD
ANY
ON THE OTHER HAND, I NEVER HAD ANY DESIRE TO CHANGE SEX.
I'VE
ANY DESIRE TO CHANGE SEX. I'VE EXPRESSED MY PROBLEMS WITH
SOCIALIZATION
I'VE EXPRESSED MY PROBLEMS WITH SOCIALIZATION THROUGH A --
ACHIEVEMENT
SOCIALIZATION THROUGH A -- ACHIEVEMENT THROUGH WRITING.
>>
ACHIEVEMENT THROUGH WRITING. >> WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE
TO
>> WELL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO TALK ABOUT, AND THAT'S TO
TALK
TO TALK ABOUT, AND THAT'S TO TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOKS.
WHAT
TALK ABOUT YOUR BOOKS. WHAT IS IT ABOUT -- YOU HAVE
SAID
WHAT IS IT ABOUT -- YOU HAVE SAID THAT THE PICTURE IS VERY
IMPORTANT
SAID THAT THE PICTURE IS VERY IMPORTANT FOR YOU IN TERMS OF
EXPLAINING
IMPORTANT FOR YOU IN TERMS OF EXPLAINING YOUR VIEWS TO
PEOPLE.
BUT
PEOPLE. BUT WHAT IS THE IT ABOUT THE
WRITTEN
BUT WHAT IS THE IT ABOUT THE WRITTEN WORD?
IS
WRITTEN WORD? IS THAT MORE IMPORTANT, LESS
IMPORTANT
IS THAT MORE IMPORTANT, LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE PICTURE?
WHAT'S
IMPORTANT THAN THE PICTURE? WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT?
>>
WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT? >> WELL, I FEEL I'M IN LOVE
WITH
>> WELL, I FEEL I'M IN LOVE WITH THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WHICH
IS
WITH THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE WHICH IS NEW TO MY FAMILY.
MY
IS NEW TO MY FAMILY. MY MOTHER WAS BORN IN ITALY AND
ALL
MY MOTHER WAS BORN IN ITALY AND ALL FOUR OF MY GRANDPARENTS SO
ENGLISH
ALL FOUR OF MY GRANDPARENTS SO ENGLISH IS NEW.
MY
ENGLISH IS NEW. MY PARENTS MADE THE DECISION TO
HAVE
MY PARENTS MADE THE DECISION TO HAVE ENGLISH SPOKEN ONLY IN THE
HOMES,
HAVE ENGLISH SPOKEN ONLY IN THE HOMES, AND THAT'S WHY I POSE
BILINGUAL
HOMES, AND THAT'S WHY I POSE BILINGUAL EDUCATION.
I
BILINGUAL EDUCATION. I BELIEVE IMMERSION IN ENGLISH
WHICH
I BELIEVE IMMERSION IN ENGLISH WHICH IS A VERY DIFFICULT
LANGUAGE.
SO
LANGUAGE. SO I'VE BEEN IN LOVE WITH
ENGLISH.
I
ENGLISH. I REMEMBER HEARING BRITISH
VOICES
I REMEMBER HEARING BRITISH VOICES ACTUALLY AND BEING
FASCINATED
VOICES ACTUALLY AND BEING FASCINATED BY MYSTERIOUS --
ALMOST
FASCINATED BY MYSTERIOUS -- ALMOST IMPERIOUS STATEMENTS
COMING
ALMOST IMPERIOUS STATEMENTS COMING OUT OF THE STATEMENTS OF
COUNTY
COMING OUT OF THE STATEMENTS OF COUNTY ALICE'S" WORLD AND
WANTING
COUNTY ALICE'S" WORLD AND WANTING TO SPEAK LIKE THAT.
I
WANTING TO SPEAK LIKE THAT. I FEEL AS IF I'VE BEEN STUDYING
ENGLISH
I FEEL AS IF I'VE BEEN STUDYING ENGLISH AS IF FROM THE OUTSIDE
MY
ENGLISH AS IF FROM THE OUTSIDE MY ENTIRE LIFE.
ALWAYS
MY ENTIRE LIFE. ALWAYS TAKEN NOTES ON ENGLISH,
ALWAYS
ALWAYS TAKEN NOTES ON ENGLISH, ALWAYS LOOKING UP WORDS.
ALWAYS
ALWAYS LOOKING UP WORDS. ALWAYS ASSEMBLING MATERIALS.
I
ALWAYS ASSEMBLING MATERIALS. I HAVE TO DO IT WITH ENGLISH.
NOW
I HAVE TO DO IT WITH ENGLISH. NOW I'M ALSO IN LOVE WITH THE
IMAGE,
NOW I'M ALSO IN LOVE WITH THE IMAGE, AND THAT I KNEW FROM THE
ITALIAN
IMAGE, AND THAT I KNEW FROM THE ITALIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, ST.
ANTHONY
ITALIAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, ST. ANTHONY CHURCH IN NEW YORK.
THE
ANTHONY CHURCH IN NEW YORK. THE STAINED GLASS WINDOWS AND
THE
THE STAINED GLASS WINDOWS AND THE STATUES OF ST. MICHAEL AND
ST.
THE STATUES OF ST. MICHAEL AND ST. LUCY.
THE
ST. LUCY. THE ICONIC FORM OF ALMOST
CHOREOGRAPHIC
THE ICONIC FORM OF ALMOST CHOREOGRAPHIC EXPRESSION OF THE
SAINTS
CHOREOGRAPHIC EXPRESSION OF THE SAINTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
WITH
SAINTS OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WITH EITHER THEIR WEAPONS OR
EMBLEMS.
ST.
EMBLEMS. ST. LUCY HOLDING OUT A PLATE
WITH
ST. LUCY HOLDING OUT A PLATE WITH EYEBALLS ON IT.
I
WITH EYEBALLS ON IT. I FOUND THAT VERY ODD, VERY
INTERESTING.
SO
INTERESTING. SO MY OLE INTEREST IN HOLLYWOOD
ACTUALLY
SO MY OLE INTEREST IN HOLLYWOOD ACTUALLY AND IN DANCERS AND IN
ACTORS
ACTUALLY AND IN DANCERS AND IN ACTORS IS COMING FROM WHAT I
PERCEIVED
ACTORS IS COMING FROM WHAT I PERCEIVED AS THE RITUALISM OF
THE
PERCEIVED AS THE RITUALISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
SO
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. SO THROUGHOUT MY CAREER EYE
TRIED
SO THROUGHOUT MY CAREER EYE TRIED TO BLEND THESE TWO
THINGS,
TRIED TO BLEND THESE TWO THINGS, MY LOVE OF LANGUAGE
WITH
THINGS, MY LOVE OF LANGUAGE WITH MY LOVE OF THE IMAGE.
>>
WITH MY LOVE OF THE IMAGE. >> WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO WRITE?
>>
>> WHO TAUGHT YOU HOW TO WRITE? >> I DON'T THINK ANYONE TAUGHT
ME
>> I DON'T THINK ANYONE TAUGHT ME HOW TO WRITE.
I
ME HOW TO WRITE. I JUST -- I THINK I TAUGHT
MYSELF
I JUST -- I THINK I TAUGHT MYSELF HOW TO WRITE BY --
WHENEVER
MYSELF HOW TO WRITE BY -- WHENEVER I WOULD FIND A PASSAGE
THAT
WHENEVER I WOULD FIND A PASSAGE THAT STRUCK ME AS UNUSUALLY
ELOQUENT
THAT STRUCK ME AS UNUSUALLY ELOQUENT OR INTERESTING, I
WOULD
ELOQUENT OR INTERESTING, I WOULD COPY IT OUT.
JUST
WOULD COPY IT OUT. JUST THAT MUSCULAR COPYING,
COPYING,
JUST THAT MUSCULAR COPYING, COPYING, I CAN THAT FOR YEARS,
EVER
COPYING, I CAN THAT FOR YEARS, EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN IN JUNIOR
HIGH
EVER SINCE I'VE BEEN IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL, COPYING OUT
PASSAGES,
HIGH SCHOOL, COPYING OUT PASSAGES, KEEPING NOTEBOOKS OF
PASSAGES
PASSAGES, KEEPING NOTEBOOKS OF PASSAGES AND JUST THAT COPYING
THROUGH
PASSAGES AND JUST THAT COPYING THROUGH AND TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND
THROUGH AND TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE WAY THE SENTENCE
WORKS.
SO
WORKS. SO TO ALL THE DIFFERENT VOICES
IN
SO TO ALL THE DIFFERENT VOICES IN ENGLISH ACTUALLY ARE IN MY
WRITING.
I
WRITING. I DON'T HAVE ONE VOICE.
PEOPLE
I DON'T HAVE ONE VOICE. PEOPLE THINK -- I CERTAINLY
HAVE
PEOPLE THINK -- I CERTAINLY HAVE A RECOGNIZABLE VOICE WHEN
I'M
HAVE A RECOGNIZABLE VOICE WHEN I'M SPEAKING BUT NOT WHEN I'M
WRITING.
THERE
WRITING. THERE ARE PROBABLY 100
DIFFERENT
THERE ARE PROBABLY 100 DIFFERENT VOICES THAT I HAVE
THAT
DIFFERENT VOICES THAT I HAVE THAT -- WHERE I'M IMITATING OR
COMBINING
THAT -- WHERE I'M IMITATING OR COMBINING OR -- IN AN
IMPROVISATIONAL
COMBINING OR -- IN AN IMPROVISATIONAL MANNER IN
WRITINGS
IMPROVISATIONAL MANNER IN WRITINGS THIS I'VE ADMIRED OVER
THE
WRITINGS THIS I'VE ADMIRED OVER THE YEARS.
>>
THE YEARS. >> WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR
THIS
>> WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS FOR THIS FIRST BOOK?
>>
THIS FIRST BOOK? >> "SEXUAL PERSONAE" IS AN
EXPANSION
>> "SEXUAL PERSONAE" IS AN EXPANSION OF MY DOCTORAL
DISSERTATION
EXPANSION OF MY DOCTORAL DISSERTATION AT YALE.
I
DISSERTATION AT YALE. I GOT MY DEGREE IN 1974, AND
THE
I GOT MY DEGREE IN 1974, AND THE -- PROBABLY, AND WAS WHERE
THE
THE -- PROBABLY, AND WAS WHERE THE SECOND TEXT WRTS W A
COLLEAGUE
THE SECOND TEXT WRTS W A COLLEAGUE OF MY FATHER'S HAD
GIVEN
COLLEAGUE OF MY FATHER'S HAD GIVEN ME IN 1963 AND THAT'S
WHEN
GIVEN ME IN 1963 AND THAT'S WHEN I TRANSFERRED MY INTEREST
--
WHEN I TRANSFERRED MY INTEREST -- BEFORE THAT I HAD WANTED TO
BE
-- BEFORE THAT I HAD WANTED TO BE AN ARCHAEOLOGIST OR I WAS
THINKING
BE AN ARCHAEOLOGIST OR I WAS THINKING OF PERHAPS GOING INTO
LITERACY
THINKING OF PERHAPS GOING INTO LITERACY -- SO MY IDEA OF
PRODUCING
LITERACY -- SO MY IDEA OF PRODUCING A MAMMOTH BOOK,
SOMETHING
PRODUCING A MAMMOTH BOOK, SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A
MONUMENT
SOMETHING THAT COULD BE A MONUMENT FOR -- IN TERMS OF
WOMEN'S
MONUMENT FOR -- IN TERMS OF WOMEN'S ACHIEVEMENT I FELT THAT
WOMEN
WOMEN'S ACHIEVEMENT I FELT THAT WOMEN DID NOT AIM HIGH ENOUGH.
I
WOMEN DID NOT AIM HIGH ENOUGH. I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING
MASSIVE
I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING MASSIVE FOR WOMEN, BY WOMEN.
I
MASSIVE FOR WOMEN, BY WOMEN. I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING
CRUSHING,
I WANTED TO DO SOMETHING CRUSHING, CRUSHING, OK, THAT ON
A
CRUSHING, CRUSHING, OK, THAT ON A KIND OF GRAND SCALE.
I
A KIND OF GRAND SCALE. I FEEL THAT MEN HAVE FOR TOO
LONG
I FEEL THAT MEN HAVE FOR TOO LONG IN HISTORY BEEN THE ONES
TO
LONG IN HISTORY BEEN THE ONES TO MAKE THE EPIC STATEMENTS OR
IN
TO MAKE THE EPIC STATEMENTS OR IN ROCK 'N' ROLL, AND I WAS
COMPLAINING
IN ROCK 'N' ROLL, AND I WAS COMPLAINING WHY IS IT LED
ZEPPELIN
COMPLAINING WHY IS IT LED ZEPPELIN WHO ARE GENIUSES,
GIANT
ZEPPELIN WHO ARE GENIUSES, GIANT OR CONTEST RAL SOUND?
WHY
GIANT OR CONTEST RAL SOUND? WHY IS IT THIS WOMEN WILL NOT
MAKE
WHY IS IT THIS WOMEN WILL NOT MAKE THIS BIG OBNOXIOUS, SORT
OF
MAKE THIS BIG OBNOXIOUS, SORT OF LIKE A MILITARY TANK WAY OF
CRUSHING
OF LIKE A MILITARY TANK WAY OF CRUSHING THE AUDIENCE?
THAT'S
CRUSHING THE AUDIENCE? THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DO.
THAT'S
THAT'S WHAT I WANTED TO DO. THAT'S ONLY HALF OF THE BOOK I
ACTUALLY
THAT'S ONLY HALF OF THE BOOK I ACTUALLY WROTE.
THERE
ACTUALLY WROTE. THERE WAS A SECOND VOLUME THAT
WAS
THERE WAS A SECOND VOLUME THAT WAS ON POPULAR CULTURE.
IT
WAS ON POPULAR CULTURE. IT WAS THOUSANDS OF PAGES LONG
THIS
IT WAS THOUSANDS OF PAGES LONG THIS MANUSCRIPT AND I'M VERY
GRATEFUL
THIS MANUSCRIPT AND I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO YALE PRESS FOR
HAVING
GRATEFUL TO YALE PRESS FOR HAVING TAKEN A CHANCE ON IT
WHEN
HAVING TAKEN A CHANCE ON IT WHEN SEVEN OTHER PUBLISHERS HAD
REJECTED
WHEN SEVEN OTHER PUBLISHERS HAD REJECTED IT.
>>
REJECTED IT. >> AND IS THAT WHEN HAROLD
BLOOM
>> AND IS THAT WHEN HAROLD BLOOM CAME INTO YOUR LIFE?
>>
BLOOM CAME INTO YOUR LIFE? >> HE WAS MY DISSERTATION
DIRECTOR
>> HE WAS MY DISSERTATION DIRECTOR IN GRADUATE SCHOOL.
HE
DIRECTOR IN GRADUATE SCHOOL. HE -- I HAD NOT STUDIED WITH
HIM
HE -- I HAD NOT STUDIED WITH HIM AT THE YALE GRADUATE SCHOOL
BUT
HIM AT THE YALE GRADUATE SCHOOL BUT HE HEARD, THROUGH THE
STUDENT
BUT HE HEARD, THROUGH THE STUDENT GRAPEVINE, WHAT I WAS
INTENDING
STUDENT GRAPEVINE, WHAT I WAS INTENDING TO WORK ON WHICH IS
THIS
INTENDING TO WORK ON WHICH IS THIS AREA OF SEXUAL AMBIGUITY
AND
THIS AREA OF SEXUAL AMBIGUITY AND THE WHOLE HISTORY OF
HUMANITIES.
HE
HUMANITIES. HE SUMMONED ME TO HIS OFFICE
AND
HE SUMMONED ME TO HIS OFFICE AND SAID TO ME, MY DEAR, I AM
THE
AND SAID TO ME, MY DEAR, I AM THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DIRECT
THAT
THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN DIRECT THAT DISSERTATION.
I
THAT DISSERTATION. I SAID, OH, OK, AND THERE BEGAN
ONE
I SAID, OH, OK, AND THERE BEGAN ONE OF THE GREAT, SEEMS TO ME,
COLLABORATIONS
ONE OF THE GREAT, SEEMS TO ME, COLLABORATIONS -- I OWE HAROLD
BLOOM
COLLABORATIONS -- I OWE HAROLD BLOOM SO MUCH, JUST FOR
BELIEVING
BLOOM SO MUCH, JUST FOR BELIEVING IN MY IDEAS,
BELIEVING
BELIEVING IN MY IDEAS, BELIEVING -- UNDERSTANDING
EVERYTHING
BELIEVING -- UNDERSTANDING EVERYTHING I WANTED TO DO AND
BEING
EVERYTHING I WANTED TO DO AND BEING MY SUPPORT THROUGH ALL
THOSE
BEING MY SUPPORT THROUGH ALL THOSE YEARS WHEN NO ONE
UNDERSTOOD.
A
UNDERSTOOD. A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS I THINK
UNDERSTOOD
A COUPLE OF MY FRIENDS I THINK UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS GOING TO
DO
UNDERSTOOD WHAT I WAS GOING TO DO BUT NO ONE ELSE DID.
AND
DO BUT NO ONE ELSE DID. AND TO PRODUCE THAT BOOK IN THE
FACE
AND TO PRODUCE THAT BOOK IN THE FACE OF MASSIVE REJECTION OF
EVERYTHING
FACE OF MASSIVE REJECTION OF EVERYTHING I EVER WROTE IN
TERMS
EVERYTHING I EVER WROTE IN TERMS OF THE PIECES OF THE
BOOK,
TERMS OF THE PIECES OF THE BOOK, IT JUST TOOK A LEVEL OF
PERSIST
BOOK, IT JUST TOOK A LEVEL OF PERSIST OR MANIA, I DON'T KNOW,
THAT
PERSIST OR MANIA, I DON'T KNOW, THAT I THINK FEW WOMEN HAVE.
>>
THAT I THINK FEW WOMEN HAVE. >> MARCH, 1991, WHAT WAS THE
IMPACT
>> MARCH, 1991, WHAT WAS THE IMPACT OF THIS COVER STORY ON
"NEW
IMPACT OF THIS COVER STORY ON "NEW YORK."
?
>>
? >> THERE WAS NO PUBLICITY, NO
ONE
>> THERE WAS NO PUBLICITY, NO ONE KNEW WHO ITSELF, I WAS
COMPLETELY
ONE KNEW WHO ITSELF, I WAS COMPLETELY UNKNOWN WORKING ON
AN
COMPLETELY UNKNOWN WORKING ON AN OBSCURE ART SCHOOL IN
PHILADELPHIA,
AN OBSCURE ART SCHOOL IN PHILADELPHIA, THE UNIVERSITY OF
THE
PHILADELPHIA, THE UNIVERSITY OF THE ARTS, AND FRANCESCA, A
SOPHISTICATED
THE ARTS, AND FRANCESCA, A SOPHISTICATED WRITER IN NEW
YORK
SOPHISTICATED WRITER IN NEW YORK WAS INTERESTED IN SEXUAL
PERSONA
YORK WAS INTERESTED IN SEXUAL PERSONA FOR THE DEFENSE OF ART.
SHE
PERSONA FOR THE DEFENSE OF ART. SHE FELT THAT, AS I DID, THAT
TOO
SHE FELT THAT, AS I DID, THAT TOO MUCH OF FEMINISM AND
ACADEMIC
TOO MUCH OF FEMINISM AND ACADEMIC STYLE WAS SUPPRESSING
THE
ACADEMIC STYLE WAS SUPPRESSING THE -- YOU KNOW, THE AESTHETIC
QUALITY
THE -- YOU KNOW, THE AESTHETIC QUALITY IN ART SO SHE WAS
ATTRACTED
QUALITY IN ART SO SHE WAS ATTRACTED TO MY BOOK AND SOUGHT
ME
ATTRACTED TO MY BOOK AND SOUGHT ME OUT AND ENDED UP AS THIS
COVER
ME OUT AND ENDED UP AS THIS COVER STORY WHERE PEOPLE SAW ME
FOR
COVER STORY WHERE PEOPLE SAW ME FOR THE FIRST TIME.
ON
FOR THE FIRST TIME. ON THIS COVER, I AM POSING WITH
MY
ON THIS COVER, I AM POSING WITH MY KEITH RICHARDS FACE.
THAT'S
MY KEITH RICHARDS FACE. THAT'S THE ONE THAT -- AND
THAT'S
THAT'S THE ONE THAT -- AND THAT'S IN THE ARMOR ROOM OF THE
PHILADELPHIA
THAT'S IN THE ARMOR ROOM OF THE PHILADELPHIA MUSEUM OF ART
>>
PHILADELPHIA MUSEUM OF ART >> THERE'S ARMOR IN THE BACK.
>>
>> THERE'S ARMOR IN THE BACK. >> WHICH IS MY MILITARY, MY
HALLOWEEN
>> WHICH IS MY MILITARY, MY HALLOWEEN BACKGROUND IS THERE.
SO
HALLOWEEN BACKGROUND IS THERE. SO THERE I WAS, I WAS TAKING
POSITIONS
SO THERE I WAS, I WAS TAKING POSITIONS THAT AT THE TIME WERE
HIGHLY
POSITIONS THAT AT THE TIME WERE HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL IN
FEMINISM,
HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL IN FEMINISM, BUT NOW PRACTICALLY
ALL
FEMINISM, BUT NOW PRACTICALLY ALL OF MY IDEAS ARE A PART OF
THE
ALL OF MY IDEAS ARE A PART OF THE CULTURAL LANDSCAPE, THANKS
TO
THE CULTURAL LANDSCAPE, THANKS TO A YOUNGER GENERATION OF
WOMEN
TO A YOUNGER GENERATION OF WOMEN THAT CAME THROUGH, WHO
AGREED
WOMEN THAT CAME THROUGH, WHO AGREED WITH ME.
I
AGREED WITH ME. I WAS TAKING A PRO SEX, PRO
POP,
I WAS TAKING A PRO SEX, PRO POP, PRO ROCK POSITION ABOUT
FEMINISM.
I
FEMINISM. I WAS SAYING WOMEN ARE NOT
VICTIMS,
I WAS SAYING WOMEN ARE NOT VICTIMS, ALL KIND OF THINGS NOW
THAT
VICTIMS, ALL KIND OF THINGS NOW THAT PEOPLE JUST ACCEPT BUT AT
THE
THAT PEOPLE JUST ACCEPT BUT AT THE TIME IT CREATED A STORM OF
CONTROVERSY.
>>
CONTROVERSY. >> WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT
GLORIA
>> WHAT WERE YOU SAYING ABOUT GLORIA STEINEM AT THIS TIME?
>>
GLORIA STEINEM AT THIS TIME? >> I ADMIRED HER WHEN SHE FIRST
CAME
>> I ADMIRED HER WHEN SHE FIRST CAME ON THE SCENE.
I
CAME ON THE SCENE. I THOUGHT SHE WAS A VERY GOOD,
VERY
I THOUGHT SHE WAS A VERY GOOD, VERY INTELLIGENT FACE FOR
FEMINISM
VERY INTELLIGENT FACE FOR FEMINISM BUT SHE HAD BEEN
DRAGGED
FEMINISM BUT SHE HAD BEEN DRAGGED INTO THE MOVEMENT FOR
BETTY
DRAGGED INTO THE MOVEMENT FOR BETTY FORD ASS AN.
SHE
BETTY FORD ASS AN. SHE WAS RUNNING AROUND MORNING
IN
SHE WAS RUNNING AROUND MORNING IN A PLASTIC INCREASE DOING A
BOOK
IN A PLASTIC INCREASE DOING A BOOK CALLED "THE BEACH BOOK" AT
THAT
BOOK CALLED "THE BEACH BOOK" AT THAT PERIOD SO I DON'T OWE
ANYTHING
THAT PERIOD SO I DON'T OWE ANYTHING TO GLORIA STEINEM.
I'M
ANYTHING TO GLORIA STEINEM. I'M SAYING THAT FEMINISM ADDS
IT
I'M SAYING THAT FEMINISM ADDS IT CO-HERED IN THE 1970 TURNED
AGAINST
IT CO-HERED IN THE 1970 TURNED AGAINST SEX, TURNED AGAINST MEN
--
AGAINST SEX, TURNED AGAINST MEN -- FOR EXAMPLE, GLORIA STEINEM
SAID
-- FOR EXAMPLE, GLORIA STEINEM SAID A WOMAN NEEDS A MAN LIKE A
FISH
SAID A WOMAN NEEDS A MAN LIKE A FISH NEEDS A BICYCLE.
NOW
FISH NEEDS A BICYCLE. NOW AT THE SAME TIME SHE WAS
NEVER
NOW AT THE SAME TIME SHE WAS NEVER SEEN WITHOUT A MAN IN
PARTIES
NEVER SEEN WITHOUT A MAN IN PARTIES IN NEW YORK.
I
PARTIES IN NEW YORK. I FOUND IT -- I THOUGHT IT WAS
A--
I FOUND IT -- I THOUGHT IT WAS A-- IT WAS APPALLING TO
INDOCTRINATE
A-- IT WAS APPALLING TO INDOCTRINATE YOUNG WOMEN WITH
AN
INDOCTRINATE YOUNG WOMEN WITH AN ANTI-MALE BIAS.
I
AN ANTI-MALE BIAS. I CAME OUT OF AN ITALIAN
CULTURE
I CAME OUT OF AN ITALIAN CULTURE WHERE STRONG MEN AND
STRONG
CULTURE WHERE STRONG MEN AND STRONG WOMEN, THE MEN WERE
FABULOUS,
STRONG WOMEN, THE MEN WERE FABULOUS, THE MEN COULD DO
ANYTHING.
FROM
ANYTHING. FROM EVERY GENERATION, MY
GRANDFATHER'S
FROM EVERY GENERATION, MY GRANDFATHER'S GENERATION, MY
UNCLES
GRANDFATHER'S GENERATION, MY UNCLES AND MY FATHER'S
GENERATION.
ANYTHING
GENERATION. ANYTHING WITH THEIR HANDS, THEY
WERE
ANYTHING WITH THEIR HANDS, THEY WERE MEN OF HONOR, OK, MEN OF
ETHICS.
SO
ETHICS. SO YOU HAVE MEN BEING IMPUGNED
AS
SO YOU HAVE MEN BEING IMPUGNED AS RACIST AND OPPRESSORS AND,
YOU
AS RACIST AND OPPRESSORS AND, YOU KNOW, IMPERIALISTS AND
BRUTALIZERS
YOU KNOW, IMPERIALISTS AND BRUTALIZERS AND RAPISTS AND
EVERYTHING
BRUTALIZERS AND RAPISTS AND EVERYTHING ELSE, SEEMED TO ME A
TERRIBLE
EVERYTHING ELSE, SEEMED TO ME A TERRIBLE WAY TO EDUCATE WOMEN.
>>
TERRIBLE WAY TO EDUCATE WOMEN. >> AND WHAT WAS THE BACKLASH
LIKE
>> AND WHAT WAS THE BACKLASH LIKE WHEN YOU WERE SAYING THIS
STUFF
LIKE WHEN YOU WERE SAYING THIS STUFF PUBLICLY IN FRONT OF THE
FEMMISTED?
>>
FEMMISTED? >> IN THE EARLY 1990'S --
PEOPLE
>> IN THE EARLY 1990'S -- PEOPLE WHO SAW -- PEOPLE WHO
WERE
PEOPLE WHO SAW -- PEOPLE WHO WERE THERE WILL REMEMBER --
BROWN
WERE THERE WILL REMEMBER -- BROWN UNIVERSITY IN 1992, 700
PEOPLE
BROWN UNIVERSITY IN 1992, 700 PEOPLE TURNED OUT, PROBABLY
HALF
PEOPLE TURNED OUT, PROBABLY HALF OF THEM WANTED TO KNOW WHO
I
HALF OF THEM WANTED TO KNOW WHO I WAS AND THEY'RE SCREAMING AND
THE
I WAS AND THEY'RE SCREAMING AND THE YELLING THAT WENT ON.
THE
THE YELLING THAT WENT ON. THE REASON -- UP TO THIS POINT,
OK,
THE REASON -- UP TO THIS POINT, OK, UP TO THIS POINT SUCH
CROWDS
OK, UP TO THIS POINT SUCH CROWDS TO HARASS THE SPEAKER,
THEY
CROWDS TO HARASS THE SPEAKER, THEY HAD WORKED ON PEOPLE.
IT
THEY HAD WORKED ON PEOPLE. IT DIDN'T WORK WITH ME, BECAUSE
--
IT DIDN'T WORK WITH ME, BECAUSE -- BECAUSE I AM A PERFORMER,
OK?
I
OK? I DO
OK? I DO IMPROV.
I
I DO IMPROV. I DO IMPROV.
SO
I DO IMPROV. SO I WASN'T UP THERE READING
SOME
SO I WASN'T UP THERE READING SOME PREPARED TEXT THAT THEY
COULD
SOME PREPARED TEXT THAT THEY COULD DISRUPT.
THEY
COULD DISRUPT. THEY WOULD THROW THINGS FROM
THE
THEY WOULD THROW THINGS FROM THE AUDIENCE, AND I WOULD
EMPLOY
THE AUDIENCE, AND I WOULD EMPLOY RIGHT BACK AT THEM.
I
EMPLOY RIGHT BACK AT THEM. I USED THINGS, DRAWN FROM FILMS
I
I USED THINGS, DRAWN FROM FILMS I HAD SEEN, ALL KINDS OF THINGS
AND
I HAD SEEN, ALL KINDS OF THINGS AND I KEPT THE AUDIENCE
LAUGHING.
IN
LAUGHING. IN FACT, THERE WAS -- PROBABLY
THE
IN FACT, THERE WAS -- PROBABLY THE MOST FAMOUS ONE IS WHEN I
GAVE
THE MOST FAMOUS ONE IS WHEN I GAVE A LECTURE AT M.I.T. IN
1991,
GAVE A LECTURE AT M.I.T. IN 1991, AND THE BOSTON POLICE HAD
TO
1991, AND THE BOSTON POLICE HAD TO BE CALLED OUT.
THOUSANDS
TO BE CALLED OUT. THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TURNED OUT.
PEOPLE
THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TURNED OUT. PEOPLE WHO WERE TIRED OF THE
POLITICAL
PEOPLE WHO WERE TIRED OF THE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS OF THE
1980'S,
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS OF THE 1980'S, AND WANTED SOMETHING
NEW.
BECAUSE
NEW. BECAUSE WHAT I STAND FOR -- I
STAND
BECAUSE WHAT I STAND FOR -- I STAND FOR ANTI-DOGMA,
ANTI-IDEOLOGY,
STAND FOR ANTI-DOGMA, ANTI-IDEOLOGY, THE -- A FREE
MIND
ANTI-IDEOLOGY, THE -- A FREE MIND AND A FREE VOICE.
THAT'S
MIND AND A FREE VOICE. THAT'S WHAT I STAND FOR.
I
THAT'S WHAT I STAND FOR. I AM NOT A PART OF ANY GROUP.
I
I AM NOT A PART OF ANY GROUP. I DON'T BELONG TO ANY CIRCLE
WHOSE
I DON'T BELONG TO ANY CIRCLE WHOSE IDEOLOGY I'M TRYING TO
PUT
WHOSE IDEOLOGY I'M TRYING TO PUT FORWARD.
>>
PUT FORWARD. >> YOU HAVE SAID THAT PROBABLY
THE
>> YOU HAVE SAID THAT PROBABLY THE MOST NOTORIOUS SENTENCE
THAT
THE MOST NOTORIOUS SENTENCE THAT YOU HAVE EVER WRITTEN IS
THIS
THAT YOU HAVE EVER WRITTEN IS THIS ONE -- IF CIVILIZATION HAD
BEEN
THIS ONE -- IF CIVILIZATION HAD BEEN LEFT IN FEMALE HANDS, WE
WOULD
BEEN LEFT IN FEMALE HANDS, WE WOULD STILL BE LIVING IN GRASS
HUTS.
IS
HUTS. IS THAT A SLAP IN THE FACE TO
WOMEN?
>>
WOMEN? >> NO.
WHAT
>> NO. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WOMEN
HAVE
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WOMEN HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO NATURE, HAVE
HAD
HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO NATURE, HAVE HAD AN ECOLOGICAL VIEW OF
NATURE
HAD AN ECOLOGICAL VIEW OF NATURE PERHAPS FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING
NATURE PERHAPS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND THAT WE WOULD
STILL
BEGINNING AND THAT WE WOULD STILL BE LIVING IN GRASS HUTS
MEANING
STILL BE LIVING IN GRASS HUTS MEANING WE WOULD BE IN
QUELLINGS
MEANING WE WOULD BE IN QUELLINGS MADE OF PERISHABLE
MATERIALS,
QUELLINGS MADE OF PERISHABLE MATERIALS, ORGANIZED AROUND THE
HART
MATERIALS, ORGANIZED AROUND THE HART -- AROUND THE HEARTH, THAT
THE
HART -- AROUND THE HEARTH, THAT THE WHOLE IMPULSE TOWARD
BUILDING
THE WHOLE IMPULSE TOWARD BUILDING IN STONE, TOWARD
BREAKING
BUILDING IN STONE, TOWARD BREAKING THROUGH THE BARRIERS,
THE
BREAKING THROUGH THE BARRIERS, THE BOUNDARY LINES OF THE
TRIBE,
THE BOUNDARY LINES OF THE TRIBE, OF THE FAMILY IS
ACTUALLY
TRIBE, OF THE FAMILY IS ACTUALLY COMING FROM MEN.
MEN
ACTUALLY COMING FROM MEN. MEN LIKE FORCE THEMSELVES OUT
THERE
MEN LIKE FORCE THEMSELVES OUT THERE AND DIE, EVEN
SLAUGHTERED.
I
SLAUGHTERED. I THINK IT'S MEN WHO HAVE
CAUSED,
I THINK IT'S MEN WHO HAVE CAUSED, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT
MIGRATIONS
CAUSED, YOU KNOW, THE GREAT MIGRATIONS IN HUMAN HISTORY,
THAT
MIGRATIONS IN HUMAN HISTORY, THAT HAVE EXPANDED, YOU KNOW,
THE
THAT HAVE EXPANDED, YOU KNOW, THE RANGE OF THE SPECIES.
THEY'RE
THE RANGE OF THE SPECIES. THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE ALWAYS
BUILDING
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO ARE ALWAYS BUILDING THE GREAT BUDGETS AND
MONUMENTS,
BUILDING THE GREAT BUDGETS AND MONUMENTS, RISK-TAKING,
TERRIBLE
MONUMENTS, RISK-TAKING, TERRIBLE RISKS.
SO
TERRIBLE RISKS. SO I THINK THAT THROUGHOUT
HISTORY
SO I THINK THAT THROUGHOUT HISTORY YOU'VE HAD THIS -- YOU
KNOW,
HISTORY YOU'VE HAD THIS -- YOU KNOW, THE KIND OF MAGNETIC
SYMBOLISM
KNOW, THE KIND OF MAGNETIC SYMBOLISM OF THE HEARTH THAT IS
ASSOCIATED
SYMBOLISM OF THE HEARTH THAT IS ASSOCIATED WITH WOMEN, AND I
THINK
ASSOCIATED WITH WOMEN, AND I THINK IT SEEMS QUITE NATURAL.
WOMEN,
THINK IT SEEMS QUITE NATURAL. WOMEN, WHEN THEY'RE PREGNANT OR
NURSING
WOMEN, WHEN THEY'RE PREGNANT OR NURSING BABIES, NEED TO BE
STILL.
YOU
STILL. YOU CAN'T HAVE -- I IDENTIFIED
WITH
YOU CAN'T HAVE -- I IDENTIFIED WITH THE AMAZONS, YOU KNOW,
WITH
WITH THE AMAZONS, YOU KNOW, WITH THEIR BOWS AND ARROWS WHO
RAN
WITH THEIR BOWS AND ARROWS WHO RAN WITH THE MEN.
WENT
RAN WITH THE MEN. WENT OUT ON THE HUNTING
EXPEDITIONS
WENT OUT ON THE HUNTING EXPEDITIONS AND BROUGHT BACK
THE
EXPEDITIONS AND BROUGHT BACK THE MEAT AND DID ALL THE DIRTY
WORK.
>>
WORK. >> 1990 AGAIN THIS, WOULD HAVE
BEEN
>> 1990 AGAIN THIS, WOULD HAVE BEEN THE YEAR THAT "SEXUAL
PERSONAE"
BEEN THE YEAR THAT "SEXUAL PERSONAE" CAME OUT IN HARD
BACK.
YOU
BACK. YOU WERE WRITING IN "THE NEW
YORK
YOU WERE WRITING IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" ABOUT MADONNA.
>>
YORK TIMES" ABOUT MADONNA. >> YES.
>>
>> YES. >> AND YOU WROTE THAT SHE WAS
THE
>> AND YOU WROTE THAT SHE WAS THE FUTURE OF FEMINISM.
>>
THE FUTURE OF FEMINISM. >> THE FIRST ON.
ED
>> THE FIRST ON. ED PIECE I WROTE WAS THIS
DEFENSE
ED PIECE I WROTE WAS THIS DEFENSE OF MADONNA AT THE END
OF
DEFENSE OF MADONNA AT THE END OF 1990 WHERE PEOPLE KIND OF
FIRST
OF 1990 WHERE PEOPLE KIND OF FIRST REALIZED WHO I WAS AND AT
THE
FIRST REALIZED WHO I WAS AND AT THE END OF THE ARTICLE I SAID
MADONNA
THE END OF THE ARTICLE I SAID MADONNA IS THE FUTURE OF
FEMINISM.
NOW
FEMINISM. NOW THIS WAS IN 1990.
PEOPLE
NOW THIS WAS IN 1990. PEOPLE SAID THIS IS COMPLETELY
MAD.
FEMMENISTS
MAD. FEMMENISTS WROTE IN, THIS IS
TERRIBLE,
FEMMENISTS WROTE IN, THIS IS TERRIBLE, THIS IS AWFUL.
SHE
TERRIBLE, THIS IS AWFUL. SHE PROSTITUTES THE IMAGE OF
WOMEN,
SHE PROSTITUTES THE IMAGE OF WOMEN, ET CETERA, BUT IT TURNED
OUT
WOMEN, ET CETERA, BUT IT TURNED OUT TO BE ACCURATE BECAUSE A
WHOLE
OUT TO BE ACCURATE BECAUSE A WHOLE YOUNGER WOMEN -- YOUNGER
GENERATION
WHOLE YOUNGER WOMEN -- YOUNGER GENERATION OF WOMEN CAME
FORWARD,
GENERATION OF WOMEN CAME FORWARD, EMBRACED FASHION AND
BEAUTY
FORWARD, EMBRACED FASHION AND BEAUTY AND THREW OUT ALL THAT
ANTI-MALE,
BEAUTY AND THREW OUT ALL THAT ANTI-MALE, ANTI-PORNOGRAPHY
KINDS
ANTI-MALE, ANTI-PORNOGRAPHY KINDS OF OBSESSION OF THE
1980'S
KINDS OF OBSESSION OF THE 1980'S FEMINISM OF KATHERINE
MCKINNOM.
WHEN
MCKINNOM. WHEN I WAS SAYING IN THE 19
90'S
WHEN I WAS SAYING IN THE 19 90'S THAT "CHARLIE'S ANGELS"
HAD
90'S THAT "CHARLIE'S ANGELS" HAD BEEN PART OF MOVING
FORWARD,
HAD BEEN PART OF MOVING FORWARD, OR I LOVED THE JAMES
BOND
FORWARD, OR I LOVED THE JAMES BOND GIRLS WHO FEMINISTS
THOUGHT
BOND GIRLS WHO FEMINISTS THOUGHT OF AS SEXISTS.
WELL,
THOUGHT OF AS SEXISTS. WELL, HERE WE ARE OVER A DECADE
LATER
WELL, HERE WE ARE OVER A DECADE LATER AND "CHARLIE'S ANGELS" IS
IN
LATER AND "CHARLIE'S ANGELS" IS IN REMAKES, THE BONDS GIRLS
HAVE
IN REMAKES, THE BONDS GIRLS HAVE DOCUMENTARIES ABOUT THEM
ON
HAVE DOCUMENTARIES ABOUT THEM ON CABLE TV, SO I FEEL AS
THOUGH
ON CABLE TV, SO I FEEL AS THOUGH -- I FEEL LIKE IT'S A
PARADISE.
ALL
PARADISE. ALL THE THINGS PEOPLE WERE
TRYING
ALL THE THINGS PEOPLE WERE TRYING TO LYNCH ME FOR, THOSE
ARGUMENTS
TRYING TO LYNCH ME FOR, THOSE ARGUMENTS ARE OVER AND THE
YOUNGER
ARGUMENTS ARE OVER AND THE YOUNGER WOMEN HAVE WON.
>>
YOUNGER WOMEN HAVE WON. >> HAVE THEY ALSO WON ON THE
ISSUE
>> HAVE THEY ALSO WON ON THE ISSUE WHERE YOU WROTE IN NEWS
DAY
ISSUE WHERE YOU WROTE IN NEWS DAY ABOUT DATE RAPE.
YOU
DAY ABOUT DATE RAPE. YOU SAID IT SHOWS FEMINISM
HITTING
YOU SAID IT SHOWS FEMINISM HITTING THE WALL OF ITS OWN
BROKEN
HITTING THE WALL OF ITS OWN BROKEN PROMISES.
>>
BROKEN PROMISES. >> NOW THAT -- MY ESSAY FROM
NEWS
>> NOW THAT -- MY ESSAY FROM NEWS DAY EARLY 1991 IS PROBABLY
ONE
NEWS DAY EARLY 1991 IS PROBABLY ONE OF MY REPROWLSED PIECES OF
WRITING.
>>
WRITING. >> YOU HAVE IT IN SEX, -- YOU
HAVE
>> YOU HAVE IT IN SEX, -- YOU HAVE IT IN "SEX, ART, AND
AMERICAN
HAVE IT IN "SEX, ART, AND AMERICAN CULTURE."
>>
AMERICAN CULTURE." >> YES.
IT'S
>> YES. IT'S IN COLLEGE READERS, IN
COMPOSITION
IT'S IN COLLEGE READERS, IN COMPOSITION TEXT, AND THE
REASON
COMPOSITION TEXT, AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS TEACHERS
HAVE
REASON FOR THAT IS TEACHERS HAVE FOUND THAT IT STIMULATES
DISCUSSION
HAVE FOUND THAT IT STIMULATES DISCUSSION AMONG THE STUDENTS.
WHAT
DISCUSSION AMONG THE STUDENTS. WHAT I'M SAYING IN THAT ARTICLE
IS
WHAT I'M SAYING IN THAT ARTICLE IS THAT WOMEN MUST TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY
IS THAT WOMEN MUST TAKE RESPONSIBILITY IF THEY ARE
EMANCIPATED
RESPONSIBILITY IF THEY ARE EMANCIPATED FOR THEIR OWN
BEHAVIOR
EMANCIPATED FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR IN SOCIAL
RELATIONSHIPS,
BEHAVIOR IN SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS, THAT WE HAVE TO
GET
RELATIONSHIPS, THAT WE HAVE TO GET BEYOND THE PERIOD OF THE
CHAPERONE,
GET BEYOND THE PERIOD OF THE CHAPERONE, WE HAVE TO GET
BEYOND
CHAPERONE, WE HAVE TO GET BEYOND THE BROTHER WHO WILL
COME
BEYOND THE BROTHER WHO WILL COME AND PUNCH OUT YOUR DATE
FOR
COME AND PUNCH OUT YOUR DATE FOR YOU.
I
FOR YOU. I FOUND THAT THE FEMINISM OF
THE
I FOUND THAT THE FEMINISM OF THE 1980'S AND EARLY 1990'S WAS
ASKING
THE 1980'S AND EARLY 1990'S WAS ASKING MALE AUTHORITY FIGURES
BACK
ASKING MALE AUTHORITY FIGURES BACK INTO SEX.
THAT
BACK INTO SEX. THAT THIS RUNNING TO THE
AUTHORITY
THAT THIS RUNNING TO THE AUTHORITY FIGURE COMMON -- AND
PUNISH
AUTHORITY FIGURE COMMON -- AND PUNISH HIM FOR WHAT HE DID ON
THE
PUNISH HIM FOR WHAT HE DID ON THE DATE.
I
THE DATE. I FELT THIS A STRONG WOMAN
SHOULD
I FELT THIS A STRONG WOMAN SHOULD BE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE
HER
SHOULD BE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE HER OWN SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS
AND
HER OWN SOCIAL RELATIONSHIPS AND BE READY TO DEFEND HERSELF.
I
AND BE READY TO DEFEND HERSELF. I SAID, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT
MADONNA.
I
MADONNA. I SAID, YOU KNOW, I SAID IF
YOU'RE
I SAID, YOU KNOW, I SAID IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRESS LIKE
MADONNA,
YOU'RE GOING TO DRESS LIKE MADONNA, YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT
TO
MADONNA, YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO DRESS LIKE MADONNA BUT IF
YOU'RE
TO DRESS LIKE MADONNA BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO DRESS LIKE
MADONNA
YOU'RE GOING TO DRESS LIKE MADONNA AT 3:00 A.M., YOU'RE
ADVERTISING,
MADONNA AT 3:00 A.M., YOU'RE ADVERTISING, YOU BETTER BE
READY
ADVERTISING, YOU BETTER BE READY TO SELL.
THAT
READY TO SELL. THAT WAS THE POINT I'M MAKING,
THAT
THAT WAS THE POINT I'M MAKING, THAT THE WAY YOU INCREASE AND
THE
THAT THE WAY YOU INCREASE AND THE WAY YOU BEHAVE IS ACTUALLY
--
THE WAY YOU BEHAVE IS ACTUALLY -- THESE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES
THAT
-- THESE SUBLIMINAL MESSAGES THAT ARE BELOW THE LEVEL OF YES
OR
THAT ARE BELOW THE LEVEL OF YES OR NO IN SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS.
I'M
OR NO IN SEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS. I'M SAYING TO WOMEN DO NOT PUT
YOURSELF
I'M SAYING TO WOMEN DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN POSITIONS FROM
WHICH
YOURSELF IN POSITIONS FROM WHICH YOU HAVE TO BE RESCUED.
FREE
WHICH YOU HAVE TO BE RESCUED. FREE WOMEN MUST BE READY TO
DEFEND
FREE WOMEN MUST BE READY TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
NOW
DEFEND THEMSELVES. NOW THAT AT THE TIME WAS A
RADICAL
NOW THAT AT THE TIME WAS A RADICAL VIEW, BUT NOW, AGAIN, I
THINK
RADICAL VIEW, BUT NOW, AGAIN, I THINK THAT IT'S SEEN AS THE
SENSIBLE
THINK THAT IT'S SEEN AS THE SENSIBLE VIEW.
>>
SENSIBLE VIEW. >> AND DO YOU FEEL THAT TODAY?
ARE
>> AND DO YOU FEEL THAT TODAY? ARE YOU READY TO -- WHEN YOU GO
OUT
ARE YOU READY TO -- WHEN YOU GO OUT TO SUPPORT YOURSELF, TO
DEFEND
OUT TO SUPPORT YOURSELF, TO DEFEND YOURSELF EVEN
PHYSICALLY?
>>
PHYSICALLY? >> WELL, I FEEL THAT NO ONE HAS
THE
>> WELL, I FEEL THAT NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT OR -- TO PUT
HIS
THE RIGHT TO PUT OR -- TO PUT HIS OR HER HAND ON YOU WITHOUT
YOUR
HIS OR HER HAND ON YOU WITHOUT YOUR PERMISSION.
YOUR
YOUR PERMISSION. YOUR THE TOTAL RULE OF YOUR OWN
BODY.
IF
BODY. IF YOU SAY NO AT ANY STAGE THE
PERSON
IF YOU SAY NO AT ANY STAGE THE PERSON MUST STOP.
NEVERTHELESS,
PERSON MUST STOP. NEVERTHELESS, THERE ARE VERY
CRAZY
NEVERTHELESS, THERE ARE VERY CRAZY PEOPLE OUT THERE.
THERE
CRAZY PEOPLE OUT THERE. THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST
MENTALLY
THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE JUST MENTALLY DISTURBED.
I
MENTALLY DISTURBED. I ALWAYS SAY, LIKE TED BUNDY,
THE
I ALWAYS SAY, LIKE TED BUNDY, THE MURDERER WAS A CHARMING
MAN.
THAT'S
MAN. THAT'S THE PROBLEM TODAY WITH
ALL
THAT'S THE PROBLEM TODAY WITH ALL THIS SORT OF STRANGER
DATING.
WOMEN
DATING. WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE PUTTING
THEMSELVES
WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE PUTTING THEMSELVES UNDER THE CONTROL OF
STRANGERS.
WOMEN
STRANGERS. WOMEN HAVE TO BE -- YOU HAVE TO
BE
WOMEN HAVE TO BE -- YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE THAT WITH FREEDOM,
WITH
BE AWARE THAT WITH FREEDOM, WITH EMANCIPATION COMES
RESPONSIBILITIES.
>>
RESPONSIBILITIES. >> CAMILLE PAGLIA DECIDED TO BE
WITH
>> CAMILLE PAGLIA DECIDED TO BE WITH US FOR THREE HOURS THIS
AFTERNOON.
WE
AFTERNOON. WE THANK HER FOR THAT AND WE'RE
GOING
WE THANK HER FOR THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO OPEN UP OUR PHONE
LINES.
HERE'S
LINES. HERE'S HOW YOU CAN JOIN IN.
202-585-3890
HERE'S HOW YOU CAN JOIN IN. 202-585-3890 IF YOU LIVE IN THE
EASTERN
202-585-3890 IF YOU LIVE IN THE EASTERN TIME ZONE.
202-585-3891
EASTERN TIME ZONE. 202-585-3891 IF YOU LIVE IN THE
MOUNTAIN
202-585-3891 IF YOU LIVE IN THE MOUNTAIN TIME ZONE.
YOU
MOUNTAIN TIME ZONE. YOU CAN ALSO EMAIL US.
--
AND
-- AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY
EMAILED
AND SOME PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY EMAILED IN QUESTIONS.
I'M
EMAILED IN QUESTIONS. I'M JUST GOING TO DIG INTO
THEM.
THIS
THEM. THIS ONE BY ANNE MARIE MCMAHON
FROM
THIS ONE BY ANNE MARIE MCMAHON FROM CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY ASKS
WHAT
FROM CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY ASKS WHAT YOUR TAKE IS ON ANNE
COULTER?
>>
COULTER? >> WELL, I THINK SHE HAS A
BRILLIANT
>> WELL, I THINK SHE HAS A BRILLIANT MIND.
I
BRILLIANT MIND. I LOVE TO WATCH HER TRASH ALL
THOSE
I LOVE TO WATCH HER TRASH ALL THOSE GENTEEL LADIES ON THE --
ON
THOSE GENTEEL LADIES ON THE -- ON NETWORK TV WHEN SHE COMES
ON.
SHE'S
ON. SHE'S UNCONTAINABLE.
ON
SHE'S UNCONTAINABLE. ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO FEEL
THAT
ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO FEEL THAT SHE SHOULD TAKE MORE TIME
WITH
THAT SHE SHOULD TAKE MORE TIME WITH HER WRITTEN MATERIALS.
I
WITH HER WRITTEN MATERIALS. I THINK THAT THERE'S AN
INFLAMMATORY
I THINK THAT THERE'S AN INFLAMMATORY AND PERHAPS
CARELESS
INFLAMMATORY AND PERHAPS CARELESS WAY THAT THE BOOKS
HAVE
CARELESS WAY THAT THE BOOKS HAVE BEEN ASSEMBLED THAT HAVE
ALLOWED
HAVE BEEN ASSEMBLED THAT HAVE ALLOWED HER OPPONENTS TO
CRITICIZE
ALLOWED HER OPPONENTS TO CRITICIZE HER AND DISMISS HER
WORK.
SO
WORK. SO I WISH THAT SHE -- ACTUALLY
I
SO I WISH THAT SHE -- ACTUALLY I WISH THAT SHE WERE A COLLEGE
TEACHER.
I
TEACHER. I WISH THAT SHE WERE MORE A
PART
I WISH THAT SHE WERE MORE A PART OF THE INSTITUTIONAL
SETTING.
>>
SETTING. >> THIS QUESTION ASKS, WHAT
IRBIL
>> THIS QUESTION ASKS, WHAT IRBIL -- ASKS DO YOU THINK THAT
PRESIDENT
IRBIL -- ASKS DO YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT CLINTON WILL EVER BE
PRESIDENT?
>>
PRESIDENT? >> I DON'T BUT I HOPE THAT
HILLARY
>> I DON'T BUT I HOPE THAT HILLARY WILL RUN.
MY
HILLARY WILL RUN. MY HISTORY WITH HILLARY IS A
LONG
MY HISTORY WITH HILLARY IS A LONG ONE.
I
LONG ONE. I WAS SITTING ON THE PHIL
DONAHUE
I WAS SITTING ON THE PHIL DONAHUE SHOW IN 1972 DEBATING
ON
DONAHUE SHOW IN 1972 DEBATING ON THE VERY DAY THAT HILLARY ON
THE
ON THE VERY DAY THAT HILLARY ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL MADE HER
INFAMOUS
THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL MADE HER INFAMOUS REMARK, WELL, I COULD
HAVE
INFAMOUS REMARK, WELL, I COULD HAVE STAYED HOME AND BAKED
COOKIES.
SO
COOKIES. SO DONAHUE RAN THIS TAPE FOR US
AND
SO DONAHUE RAN THIS TAPE FOR US AND IT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT
SUSAN
AND IT WAS THE ONLY THING THAT SUSAN AND I AGREED ON, WE BOTH
ADMIRED
SUSAN AND I AGREED ON, WE BOTH ADMIRED HILLARY VERY MUCH.
WE
ADMIRED HILLARY VERY MUCH. WE THOUGHT THIS IS FABULOUS.
A
WE THOUGHT THIS IS FABULOUS. A WOMAN OF THE 1960'S
GENERATION
A WOMAN OF THE 1960'S GENERATION AND, YOU KNOW, I
VOTED
GENERATION AND, YOU KNOW, I VOTED FOR THE CLINTONS.
THEN
VOTED FOR THE CLINTONS. THEN I BECAME SO DISILLUSIONED
WITH
THEN I BECAME SO DISILLUSIONED WITH THE CLINTONS AND WROTE A
NOTORIOUS
WITH THE CLINTONS AND WROTE A NOTORIOUS COVER STORY FOR THE
NEW
NOTORIOUS COVER STORY FOR THE NEW REPUBLICAN IN 1996 CALLED
"ICE
NEW REPUBLICAN IN 1996 CALLED "ICE QUEEN DRAG QUEEN" THAT
CREATED
"ICE QUEEN DRAG QUEEN" THAT CREATED AN ENORMOUS STORM AND
THEN
CREATED AN ENORMOUS STORM AND THEN I THINK MY LIBERALS CAME
TO
THEN I THINK MY LIBERALS CAME TO MY VIEW, BECAME MORE
SUSPICIOUS
TO MY VIEW, BECAME MORE SUSPICIOUS OF HILLARY BUT I HAD
A
SUSPICIOUS OF HILLARY BUT I HAD A TROW.
PED
A TROW. PED WHEN I REVIEWED HER NEW
BOOK
PED WHEN I REVIEWED HER NEW BOOK FOR "THE TIMES" IN LONDON
RECENTLY
BOOK FOR "THE TIMES" IN LONDON RECENTLY AND I FELT THAT IT WAS
A
RECENTLY AND I FELT THAT IT WAS A CREDIBLE STATEMENT THAT -- OF
THE
A CREDIBLE STATEMENT THAT -- OF THE CONTINUITY OF HER THINKING,
ABOUT
THE CONTINUITY OF HER THINKING, ABOUT SOCIAL POLICY FROM LONG
BEFORE
ABOUT SOCIAL POLICY FROM LONG BEFORE SHE MET BILL CLINTON.
I
BEFORE SHE MET BILL CLINTON. I FELT THAT EVEN IF SHE -- YOU
KNOW,
I FELT THAT EVEN IF SHE -- YOU KNOW, I COULD HEAR HER VOICE,
AND
KNOW, I COULD HEAR HER VOICE, AND EVEN IF OTHERS HELPED HER
WITH
AND EVEN IF OTHERS HELPED HER WITH THE BOOK, I THOUGHT THIS
IS
WITH THE BOOK, I THOUGHT THIS IS A WOMAN WHO KNOWS HOW TO
HURRY
IS A WOMAN WHO KNOWS HOW TO HURRY A GOOD STAFF BUT THAT IS
A
HURRY A GOOD STAFF BUT THAT IS A WELL PUT TOGETHER BOOK.
THAT
A WELL PUT TOGETHER BOOK. THAT BOOK IS SELLING AND
SELLING.
IT
SELLING. IT DOESN'T JUST SELL THROUGH
PARTICULAR.
PEOPLE
PARTICULAR. PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING THE BOOKS
AND
PEOPLE ARE ENJOYING THE BOOKS AND THE PICTURES.
SHE
AND THE PICTURES. SHE IMMEDIATE TO RUN BUT I
WOULD
SHE IMMEDIATE TO RUN BUT I WOULD PREFER A DIANNE FEINSTEIN
STEIN.
I'VE
STEIN. I'VE ADMIRED HER.
SHE'S
I'VE ADMIRED HER. SHE'S MATURE, STEADY, SHE'S
DEEPLY
SHE'S MATURE, STEADY, SHE'S DEEPLY INFORMED IN INTELLIGENCE
ISSUES
DEEPLY INFORMED IN INTELLIGENCE ISSUES ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
SECURITY
ISSUES ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SECURITY ISSUES AND SO ON.
I
SECURITY ISSUES AND SO ON. I DO WISH SHE WERE RUNNING FOR
PRESIDENT.
>>
PRESIDENT. >> NOW YOU DID SAY IN A "NEWS
DAY"
>> NOW YOU DID SAY IN A "NEWS DAY" QUOTE.
THIS
DAY" QUOTE. THIS IS MAYBE MORE ABOUT BILL
CLINTON
THIS IS MAYBE MORE ABOUT BILL CLINTON THAN HILLARY.
ANYONE
CLINTON THAN HILLARY. ANYONE WHO STAYED MARRIED TO
HIM
ANYONE WHO STAYED MARRIED TO HIM DESERVES WHAT SHE GETS.
>>
HIM DESERVES WHAT SHE GETS. >> BY THAT I MEAN I DON'T CARE
ABOUT
>> BY THAT I MEAN I DON'T CARE ABOUT THEIR MARRIAGE.
I
ABOUT THEIR MARRIAGE. I REALLY DON'T CARE WHETHER
HILLARY
I REALLY DON'T CARE WHETHER HILLARY STAYS HEARD TO BILL OR
NOT.
THAT'S
NOT. THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO ME.
I
THAT'S IRRELEVANT TO ME. I BELIEVE IN PRIVATE BEHAVIOR
IN
I BELIEVE IN PRIVATE BEHAVIOR IN THE PRIVATE REALM BUT IN THE
PUBLIC
IN THE PRIVATE REALM BUT IN THE PUBLIC REALM IS WHERE WOMEN
NEED
PUBLIC REALM IS WHERE WOMEN NEED TO ACHIEVE SO I DON'T CARE
WHAT
NEED TO ACHIEVE SO I DON'T CARE WHAT GOES ON, I DON'T CARE IF
THE
WHAT GOES ON, I DON'T CARE IF THE CROCKERY IS FLYING, LAMPS
ARE
THE CROCKERY IS FLYING, LAMPS ARE FLYING.
I
ARE FLYING. I DON'T CARE.
I'M
I DON'T CARE. I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT
HILLARY'S
I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT HILLARY'S BEHAVIOR IN THE
PUBLIC
HILLARY'S BEHAVIOR IN THE PUBLIC REALM.
AND
PUBLIC REALM. AND HERE I HAVE TO SAY, YOU
KNOW,
AND HERE I HAVE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, I WANT HER TO NOT BE SO
INSULATED
KNOW, I WANT HER TO NOT BE SO INSULATED BY, YOU KNOW,
SECURITY
INSULATED BY, YOU KNOW, SECURITY GUARDS AND PARTICULAR.
SHE'S
SECURITY GUARDS AND PARTICULAR. SHE'S ALWAYS ROLLING IN THIS
KIND
SHE'S ALWAYS ROLLING IN THIS KIND OF COCOON, AND SHE DOESN'T
REALLY
KIND OF COCOON, AND SHE DOESN'T REALLY DEAL, ENGAGE WITH THE
PEOPLE.
I
PEOPLE. I THINK THAT'S WHAT SHE'S
MISSING.
I
MISSING. I JUST FAIL TO SEE HOW SHE'S
GOING
I JUST FAIL TO SEE HOW SHE'S GOING TO WIN MANY PRIMARIES
ASIDE
GOING TO WIN MANY PRIMARIES ASIDE FROM THE NORTHEAST AND
THE
ASIDE FROM THE NORTHEAST AND THE NORTHWEST COAST.
SHE
THE NORTHWEST COAST. SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE
OF
SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE EXPERIENCE OF JUST GOING OUT AND -- IN
THAT
OF JUST GOING OUT AND -- IN THAT GRUELING WAY ON THE
CAMPAIGN
THAT GRUELING WAY ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND MINGLING
WITH
CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND MINGLING WITH PEOPLE IN AN
IMPROVISATIONAL
WITH PEOPLE IN AN IMPROVISATIONAL MANNER.
>>
IMPROVISATIONAL MANNER. >> YOU DON'T HAVE A SECURITY
GUARD
>> YOU DON'T HAVE A SECURITY GUARD BUT HOW DO YOU GUARD YOUR
OWN
GUARD BUT HOW DO YOU GUARD YOUR OWN PRIVACY?
>>
OWN PRIVACY? >> I AM AN EXTREMELY PRIVATE
PERSON.
PEOPLE
PERSON. PEOPLE MAY SEE ME ON PEOPLE,
BUT
PEOPLE MAY SEE ME ON PEOPLE, BUT I ABSOLUTELY VALUE MY
PRIVACY
BUT I ABSOLUTELY VALUE MY PRIVACY ABOVE ALL.
I'M
PRIVACY ABOVE ALL. I'M NOT -- I DON'T SCHMOOZE.
I'M
I'M NOT -- I DON'T SCHMOOZE. I'M NOT OUT AT FANCY EVENTS,
MOVIE
I'M NOT OUT AT FANCY EVENTS, MOVIE PREMIERES, ALWAYS BEING
INVITED
MOVIE PREMIERES, ALWAYS BEING INVITED TO ALL KINDS OF THINGS
--
INVITED TO ALL KINDS OF THINGS -- I JUST DON'T GO THERE.
>>
-- I JUST DON'T GO THERE. >> WHY?
>>
>> WHY? >> I TRY -- I FEEL I'M A
THINKER
>> I TRY -- I FEEL I'M A THINKER AND WRITER AND TEACHER
AND
THINKER AND WRITER AND TEACHER AND I NEED TO PRESERVE MY
ENERGY
AND I NEED TO PRESERVE MY ENERGY RHYTHMS.
YOU
ENERGY RHYTHMS. YOU KNOW, I LIVE IN THE
SUBURBS.
I
SUBURBS. I WORK IN DOWNTOWN PHILADELPHIA
BUT
I WORK IN DOWNTOWN PHILADELPHIA BUT I LIVE IN THE SUBURBS.
I
BUT I LIVE IN THE SUBURBS. I MUST HAVE TREES.
I
I MUST HAVE TREES. I FEEL LIKE AN ORDINARY PERSON,
I
I FEEL LIKE AN ORDINARY PERSON, I GO TO THE SHOPPING MALL.
I
I GO TO THE SHOPPING MALL. I WANT TO PRESERVE THAT SENSE
OF
I WANT TO PRESERVE THAT SENSE OF ORDINARYNESS AND ALWAYS BE
RESPONDING
OF ORDINARYNESS AND ALWAYS BE RESPONDING TO LIFE AS IT
OCCURS.
>>
OCCURS. >> MANY OF OUR WRITERS HAVE
ALLOWED
>> MANY OF OUR WRITERS HAVE ALLOWED US INTO SHOW OUR
VIEWERS
ALLOWED US INTO SHOW OUR VIEWERS WHERE THEY WRITE AS A
WAY
VIEWERS WHERE THEY WRITE AS A WAY OF EXPLAINING TO THEM, YOU
SAID
WAY OF EXPLAINING TO THEM, YOU SAID NO BECAUSE OF YOUR PRIVACY
AND
SAID NO BECAUSE OF YOUR PRIVACY AND YOU ALSO DIDN'T WANT YOUR
CAMERAS
AND YOU ALSO DIDN'T WANT YOUR CAMERAS OR ANY CAMERAS IN WHERE
YOU
CAMERAS OR ANY CAMERAS IN WHERE YOU TEACH.
>>
YOU TEACH. >> EXACTLY.
FROM
>> EXACTLY. FROM THE MOMENT I BECAME KNOWN
IN
FROM THE MOMENT I BECAME KNOWN IN THE MEDIA IN THE EARLY
1990'S,
IN THE MEDIA IN THE EARLY 1990'S, THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY THE
LINE
1990'S, THAT WAS ABSOLUTELY THE LINE I DREW.
I
LINE I DREW. I WILL NOT LET REPORTERS INTO
THE
I WILL NOT LET REPORTERS INTO THE CLASSROOM.
I
THE CLASSROOM. I THINK THAT'S WRONG TO ALLOW
YOUR
I THINK THAT'S WRONG TO ALLOW YOUR STUDENTS TO BE MADE
SOMEHOW
YOUR STUDENTS TO BE MADE SOMEHOW PROPS OF YOUR
OFF-CAMPUS
SOMEHOW PROPS OF YOUR OFF-CAMPUS PROMINENCE.
I
OFF-CAMPUS PROMINENCE. I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY -- IF
I
I THINK THAT'S COMPLETELY -- IF I WERE GIVING A VERY LARGE
LECTURE,
I WERE GIVING A VERY LARGE LECTURE, IT'S DIFFERENT, A
LARGE
LECTURE, IT'S DIFFERENT, A LARGE AUDIENCE, THAT WOULD BE
DIFFERENT
LARGE AUDIENCE, THAT WOULD BE DIFFERENT BUT I'VE NEVER
PERMITTED
DIFFERENT BUT I'VE NEVER PERMITTED THAT.
I
PERMITTED THAT. I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT
TO
I THINK THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A ZONE OF PRIVACY.
OH,
TO HAVE A ZONE OF PRIVACY. OH, MY GOD, WHERE I WORK, HOW I
WORK,
OH, MY GOD, WHERE I WORK, HOW I WORK, MY DESK, OH, MY HEAVEN'S
THAT'S
WORK, MY DESK, OH, MY HEAVEN'S THAT'S SORT OF LIKE MY SOUL.
>>
THAT'S SORT OF LIKE MY SOUL. >> BUT YOU HAVE A WEBSITE OF
YOUR
>> BUT YOU HAVE A WEBSITE OF YOUR FANS.
YOUR
YOUR FANS. YOUR FANS HAVE A WEBSITE FOR
YOU.
>>
YOU. >> WELL, THEY MAY HAVE CREATED
IT.
BUT
IT. BUT I
IT. BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T.
A
BUT I CERTAINLY DON'T. A NUMBER OF THEM HAVE BEEN
CREATED
A NUMBER OF THEM HAVE BEEN CREATED OVER THE YEARS AND THE
WEB
CREATED OVER THE YEARS AND THE WEB IS JUST A MASS OF --
SOMETIMES
WEB IS JUST A MASS OF -- SOMETIMES MERCHANDISE
INFORMATION
SOMETIMES MERCHANDISE INFORMATION AND ALL THESE
THINGS
INFORMATION AND ALL THESE THINGS -- SOMETIMES
MISINFORMATION
THINGS -- SOMETIMES MISINFORMATION AND ALL THESE
THINGS
MISINFORMATION AND ALL THESE THINGS BUT I DO NOT HAVE MY OWN
WEBSITE.
>>
WEBSITE. >> THEY SAY THAT'S
ELECTRONICALLY
>> THEY SAY THAT'S ELECTRONICALLY STALKING YOU, DO
YOU
ELECTRONICALLY STALKING YOU, DO YOU FEEL THAT WAY?
>>
YOU FEEL THAT WAY? >> NO.
NOT
>> NO. NOT AT ALL, BECAUSE I WAS SUCH
A
NOT AT ALL, BECAUSE I WAS SUCH A PART OF -- WHEN I WAS WRITING
FOR
A PART OF -- WHEN I WAS WRITING FOR A MAGAZINE UP FROM 1995 TO
2001,
FOR A MAGAZINE UP FROM 1995 TO 2001, WHEN I LEFT TO -- AND
SKWLOINED
2001, WHEN I LEFT TO -- AND SKWLOINED -- I'M CONTRIBUTING
EDITOR
SKWLOINED -- I'M CONTRIBUTING EDITOR NOW AT "INTERFERE"
MAGAZINE
EDITOR NOW AT "INTERFERE" MAGAZINE BUT I FELT LIKE I WAS
PART
MAGAZINE BUT I FELT LIKE I WAS PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE
VOICE
PART OF THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE VOICE ON THE WEB FOR NONFICTION
ARTICLES
VOICE ON THE WEB FOR NONFICTION ARTICLES AND SO ON SO I FEEL
PART
ARTICLES AND SO ON SO I FEEL PART OF A PIONEERING QUALITY OF
THE
PART OF A PIONEERING QUALITY OF THE WEB OF THE 1 FLAINTS.
>>
THE WEB OF THE 1 FLAINTS. >> LET'S GET TO SOME PHONE
CALLS
>> LET'S GET TO SOME PHONE CALLS FOR YOU.
LOUISVILLE,
CALLS FOR YOU. LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, IS FIRST.
CALLER:
LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, IS FIRST. CALLER: YES, DR. PAGLIA, I'M A
HUGE
CALLER: YES, DR. PAGLIA, I'M A HUGE FAN OF YOURS AND I
CERTAINLY
HUGE FAN OF YOURS AND I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT YOU
CONTINUE
CERTAINLY HOPE THAT YOU CONTINUE WITH YOUR COLUMN.
I'VE
CONTINUE WITH YOUR COLUMN. I'VE BEEN A GREAT FAN OF YOURS.
WHAT
I'VE BEEN A GREAT FAN OF YOURS. WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU IS
THE
WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU IS THE FIRST TIME I HEARD YOU IS
KIND
THE FIRST TIME I HEARD YOU IS KIND OF LIKE AN INTELLECTUAL
EXPLOSION
KIND OF LIKE AN INTELLECTUAL EXPLOSION WENT OFF AND SOMEONE
ACTUALLY
EXPLOSION WENT OFF AND SOMEONE ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT SECULAR
LIBERATION
ACTUALLY TALKED ABOUT SECULAR LIBERATION AND -- BUT NOT BEING
PART
LIBERATION AND -- BUT NOT BEING PART OF THE, AS YOU CALL IT,
THE
PART OF THE, AS YOU CALL IT, THE RADICAL LEFT OR SOMETHING,
AND
THE RADICAL LEFT OR SOMETHING, AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, AS A
CONSERVATIVE
AND I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, AS A CONSERVATIVE MYSELF AND SOMEONE
WHO
CONSERVATIVE MYSELF AND SOMEONE WHO IS -- OF SEXUAL LIBERATION,
HOW
WHO IS -- OF SEXUAL LIBERATION, HOW DO WE CONVINCE THEY SEE
PEOPLE
HOW DO WE CONVINCE THEY SEE PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE
TWO
PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE TWO ARE POSSIBLY COMBATABLE?
>>
TWO ARE POSSIBLY COMBATABLE? >> CONSERVATISM AND SEXUAL
LIBERATION?
WELL,
LIBERATION? WELL, I HAVE DETAILED MY
PHILOSOPHY
WELL, I HAVE DETAILED MY PHILOSOPHY IN A LONG PIECE
CALLED
PHILOSOPHY IN A LONG PIECE CALLED "NO LAW IN THE ARENA" IN
MY
CALLED "NO LAW IN THE ARENA" IN MY BOOK "VAMPS AND TRAMPS."
AND
MY BOOK "VAMPS AND TRAMPS." AND IN THERE I FEEL THAT THERE
SHOULD
AND IN THERE I FEEL THAT THERE SHOULD BE A STRICT LINE BETWEEN
THE
SHOULD BE A STRICT LINE BETWEEN THE PRIVATE REALM AND THE
PUBLIC.
I
PUBLIC. I FEEL THAT IN THE PRIVATE
REALM
I FEEL THAT IN THE PRIVATE REALM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
GOVERNMENT
REALM THAT, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO
INTRUDE,
GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT TO INTRUDE, TO -- THE WAY PEOPLE
CONDUCT
INTRUDE, TO -- THE WAY PEOPLE CONDUCT THEMSELVES WITH OTHER
INDIVIDUALS,
CONDUCT THEMSELVES WITH OTHER INDIVIDUALS, AS LONG AS IT'S
CONSENSUAL,
INDIVIDUALS, AS LONG AS IT'S CONSENSUAL, AND -- BEHAVIOR, I
FEEL
CONSENSUAL, AND -- BEHAVIOR, I FEEL THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO
BUSINESS
FEEL THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO BUSINESS CROSSING THAT LINE BUT
THE
BUSINESS CROSSING THAT LINE BUT THE PUBLIC REALM, I THINK THAT
IS
THE PUBLIC REALM, I THINK THAT IS THE AREA WHERE WE CAN ASK
FOR
IS THE AREA WHERE WE CAN ASK FOR STANDARDS.
FOR
FOR STANDARDS. FOR EXAMPLE,, YOU KNOW, BILL
CLINTON
FOR EXAMPLE,, YOU KNOW, BILL CLINTON COULD HAVE BEEN --
COULD
CLINTON COULD HAVE BEEN -- COULD HAVE HAD 1,000 MISTRESSES
IN
COULD HAVE HAD 1,000 MISTRESSES IN A MILLION HOTELS IN THIS
WORLD,
IN A MILLION HOTELS IN THIS WORLD, I WOULD HAVE APPLAUDED
HIM
WORLD, I WOULD HAVE APPLAUDED HIM BUT TO USE THE HALLWAYS OFF
THE
HIM BUT TO USE THE HALLWAYS OFF THE OVAL OFFICE WAS A DISGRACE.
THAT'S
THE OVAL OFFICE WAS A DISGRACE. THAT'S THE PUBLIC REALM.
IT
THAT'S THE PUBLIC REALM. IT SHOULD NOT BE VIOLATED.
>>
IT SHOULD NOT BE VIOLATED. >> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS," 1994,
THIS
>> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS," 1994, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.
DO
THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE. DO YOU REMEMBER POSING FOR
THIS?
>>
THIS? >> I'M IMITATING A NUMBER OF
THINGS.
DIANE
THINGS. DIANE RING AND THE AVENGERS AT
THAT
DIANE RING AND THE AVENGERS AT THAT POINT.
I'M
THAT POINT. I'M ALSO IMITATING A FAVORITE
ANDY
I'M ALSO IMITATING A FAVORITE ANDY WARHOL PICTURE OF ELVIS
PRESLEY
ANDY WARHOL PICTURE OF ELVIS PRESLEY ABOUT TO DRAW FROM THE
HOLSTER.
I
HOLSTER. I HAVE A KNIFE STRAPPED TO MY
HIP
I HAVE A KNIFE STRAPPED TO MY HIP AND A MILITARY JACKET FROM
THE
HIP AND A MILITARY JACKET FROM THE ARMY NAVY SURPLUS STORE
THAT
THE ARMY NAVY SURPLUS STORE THAT I'M WEARING AND THIS IS
WHAT
THAT I'M WEARING AND THIS IS WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT, AGAIN,
THE
WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT, AGAIN, THE FREE WOMAN MUST BE READY TO
MAKE
THE FREE WOMAN MUST BE READY TO MAKE HER OWN WAY IN THE WORLD.
IT'S
MAKE HER OWN WAY IN THE WORLD. IT'S A VISION OF THE ARMED
AMAZON.
>>
AMAZON. >> SAN FRANCISCO.
CALLER:
>> SAN FRANCISCO. CALLER: YEAH.
CAMILLE,
CALLER: YEAH. CAMILLE, I WANT TO THANK YOU
FOR
CAMILLE, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING AND
FOR
FOR THE WORK YOU'RE DOING AND FOR THE IMAGE OF FEMINISM THAT
YOU'RE
FOR THE IMAGE OF FEMINISM THAT YOU'RE PUTTING OUT WHERE WOMEN
CAN
YOU'RE PUTTING OUT WHERE WOMEN CAN BE STRONG AND CAN -- CAN
PARTNER
CAN BE STRONG AND CAN -- CAN PARTNER WITH MEN INSTEAD OF
BEING
PARTNER WITH MEN INSTEAD OF BEING AGAINST MEN.
>>
BEING AGAINST MEN. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: THE QUESTION I WANTED
TO
CALLER: THE QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK YOU, IS COULD YOU TALK
ABOUT
TO ASK YOU, IS COULD YOU TALK ABOUT -- BROADLY, WHAT YOU
THINK
ABOUT -- BROADLY, WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT SEX WORK, AS YOU
KNOW,
THINK ABOUT SEX WORK, AS YOU KNOW, PROSTITUTES HAVE BEEN
BOTH
KNOW, PROSTITUTES HAVE BEEN BOTH STIGMATIZED BY THE
MAINSTREAM
BOTH STIGMATIZED BY THE MAINSTREAM CULTURE AND ALSO
HAVE
MAINSTREAM CULTURE AND ALSO HAVE BEEN MADE VILLAINS AND
VICTIMS
HAVE BEEN MADE VILLAINS AND VICTIMS BY THE FEMINISTS, SOME
FEMINISTS.
>>
FEMINISTS. >> WELL, IN MY WRITING I'VE
TAKEN
>> WELL, IN MY WRITING I'VE TAKEN A STRONG POSITION OF
DEFENSE
TAKEN A STRONG POSITION OF DEFENSE OF PROSTITUTES, OF
STRIPPERS,
DEFENSE OF PROSTITUTES, OF STRIPPERS, OF DRAG QUEENS.
IN
STRIPPERS, OF DRAG QUEENS. IN FACT, THE TITLE OF MY BOOK
"VAMPS
IN FACT, THE TITLE OF MY BOOK "VAMPS AND TRAMPS" IS AN
ILLUSION
"VAMPS AND TRAMPS" IS AN ILLUSION TO THIS ASPECT.
I
ILLUSION TO THIS ASPECT. I FEEL, YOU SEE, THAT WESTERN
CULTURE
I FEEL, YOU SEE, THAT WESTERN CULTURE IS ACTUALLY A FUSION OF
TWO
CULTURE IS ACTUALLY A FUSION OF TWO TRADITIONS.
THE
TWO TRADITIONS. THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN WHICH IS
I'M
THE JUDEO-CHRISTIAN WHICH IS I'M AFRAID OFTEN RATHER
ANTI-SEX
I'M AFRAID OFTEN RATHER ANTI-SEX IN MANY OF ITS
INCARNATIONS
ANTI-SEX IN MANY OF ITS INCARNATIONS AND THE GRECO
ROMAN
INCARNATIONS AND THE GRECO ROMAN GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO
INCIDENT
ROMAN GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO INCIDENT BABYLON SO WHAT THE
BIBLE
INCIDENT BABYLON SO WHAT THE BIBLE CONDEMNS I HAVE
CELEBRATED
BIBLE CONDEMNS I HAVE CELEBRATED IN MY OWN WORK.
NOW
CELEBRATED IN MY OWN WORK. NOW I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU
KNOW,
NOW I DON'T THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT PROSTITUTES SHOULD
BE
KNOW, THAT PROSTITUTES SHOULD BE SOLICITING IN THE DOORWAYS
OF
BE SOLICITING IN THE DOORWAYS OF SCHOOLS OR CHURCHES OR
THINGS
OF SCHOOLS OR CHURCHES OR THINGS LIKE THAT.
I
THINGS LIKE THAT. I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR
QUESTIONS
I THINK THERE'S ROOM FOR QUESTIONS OF PUBLIC ORDER, BUT
AGAIN,
QUESTIONS OF PUBLIC ORDER, BUT AGAIN, I -- YOU KNOW, I AM
PROUD
AGAIN, I -- YOU KNOW, I AM PROUD TO SAY THAT I SUPPORT --
I
PROUD TO SAY THAT I SUPPORT -- I SUPPORT PROSTITUTES AND I
HAVE
I SUPPORT PROSTITUTES AND I HAVE A FEELING OF SOLIDARITY
WITH
HAVE A FEELING OF SOLIDARITY WITH THEY WILL.
>>
WITH THEY WILL. >> SO DANIEL LEWIS FROM
WASHINGTON,
>> SO DANIEL LEWIS FROM WASHINGTON, D.C. ASKS THIS IN
AN
WASHINGTON, D.C. ASKS THIS IN AN EMAIL QUESTION.
SEX
AN EMAIL QUESTION. SEX AND OSWALT HAS ALWAYS HAD A
ROLE
SEX AND OSWALT HAS ALWAYS HAD A ROLE IN AMERICAN POLITICS.
HOW
ROLE IN AMERICAN POLITICS. HOW IS YOUR ROLE -- HOW IS YOUR
VIEW
HOW IS YOUR ROLE -- HOW IS YOUR VIEW -- HOW, IN YOUR VIEW, IS
OUR
VIEW -- HOW, IN YOUR VIEW, IS OUR TIME DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS?
SO
OUR TIME DIFFERENT FROM OTHERS? SO I GUESS BRINGING THIS, THE
OSWALT
SO I GUESS BRINGING THIS, THE OSWALT ISSUE BACK TO POLITICS?
>>
OSWALT ISSUE BACK TO POLITICS? >> WELL, WE HAD THIS ENORMOUS
EXPLOSION
>> WELL, WE HAD THIS ENORMOUS EXPLOSION OF THE SEXUAL
REVOLUTION
EXPLOSION OF THE SEXUAL REVOLUTION IN THE 1960'S AND
THE
REVOLUTION IN THE 1960'S AND THE ENTIRE DECADE JUST WENT
MADLY
THE ENTIRE DECADE JUST WENT MADLY OUT OF CONTROL, SO THAT
THERE
MADLY OUT OF CONTROL, SO THAT THERE WAS A CONSERVATIVE
REACTION
THERE WAS A CONSERVATIVE REACTION BY THE END OF THE
DECADE
REACTION BY THE END OF THE DECADE IN RICHARD NIXON'S
ELECTION.
SO
ELECTION. SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT
YOU
SO THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS THAT YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE
PROGRESSIVE
YOU WOULD THINK THAT THE PROGRESSIVE OR LIBERAL SIDE OF
THE
PROGRESSIVE OR LIBERAL SIDE OF THE SEXUAL EQUATION FEMINISM
WOULD
THE SEXUAL EQUATION FEMINISM WOULD TAKE UP THE FLAG.
INSTEAD,
WOULD TAKE UP THE FLAG. INSTEAD, THERE WAS AN ODD KIND
OF
INSTEAD, THERE WAS AN ODD KIND OF A FUSION BETWEEN A FEMINISM
OF
OF A FUSION BETWEEN A FEMINISM OF KATHERINE MCKINNON TO
CONSERVATIVES
OF KATHERINE MCKINNON TO CONSERVATIVES TO DRIVE FOR
EXAMPLE
CONSERVATIVES TO DRIVE FOR EXAMPLE PLAYBOY OUT OF THE
CONVENIENCE
EXAMPLE PLAYBOY OUT OF THE CONVENIENCE STORES AND DORKIN
AND
CONVENIENCE STORES AND DORKIN AND HER PEOPLE TRIED TO PASS
LAWS
AND HER PEOPLE TRIED TO PASS LAWS THAT WERE LATER DECLARED
UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
ALL
UNCONSTITUTIONAL. ALL KINDS OF STATEMENTS
PORNOGRAPHY
ALL KINDS OF STATEMENTS PORNOGRAPHY CAUSES RAPE AND
THINGS
PORNOGRAPHY CAUSES RAPE AND THINGS LIKE THAT WHICH I THINK
HAS
THINGS LIKE THAT WHICH I THINK HAS ABSOLUTELY NEVER BEEN
PROVEN.
SO
PROVEN. SO AGAIN, WE KEEP GETTING THIS
STRANGE
SO AGAIN, WE KEEP GETTING THIS STRANGE ERUPTION OF OUR
ABORIGINAL
STRANGE ERUPTION OF OUR ABORIGINAL PURITANISM AGAIN AND
AGAIN.
THIS
AGAIN. THIS -- EVEN THOUGH THE COUNTRY
ITSELF
THIS -- EVEN THOUGH THE COUNTRY ITSELF IS GEOGRAPHICALLY SO
MUCH
ITSELF IS GEOGRAPHICALLY SO MUCH LARGER, THE NEW ENGLAND
PURITAN
MUCH LARGER, THE NEW ENGLAND PURITAN TRADITION SEEMS TO
RETURN
PURITAN TRADITION SEEMS TO RETURN AGAIN AND AGAIN.
SO
RETURN AGAIN AND AGAIN. SO THAT OUR ARGUMENTS ABOUT SEX
,
SO THAT OUR ARGUMENTS ABOUT SEX , PARTICULARLY SEX AS A CLASS
OF
, PARTICULARLY SEX AS A CLASS OF POLITICS SEEMS RATHER NAIVE
AND
OF POLITICS SEEMS RATHER NAIVE AND IDEALISTIC TO EUROPEANS WHO
DON'T
AND IDEALISTIC TO EUROPEANS WHO DON'T CARE AT ALL WHAT
POLITICIANS
DON'T CARE AT ALL WHAT POLITICIANS DO IN THEIR PRIVATE
HOURS
POLITICIANS DO IN THEIR PRIVATE HOURS SO I THINK THAT THE
PURITAN
HOURS SO I THINK THAT THE PURITAN INFLUENCE IS ALSO,
THOUGH
PURITAN INFLUENCE IS ALSO, THOUGH IT'S POSITIVE IN TERMS
OF
THOUGH IT'S POSITIVE IN TERMS OF OUR -- THE WAY WE WORK HARD
IN
OF OUR -- THE WAY WE WORK HARD IN AMERICA, A SENSE OF RIGGER,
SELF-DISCIPLINE,
IN AMERICA, A SENSE OF RIGGER, SELF-DISCIPLINE, OF
INDEPENDENCE
SELF-DISCIPLINE, OF INDEPENDENCE AND FREE THOUGHT,
THAT
INDEPENDENCE AND FREE THOUGHT, THAT ALSO WAS THE PURITAN
INFLUENCE.
SO
INFLUENCE. SO I'M AFRAID IT'S BUILT INTO
OUR
SO I'M AFRAID IT'S BUILT INTO OUR CHARACTER.
I
OUR CHARACTER. I DON'T SEE HOW WE'RE EVER
GOING
I DON'T SEE HOW WE'RE EVER GOING TO ESCAPE IT.
>>
GOING TO ESCAPE IT. >> THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF GAY
MARRIAGE
>> THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF GAY MARRIAGE PLAY INTO IT?
>>
MARRIAGE PLAY INTO IT? >> I'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD OF
GAY
>> I'VE BEEN ON THE RECORD OF GAY MARRIAGE SINCE THE EARLY
1990'S,
GAY MARRIAGE SINCE THE EARLY 1990'S, AND I SPEAK OF IT IN
"VAMPS
1990'S, AND I SPEAK OF IT IN "VAMPS AND TRAMPS," AND I FEEL
THAT
"VAMPS AND TRAMPS," AND I FEEL THAT IT'S A MISTAKE EVER TO USE
THE
THAT IT'S A MISTAKE EVER TO USE THE WORD MARRIAGE.
MARRIAGE
THE WORD MARRIAGE. MARRIAGE IS A WORD ASSOCIATED
WITH
MARRIAGE IS A WORD ASSOCIATED WITH THE SACRAMENTS OF THE
CHURCH
WITH THE SACRAMENTS OF THE CHURCH GOING BACK TO LATIN.
THE
CHURCH GOING BACK TO LATIN. THE WORD MARRIAGE ASCENDS FROM
THE
THE WORD MARRIAGE ASCENDS FROM THE LATIN.
WHY
THE LATIN. WHY GAY ACTIVISTS HAVE INFLAMED
THE
WHY GAY ACTIVISTS HAVE INFLAMED THE SITUATION FURTHER WITH THIS
--
THE SITUATION FURTHER WITH THIS -- BY USING THAT WORD.
I
-- BY USING THAT WORD. I PREFER AN IDEA OF DOMESTIC
PARTNERSHIP
I PREFER AN IDEA OF DOMESTIC PARTNERSHIP OR CIVIL UNIONS.
I
PARTNERSHIP OR CIVIL UNIONS. I FEEL THAT WHAT NEEDS TO BE
INVESTIGATED
I FEEL THAT WHAT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED IS ANY SPECIAL
BENEFIT
INVESTIGATED IS ANY SPECIAL BENEFIT GIVEN TO SET SEXUAL
MARRIED
BENEFIT GIVEN TO SET SEXUAL MARRIED COUPLES THAT WOULD NOT
BE
MARRIED COUPLES THAT WOULD NOT BE GIVEN TO UNMARRIED COUPLES
WHO
BE GIVEN TO UNMARRIED COUPLES WHO ARE LIFE PARTNERS AND ALSO
HOMOSEXUAL
WHO ARE LIFE PARTNERS AND ALSO HOMOSEXUAL PARTNERS, THAT'S
WHAT
HOMOSEXUAL PARTNERS, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED -- THE STATE AND
CHURCH
WHAT WE NEED -- THE STATE AND CHURCH MUST BE SEPARATED,
WHEREVER
CHURCH MUST BE SEPARATED, WHEREVER -- WHEREVER WE HAVE
ANY
WHEREVER -- WHEREVER WE HAVE ANY KIND OF INTRUSION OF
RELIGIOUS
ANY KIND OF INTRUSION OF RELIGIOUS ASSUMPTIONS IN
GOVERNMENT
RELIGIOUS ASSUMPTIONS IN GOVERNMENT PROCESS, I BELIEVE
THEY
GOVERNMENT PROCESS, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND
THAT
THEY HAVE TO BE REMOVED AND THAT IS, IN FACT, THE THRUST OF
THE
THAT IS, IN FACT, THE THRUST OF THE LAST 250 YEARS OF THE
DEVELOPMENT
THE LAST 250 YEARS OF THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE MODERN
DEMOCRACIES.
>>
DEMOCRACIES. >> HAS THAT PLAYED OUT IN YOUR
OWN
>> HAS THAT PLAYED OUT IN YOUR OWN LIFE, TOO?
I
OWN LIFE, TOO? I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IN
YOUR
I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, IN YOUR OWN LIFE, HAVE YOU HAD
TIMES
YOUR OWN LIFE, HAVE YOU HAD TIMES IN YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIP
IN
TIMES IN YOUR OWN RELATIONSHIP IN WHICH YOU'VE FELT LIKE --
>>
IN WHICH YOU'VE FELT LIKE -- >> WELL, I'VE BEEN WITH ALLISON
MADDOX
>> WELL, I'VE BEEN WITH ALLISON MADDOX FOR 10 YEARS NOW, AND
WE'VE
MADDOX FOR 10 YEARS NOW, AND WE'VE DISCUSSED -- YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE
WE'VE DISCUSSED -- YOU KNOW, WE HAVE DOMESTIC PARTNERS.
THERE
HAVE DOMESTIC PARTNERS. THERE AREN'T THAT MANY BENEFITS
THAT
THERE AREN'T THAT MANY BENEFITS THAT ON CREW TO IT.
BUT
THAT ON CREW TO IT. BUT THIS IS ABOUT, OH, -- THAT
ACCRUE
BUT THIS IS ABOUT, OH, -- THAT ACCRUE TO IT.
BUT
ACCRUE TO IT. BUT THIS IS ABOUT, OH, BEING
EXCLUDED
BUT THIS IS ABOUT, OH, BEING EXCLUDED FROM THE ROOM AT THE
HOSPITAL
EXCLUDED FROM THE ROOM AT THE HOSPITAL OR -- IT'S ABSURD
PROTEST
HOSPITAL OR -- IT'S ABSURD PROTEST THIS ANY GAYS ARE
MAKING,
PROTEST THIS ANY GAYS ARE MAKING, BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE
YOUR
MAKING, BECAUSE YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN WILL AND MAKE SURE
THIS
YOUR OWN WILL AND MAKE SURE THIS ALL THESE THINGS ARE TAKEN
CARE
THIS ALL THESE THINGS ARE TAKEN CARE OF.
HOWEVER,
CARE OF. HOWEVER, IN CASES OF SOCIAL
SECURITY,
HOWEVER, IN CASES OF SOCIAL SECURITY, LET'S SAY, WHERE
SOCIAL
SECURITY, LET'S SAY, WHERE SOCIAL SECURITY DOES NOT
TRANSFER
SOCIAL SECURITY DOES NOT TRANSFER TO A HOMOSEXUAL
PARTNER,
TRANSFER TO A HOMOSEXUAL PARTNER, THAT REALLY NEEDS TO
BE
PARTNER, THAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT IN TERMS OF PAST
PRECEDENT
BE LOOKED AT IN TERMS OF PAST PRECEDENT AND MAY I TAKE THIS
OPPORTUNITY
PRECEDENT AND MAY I TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY --
>>
OPPORTUNITY -- >> SURE.
>>
>> SURE. >> TO SAY THAT -- A SCOOP FOR
C-SPAN.
OUR
C-SPAN. OUR FAMILY EXPANDED LAST YEAR.
ALLISON
OUR FAMILY EXPANDED LAST YEAR. ALLISON GAVE BIRTH TO A SON
LUCIAN.
I
LUCIAN. I HAVE KEPT THIS COMPLETELY OUT
OF
I HAVE KEPT THIS COMPLETELY OUT OF THE MEDIA.
HE'LL
OF THE MEDIA. HE'LL BE A YEAR OLD THIS FALL,
AND,
HE'LL BE A YEAR OLD THIS FALL, AND, SCOOP FOR C-SPAN THAT WAY.
>>
AND, SCOOP FOR C-SPAN THAT WAY. >> WHAT HAS THAT DONE TO YOU?
>>
>> WHAT HAS THAT DONE TO YOU? >> WELL, IT'S BEEN GRATE.
JUST
>> WELL, IT'S BEEN GRATE. JUST INCREDIBLE.
IT'S
JUST INCREDIBLE. IT'S BEEN QUITE AMAZING.
>>
IT'S BEEN QUITE AMAZING. >> HOW DO YOU PLAN ON BRINGING
HIM
>> HOW DO YOU PLAN ON BRINGING HIM UP?
>>
HIM UP? >> WELL, I HOPE AS A FREE
THINKER.
ALLISON
THINKER. ALLISON IS A FREE THINKER, AS I
AM,
ALLISON IS A FREE THINKER, AS I AM, AND SHE'S AN ARTIST AND
INDEPENDENT.
SHE
INDEPENDENT. SHE HAD A VERY PRODUCTIVE YEAR
LAST
SHE HAD A VERY PRODUCTIVE YEAR LAST YEAR.
PRODUCED
LAST YEAR. PRODUCED THE BOOK CALLED "SEX
IN
PRODUCED THE BOOK CALLED "SEX IN THE CITY, AN ILLUSTRATED
HISTORY
IN THE CITY, AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY OF SEX IN NEW YORK" AND
I
HISTORY OF SEX IN NEW YORK" AND I WROTE THE INTRODUCTION TO
THAT
I WROTE THE INTRODUCTION TO THAT CALLED "AMERICAN BABYLON."
WHERE
THAT CALLED "AMERICAN BABYLON." WHERE I SHOW ALL THE VERY ERIE
KIND
WHERE I SHOW ALL THE VERY ERIE KIND OF RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN
MANHATTAN
KIND OF RESEMBLANCES BETWEEN MANHATTAN AND THE BABYLON OF
ANTIQUITY
MANHATTAN AND THE BABYLON OF ANTIQUITY THAT NOW HAS COME
BACK
ANTIQUITY THAT NOW HAS COME BACK INTO THE NEWS SO MUCH
BECAUSE
BACK INTO THE NEWS SO MUCH BECAUSE OF OUR INCURSION TO
IRAQ.
>>
IRAQ. >> LET'S GO TO BOWIE, MARYLAND.
CALLER:
>> LET'S GO TO BOWIE, MARYLAND. CALLER: YES.
FIRST,
CALLER: YES. FIRST, I RESPECT THE SPEAKER
THERE
FIRST, I RESPECT THE SPEAKER THERE AND I HAVE TWO QUICK
ONES.
FIRST,
ONES. FIRST, ON FEMINISM, I THINK
THERE'S
FIRST, ON FEMINISM, I THINK THERE'S A SPLIT BETWEEN WHAT I
WOULD
THERE'S A SPLIT BETWEEN WHAT I WOULD SAY ARE THE REFORM AND
REVOLUTION.
REFORM
REVOLUTION. REFORM IS JUST GET BAD OF THE
BAD
REFORM IS JUST GET BAD OF THE BAD DEGRADING EXTREME AND THE
ABUSE
BAD DEGRADING EXTREME AND THE ABUSE BUT THEY BASICALLY ACCEPT
SECONDARY
ABUSE BUT THEY BASICALLY ACCEPT SECONDARY TREATMENT, YOU KNOW,
THE
SECONDARY TREATMENT, YOU KNOW, THE TSKITISHVILI RUSS TYPE OF
THING
THE TSKITISHVILI RUSS TYPE OF THING AND THEN THE
REVOLUTIONARIES
THING AND THEN THE REVOLUTIONARIES AND TO ME SADLY
I
REVOLUTIONARIES AND TO ME SADLY I THINK THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY
WOMEN
I THINK THERE ARE NOT VERY MANY WOMEN WHO WANT TO BE EQUAL.
I
WOMEN WHO WANT TO BE EQUAL. I CONSIDER MISS A LIBERAL AND
ABLE
I CONSIDER MISS A LIBERAL AND ABLE TO CRITICIZE ANYONE, AND
REALLY
ABLE TO CRITICIZE ANYONE, AND REALLY BRING NEW THOUGHT AND I
WANT
REALLY BRING NEW THOUGHT AND I WANT TO KNOW, DO YOU HAVE A
PROBLEM
WANT TO KNOW, DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE DEFINITION,
BECAUSE
PROBLEM WITH THE DEFINITION, BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE
REFERRED
BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE THAT ARE REFERRED TO AS LIBERAL
DEMOCRATS,
REFERRED TO AS LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, THEY'RE REALLY
LEFTISTS
DEMOCRATS, THEY'RE REALLY LEFTISTS WHO ARE CONSERVATIVE,
MENING
LEFTISTS WHO ARE CONSERVATIVE, MENING THAT THEY HAVE AN AGENDA
JUST
MENING THAT THEY HAVE AN AGENDA JUST AS THEY -- TOM DELAY IS A
RELIGIOUS
JUST AS THEY -- TOM DELAY IS A RELIGIOUS PERSON, AND HE TAKES
HIS
RELIGIOUS PERSON, AND HE TAKES HIS WORLD VIEW AND TRIES TO FIT
THE
HIS WORLD VIEW AND TRIES TO FIT THE FACTS TO THAT.
THERE
THE FACTS TO THAT. THERE IS PLENTY LEFTISTS WHO
TAKE
THERE IS PLENTY LEFTISTS WHO TAKE THEIR WORLD VIEW AND TRY
TO
TAKE THEIR WORLD VIEW AND TRY TO FIT THE FACTS, WHEREAS TO ME
A
TO FIT THE FACTS, WHEREAS TO ME A LIBERAL IS SOMEONE WHO LOOKS
AT
A LIBERAL IS SOMEONE WHO LOOKS AT ALL THE FACTS AND IS
INFORMED
AT ALL THE FACTS AND IS INFORMED BY AS MANY RESPONSIBLE
SOURCES
INFORMED BY AS MANY RESPONSIBLE SOURCES AS POSSIBLE, THEN TRIES
TO
SOURCES AS POSSIBLE, THEN TRIES TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR AS MANY
PEOPLE
TO DO WHAT'S BEST FOR AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE, AND TO ME,
THAT'S
PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE, AND TO ME, THAT'S WHAT A LIBERAL IS.
AS
THAT'S WHAT A LIBERAL IS. AS OPPOSED TO A CONSERVATIVE
WHO
AS OPPOSED TO A CONSERVATIVE WHO SAYS, WELL, WHAT DID THE
BIBLE
WHO SAYS, WELL, WHAT DID THE BIBLE SAY?
WELL,
BIBLE SAY? WELL, THAT'S MY VIEW, AND I
JUST
WELL, THAT'S MY VIEW, AND I JUST AM WONDERING, CAN THEY BE
A
JUST AM WONDERING, CAN THEY BE A BETTER -- IS THERE A GROUP
FOR
A BETTER -- IS THERE A GROUP FOR WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT OR
AM
FOR WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT OR AM I DESTINED TO BE CALLED A
LIBERAL
AM I DESTINED TO BE CALLED A LIBERAL EVEN THOUGH I DON'T
SUPPORT
LIBERAL EVEN THOUGH I DON'T SUPPORT THE TEACHER'S UNION.
PEOPLE
SUPPORT THE TEACHER'S UNION. PEOPLE USED TO PUT THE TEACHERS
UNION
PEOPLE USED TO PUT THE TEACHERS UNION -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A
LIST
UNION -- YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LIST THEY CALL LIBERAL WHEN
THEY'RE
LIST THEY CALL LIBERAL WHEN THEY'RE REALLY JUST -- THEY'RE
ON
THEY'RE REALLY JUST -- THEY'RE ON THE LEFT.
>>
ON THE LEFT. >> THANK YOU.
>>
>> THANK YOU. >> YEAH.
SO
>> YEAH. SO MUCH IN THERE.
YEAH,
SO MUCH IN THERE. YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IN MANY
WAYS
YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IN MANY WAYS THE LIBERAL WING OF THE
DEMOCRATIC
WAYS THE LIBERAL WING OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BECOME A
HUGE
DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS BECOME A HUGE -- A HOSTAGE TO SPECIAL
INTEREST
HUGE -- A HOSTAGE TO SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS AND EVERYTHING
ELSE
INTEREST GROUPS AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND THAT'S A SERIOUS
PROBLEM,
ELSE AND THAT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM, BUT I THINK IN GENERAL
ONE
PROBLEM, BUT I THINK IN GENERAL ONE CAN SAY THIS THE
CONSERVATIVE
ONE CAN SAY THIS THE CONSERVATIVE IS SOMEONE WHO
LOOKS
CONSERVATIVE IS SOMEONE WHO LOOKS BACKWARD TO A TIME WHEN
THINGS
LOOKS BACKWARD TO A TIME WHEN THINGS WERE BETTER, WHEN -- A
TIME
THINGS WERE BETTER, WHEN -- A TIME OF THE FOREBEARS WHEN
THERE
TIME OF THE FOREBEARS WHEN THERE WERE BED ROCK TRADITIONAL
VALUES
THERE WERE BED ROCK TRADITIONAL VALUES THAT WE NEED TO RETURN
TO
VALUES THAT WE NEED TO RETURN TO WHEREAS A LIBERAL IS
GENERALLY
TO WHEREAS A LIBERAL IS GENERALLY LOOKING FORWARD AND
TRYING
GENERALLY LOOKING FORWARD AND TRYING TO THINK HOW TO REMAKE
SOCIETY.
THE
SOCIETY. THE LIBERAL WILL SEE THE
CONSTITUTION
THE LIBERAL WILL SEE THE CONSTITUTION AS MORE MALLEABLE
AS
CONSTITUTION AS MORE MALLEABLE AS A DOCUMENT THAT IS IN
EVOLUTION
AS A DOCUMENT THAT IS IN EVOLUTION THAT NEEDS TO BE BE
CONSTANTLY
EVOLUTION THAT NEEDS TO BE BE CONSTANTLY REVISED FROM CENTURY
TO
CONSTANTLY REVISED FROM CENTURY TO CENTURY WHERE'S A
CONSERVATIVE
TO CENTURY WHERE'S A CONSERVATIVE WILL SAY THIS IS
WHAT
CONSERVATIVE WILL SAY THIS IS WHAT THE POUNDERS ENVISIONED.
WHEN
WHAT THE POUNDERS ENVISIONED. WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN THE
EARLY
WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN THE EARLY 1990'S, IT WAS A -- IT
WAS
EARLY 1990'S, IT WAS A -- IT WAS THE P.C. ERA, THE POLITICAL
CORRECTNESS
WAS THE P.C. ERA, THE POLITICAL CORRECTNESS WAS ENTRENCHED AND
THE
CORRECTNESS WAS ENTRENCHED AND THE MAJOR MEDIA WERE UTTERLY
HOSTAGE
THE MAJOR MEDIA WERE UTTERLY HOSTAGE TO IT.
THERE
HOSTAGE TO IT. THERE WAS A KIND OF LIBERALISM
THAT
THERE WAS A KIND OF LIBERALISM THAT WAS QUITE AUTOMATIC IN
THAT
THAT WAS QUITE AUTOMATIC IN THAT PERIOD AND ALSO IN THE
UNIVERSITY
THAT PERIOD AND ALSO IN THE UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES AND THEN
OVER
UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES AND THEN OVER THE PERIOD OF THE 1990'S,
YOU
OVER THE PERIOD OF THE 1990'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST REVERSED.
SO
YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST REVERSED. SO THE BEGINNING OF THE 1990'S
I
SO THE BEGINNING OF THE 1990'S I THINK CONSERVATIVES, YOUNGER
CONSERVATIVES
I THINK CONSERVATIVES, YOUNGER CONSERVATIVES IN PARTICULAR HAD
A
CONSERVATIVES IN PARTICULAR HAD A TREMENDOUS INTELLECTUAL KIND
OF
A TREMENDOUS INTELLECTUAL KIND OF ALERTNESS BECAUSE THEY WERE
ATTACKING
OF ALERTNESS BECAUSE THEY WERE ATTACKING ALL THESE OLD
DINOSAUR
ATTACKING ALL THESE OLD DINOSAUR LIKE PREACCEPTS OF
LIBERALISM
DINOSAUR LIKE PREACCEPTS OF LIBERALISM THAT WERE NOW -- HAD
NO
LIBERALISM THAT WERE NOW -- HAD NO CONNECTION TO CONTEMPORARY
LIFE
NO CONNECTION TO CONTEMPORARY LIFE BUT NOW IT'S ALMOST KIND
OF
LIFE BUT NOW IT'S ALMOST KIND OF REVERSED.
I
OF REVERSED. I THINK THE WORD LIBERAL IS
STARTING
I THINK THE WORD LIBERAL IS STARTING TO COME BACK AGAIN AND
PERHAPS
STARTING TO COME BACK AGAIN AND PERHAPS BE REJUVENATED, FOR
JUST
PERHAPS BE REJUVENATED, FOR JUST WHAT THE CALLER SAID, TO
BRING
JUST WHAT THE CALLER SAID, TO BRING IT BACK TO ITS OLD IDEA
OF
BRING IT BACK TO ITS OLD IDEA OF SOMEONE WHO IS OPEN MINDED,
FUTURE
OF SOMEONE WHO IS OPEN MINDED, FUTURE LOOKING, RIGHT, BUT I
DON'T
FUTURE LOOKING, RIGHT, BUT I DON'T WANT TO -- TO ABANDONED
--
DON'T WANT TO -- TO ABANDONED -- TO ABANDON EITHER ONE.
WE
-- TO ABANDON EITHER ONE. WE HAVE TO BUILD ON THE GREAT
THING
WE HAVE TO BUILD ON THE GREAT THING OF THE PAST BUT ALWAYS
WITH
THING OF THE PAST BUT ALWAYS WITH THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW,
THAT
WITH THE SENSE THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT SOCIETY IS A HUMAN
CREATION.
IT
CREATION. IT IS AN ORGANISM ITSELF AND
THAT
IT IS AN ORGANISM ITSELF AND THAT IT SHOULD CONSTANTLY BE
REVISED
THAT IT SHOULD CONSTANTLY BE REVISED AND NOT BE ALLOWED TO
CALCIFY.
>>
CALCIFY. >> CRESCENT CITY, CALIFORNIA.
CALLER:
>> CRESCENT CITY, CALIFORNIA. CALLER: HELLO, MRS. PAGLIA.
I
CALLER: HELLO, MRS. PAGLIA. I REALLY WANT TO EXPRESS MY
ADMIRATION
I REALLY WANT TO EXPRESS MY ADMIRATION FOR YOUR
INTELLECTUAL
ADMIRATION FOR YOUR INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY AND YOUR
ADHERENCE
INTELLECTUAL INTEGRITY AND YOUR ADHERENCE TO RIGOROUS ACADEMIC
SCHOLARSHIPS.
>>
SCHOLARSHIPS. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: THIS IS SO REFRESHING
AND
CALLER: THIS IS SO REFRESHING AND SO RARE TO HAVE IT IN THE
DEGREE
AND SO RARE TO HAVE IT IN THE DEGREE THAT YOU HAVE IN MY
OPINION.
>>
OPINION. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK
YOUR
CALLER: I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOUR OPINION ABOUT TWO THINGS.
ABOUT
YOUR OPINION ABOUT TWO THINGS. ABOUT THE PROFESSOR ALLEN
BLOOM'S
ABOUT THE PROFESSOR ALLEN BLOOM'S BOOK CALLED "THE
CLOTHING
BLOOM'S BOOK CALLED "THE CLOTHING OF THE AMERICAN --
CLOSING
CLOTHING OF THE AMERICAN -- CLOSING OF THE AMERICAN MIND."
WHETHER
CLOSING OF THE AMERICAN MIND." WHETHER YOU THINK IT WAS
ACCURATE
WHETHER YOU THINK IT WAS ACCURATE AND HELPFUL AND IS
STILL
ACCURATE AND HELPFUL AND IS STILL PERTINENT AND ALSO, WHAT
DO
STILL PERTINENT AND ALSO, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION
DO YOU THINK OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCHOLARS, A
GROUP
ASSOCIATION OF SCHOLARS, A GROUP OF PROFESSORS ORGANIZED
TO
GROUP OF PROFESSORS ORGANIZED TO TRY TO FIGHT POLITICAL
CORRECTNESS?
THANK
CORRECTNESS? THANK YOU SO MUCH YOUR FOUR
EFFORTS.
>>
EFFORTS. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I APPRECIATE IT A LOT.
>>
CALLER: I APPRECIATE IT A LOT. >> THANK YOU.
WELL,
>> THANK YOU. WELL, NOW ALLEN BLOOM'S BOOK IS
USUALLY
WELL, NOW ALLEN BLOOM'S BOOK IS USUALLY THOUGHT TO HAVE
INAUGURATED
USUALLY THOUGHT TO HAVE INAUGURATED THE DELURE WARS.
IT'S
INAUGURATED THE DELURE WARS. IT'S AN ATTACK ON THE ACADEMY
AND
IT'S AN ATTACK ON THE ACADEMY AND -- THE CULTURE WARS.
IT'S
AND -- THE CULTURE WARS. IT'S AN ATTACK ON THE ACADEMY
AND
IT'S AN ATTACK ON THE ACADEMY AND THAT KIND OF THINKING AND
SO
AND THAT KIND OF THINKING AND SO ON.
I
SO ON. I AGREE WITH THE ALLEN BLOOM
BOOK
I AGREE WITH THE ALLEN BLOOM BOOK ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE
SELECTION
BOOK ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE SELECTION OF GREAT WORKS THAT
STUDENTS
SELECTION OF GREAT WORKS THAT STUDENTS SHOULD BE EDUCATED.
ABOUT
STUDENTS SHOULD BE EDUCATED. ABOUT I BELIEVE THERE IS A
COULDN'T
ABOUT I BELIEVE THERE IS A COULDN'T NUT IN WESTERN CULTURE
THAT
COULDN'T NUT IN WESTERN CULTURE THAT TOO MUCH TODAY ON CAMPUSES
HAS
THAT TOO MUCH TODAY ON CAMPUSES HAS SORT OF BEEN THROWN OUT THE
WINDOW,
HAS SORT OF BEEN THROWN OUT THE WINDOW, BUT THERE IS KIND OF A
COLDNESS
WINDOW, BUT THERE IS KIND OF A COLDNESS OR A KIND OF
LIMITATION
COLDNESS OR A KIND OF LIMITATION TO ALLEN BLOOM'S
VIEW
LIMITATION TO ALLEN BLOOM'S VIEW OF WHAT CULTURE CONSISTS
OF.
I
OF. I MYSELF AM MUCH MORE
INTERESTED
I MYSELF AM MUCH MORE INTERESTED IN MOVIES AND MEDIA
AND
INTERESTED IN MOVIES AND MEDIA AND ALSO THE VISUAL ARTS.
I
AND ALSO THE VISUAL ARTS. I FEEL THAT ALLEN BLOOM IS A
PHILOSOPHER
I FEEL THAT ALLEN BLOOM IS A PHILOSOPHER AND THEREFORE
THERE'S
PHILOSOPHER AND THEREFORE THERE'S THIS KIND OF
RATIONALISM
THERE'S THIS KIND OF RATIONALISM IN HIS POINT OF
VIEW
RATIONALISM IN HIS POINT OF VIEW THAT I FELT AS A MEMBER OF
THE
VIEW THAT I FELT AS A MEMBER OF THE 1960'S GENERATION IS A
LITTLE
THE 1960'S GENERATION IS A LITTLE BIT CONSTRAINING,
BECAUSE
LITTLE BIT CONSTRAINING, BECAUSE WE ARE THE ROCK 'N'
ROLL
BECAUSE WE ARE THE ROCK 'N' ROLL GENERATION THAT ARE ABOUT
EMOTIONAL
ROLL GENERATION THAT ARE ABOUT EMOTIONAL EXPRESSION.
THAT'S
EMOTIONAL EXPRESSION. THAT'S WHAT I FELT WAS NEEDED
IN
THAT'S WHAT I FELT WAS NEEDED IN ACTION DEEMA.
IT
IN ACTION DEEMA. IT HAD GOTTEN VERY DECIMATED IN
THE
IT HAD GOTTEN VERY DECIMATED IN THE LATE 1950'S AND 1960'S.
SO
THE LATE 1950'S AND 1960'S. SO I THINK ALLEN BLOOM DESERVES
CREDIT.
HE
CREDIT. HE WAS AN HONORABLE MAN WHO PUT
THIS
HE WAS AN HONORABLE MAN WHO PUT THIS THING ON CENTER STAGE FOR
US
THIS THING ON CENTER STAGE FOR US TO DISCUSS, BUT AT THE SAME
TIME
US TO DISCUSS, BUT AT THE SAME TIME IL8D SUPPLEMENT HIS WORK
OR
TIME IL8D SUPPLEMENT HIS WORK OR HIS EDUCATIONAL MODEL BY
ABOUT
OR HIS EDUCATIONAL MODEL BY ABOUT 59,000 OTHER THINGS, ALL
RIGHT,
ABOUT 59,000 OTHER THINGS, ALL RIGHT, AND THEN --
>>
RIGHT, AND THEN -- >> NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
SCHOLARS.
>>
SCHOLARS. >> THANK YOU.
NATIONAL
>> THANK YOU. NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF
SCHOLARS,
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SCHOLARS, I WISH THAT THEY
WOULD
SCHOLARS, I WISH THAT THEY WOULD -- THEY'RE DOING GOOD
WORK,
WOULD -- THEY'RE DOING GOOD WORK, BUT THEY'RE NOT AS
PROMINENT
WORK, BUT THEY'RE NOT AS PROMINENT YET.
I
PROMINENT YET. I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AS
POLITICALLY
I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AS POLITICALLY SAVVY AS I WISH
THAT
POLITICALLY SAVVY AS I WISH THAT THEY WERE.
I
THAT THEY WERE. I MYSELF DO NOT BELONG TO THAT
GROUP.
I
GROUP. I ALSO WAS DISILLUSIONED WITH
THE
I ALSO WAS DISILLUSIONED WITH THE M.L.A. AND I QUIT IT IN
DISGUST,
THE M.L.A. AND I QUIT IT IN DISGUST, OK, TO JOIN THE GNAW
AND
DISGUST, OK, TO JOIN THE GNAW AND DISSIDENT MEDIA ECOLOGY
ASSOCIATION
AND DISSIDENT MEDIA ECOLOGY ASSOCIATION THAT WAS FOUNDED BY
PROFESSOR
ASSOCIATION THAT WAS FOUNDED BY PROFESSOR LANCE STRATE OF
FORDHAM
PROFESSOR LANCE STRATE OF FORDHAM UNIVERSITY AND THE
GREAT
FORDHAM UNIVERSITY AND THE GREAT MOLEDS OF THIS
ORGANIZATION
GREAT MOLEDS OF THIS ORGANIZATION -- MODELS OF THIS
ORGANIZATION -- MODELS OF THIS ORGANIZATION NEAL POSTMAN OF
N.Y.U.,
ORGANIZATION NEAL POSTMAN OF N.Y.U., A SEVERE CRITIC OF
MEDIA
N.Y.U., A SEVERE CRITIC OF MEDIA AND IT'S AN ANALYSIS OF
THE
MEDIA AND IT'S AN ANALYSIS OF THE ENTIRE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE
EXIST
THE ENTIRE ENVIRONMENT THAT WE EXIST IN, IT'S BOOKS.
AND
EXIST IN, IT'S BOOKS. AND TECHNOLOGY AND, RADIO,
TELEVISION,
AND TECHNOLOGY AND, RADIO, TELEVISION, ALL OF THOSE THINGS
THAT
TELEVISION, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT CHANGE US, THAT BECOME US,
AND
THAT CHANGE US, THAT BECOME US, AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS
ASSOCIATION
AND THE WHOLE POINT OF THIS ASSOCIATION IS TO FIND -- THE
TWO
ASSOCIATION IS TO FIND -- THE TWO BASICS OF IT ARE TORONTO
AND
TWO BASICS OF IT ARE TORONTO AND NEW YORK CITY.
A
AND NEW YORK CITY. A NORTH AMERICAN VISION OF THE
MEDIA
A NORTH AMERICAN VISION OF THE MEDIA THAT WE CREATED.
ENOUGH
MEDIA THAT WE CREATED. ENOUGH WITH THE FRANKFURT
SCHOOL
ENOUGH WITH THE FRANKFURT SCHOOL FROM GERMANY, ENOUGH
WITH
SCHOOL FROM GERMANY, ENOUGH WITH THE -- THE FRENCH KNOW
NOTHING
WITH THE -- THE FRENCH KNOW NOTHING -- THEY KNOW NOTHING
ABOUT
NOTHING -- THEY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT AMERICAN CULTURE, THESE
PEOPLE.
THESE
PEOPLE. THESE ARE THE IDOLS ON CAMPUS.
SO
THESE ARE THE IDOLS ON CAMPUS. SO PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN
JOINING
SO PEOPLE WHO ARE INTERESTED IN JOINING US THIS ASSOCIATION,
PLEASE
JOINING US THIS ASSOCIATION, PLEASE LOOK AT THE WEBSITE
MEDIA
PLEASE LOOK AT THE WEBSITE MEDIA ECOLOGY ASSOCIATION HAS
ITS
MEDIA ECOLOGY ASSOCIATION HAS ITS WEBSITE AND FIVE YEARS OLD
NOW
ITS WEBSITE AND FIVE YEARS OLD NOW AND BOOMING.
>>
NOW AND BOOMING. >> CHATTANOOGA.
CALLER:
>> CHATTANOOGA. CALLER: YEAH, THANK YOU.
I
CALLER: YEAH, THANK YOU. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY
COMMENTS
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THE CONCEPT OF THE
SHADOW?
I
SHADOW? I DID NOT SEE MUCH IN YOUR WORK
WHEN
I DID NOT SEE MUCH IN YOUR WORK WHEN I READ IT, AND ALSO WHY DO
YOU
WHEN I READ IT, AND ALSO WHY DO YOU THINK TELEVISION HASN'T
BEEN
YOU THINK TELEVISION HASN'T BEEN A MORE EFFECTIVE TOOL IN
THE
BEEN A MORE EFFECTIVE TOOL IN THE CLASSROOM?
THANK
THE CLASSROOM? THANK YOU.
>>
THANK YOU. >> THE SHADOW?
>>
>> THE SHADOW? >> ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE
RADIO
>> ARE YOU REFERRING TO THE RADIO SHOW?
>>
RADIO SHOW? >> IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE
REFERRING
>> IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, CALLER?
CALLER,
REFERRING TO, CALLER? CALLER, ARE YOU STILL THERE?
>>
CALLER, ARE YOU STILL THERE? >> I HAVEN'T WRITTEN ANYTHING
ABOUT
>> I HAVEN'T WRITTEN ANYTHING ABOUT THE SHADOW, BUT
TELEVISION
ABOUT THE SHADOW, BUT TELEVISION IN THE CLASSROOM, I
AM
TELEVISION IN THE CLASSROOM, I AM A LITTLE BIT SKEPTICAL ABOUT
TELEVISION
AM A LITTLE BIT SKEPTICAL ABOUT TELEVISION IN THE CLASSROOM.
I
TELEVISION IN THE CLASSROOM. I THINK THAT STUDENTS ALREADY
HAVE
I THINK THAT STUDENTS ALREADY HAVE TOO MUCH TELEVISION
OUTSIDE
HAVE TOO MUCH TELEVISION OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOM.
THEY'RE
OUTSIDE THE CLASSROOM. THEY'RE RAISED WITH IT NOW.
I
THEY'RE RAISED WITH IT NOW. I LOVE TELEVISION.
I
I LOVE TELEVISION. I HAVE FIVE TELEVISIONS IN MY
HOUSE,
I HAVE FIVE TELEVISIONS IN MY HOUSE, AND SO I CAN'T -- I CAN
GO
HOUSE, AND SO I CAN'T -- I CAN GO THROUGH THE WHOLE HOUSE AND
NOT
GO THROUGH THE WHOLE HOUSE AND NOT MISS ANYTHING, BUT I FEEL
THE
NOT MISS ANYTHING, BUT I FEEL THE QUALITY OF TELEVISION IS
DECLINING
THE QUALITY OF TELEVISION IS DECLINING ENORMOUSLY.
I
DECLINING ENORMOUSLY. I FEEL THAT WHAT STUDENTS NEED
IS
I FEEL THAT WHAT STUDENTS NEED IS MUCH MORE TRAINING IN THE
OLD
IS MUCH MORE TRAINING IN THE OLD FUNDAMENTALS OF HOW TO READ
AND
OLD FUNDAMENTALS OF HOW TO READ AND WRITE.
I
AND WRITE. I THINK THAT THE STUDENTS ARE
GRADUATING
I THINK THAT THE STUDENTS ARE GRADUATING FROM SCHOOL THESE
DAYS
GRADUATING FROM SCHOOL THESE DAYS WITH -- ON PABLUM.
THE
DAYS WITH -- ON PABLUM. THE GRADUATES OF THE IVY
LEAGUE,
THE GRADUATES OF THE IVY LEAGUE, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES ARE
DRIFTING
LEAGUE, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES ARE DRIFTING INTO JOBS IN NEW YORK
AND
DRIFTING INTO JOBS IN NEW YORK AND THEIR GENERAL KNOWLEDGE,
CULTURAL
AND THEIR GENERAL KNOWLEDGE, CULTURAL KNOWLEDGE SEEMS TO
LIMITED.
THEY
LIMITED. THEY DON'T HAVE BASIC SKILLS.
EVEN
THEY DON'T HAVE BASIC SKILLS. EVEN SPELLING, KIDS KNOW HOW TO
WORK
EVEN SPELLING, KIDS KNOW HOW TO WORK THE COMPUTER, THEY'RE
MASTERS
WORK THE COMPUTER, THEY'RE MASTERS OF THE COMPUTER, BUT
WHAT
MASTERS OF THE COMPUTER, BUT WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS A
DECLINE
WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS A DECLINE IN BOOK WRITING AND ART
MAKING.
NOW
MAKING. NOW MY UNIVERSITY, THE
UNIVERSITY
NOW MY UNIVERSITY, THE UNIVERSITY OF THE ARTS, HAS --
I'VE
UNIVERSITY OF THE ARTS, HAS -- I'VE BEEN TEACHING 20 YEARS
NEXT
I'VE BEEN TEACHING 20 YEARS NEXT YEAR, HAS EVERY KIND OF
THE
NEXT YEAR, HAS EVERY KIND OF THE TRADITIONAL FINE ARTS OF
MAJOR
THE TRADITIONAL FINE ARTS OF MAJOR IN IT FROM ILLUSTRATION
TO
MAJOR IN IT FROM ILLUSTRATION TO CERAMICS INTO NEW THINGS
LIKE
TO CERAMICS INTO NEW THINGS LIKE WRITING FOR FILM AND TV,
JAZZ,
LIKE WRITING FOR FILM AND TV, JAZZ, DANCE, ACT, ALL KINDS OF
THINGS
JAZZ, DANCE, ACT, ALL KINDS OF THINGS AND SO ON AND THEY ALSO
HAVE
THINGS AND SO ON AND THEY ALSO HAVE WEB DESIGN AND WEB WORK,
AND
HAVE WEB DESIGN AND WEB WORK, AND THE PEOPLE -- MY STUDENTS
WHO
AND THE PEOPLE -- MY STUDENTS WHO ARE INTO THIS AREA ARE SO
FORWARD
WHO ARE INTO THIS AREA ARE SO FORWARD LOOKING.
THE
FORWARD LOOKING. THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING IN
ANIMATION
THE PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING IN ANIMATION ALSO, BUT I'M WORRIED
ABOUT
ANIMATION ALSO, BUT I'M WORRIED ABOUT THE -- ABOUT WHETHER THE
NEXT
ABOUT THE -- ABOUT WHETHER THE NEXT GENERATION, AND FOLLOWING
GENERATIONS
NEXT GENERATION, AND FOLLOWING GENERATIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE
ANY
GENERATIONS ARE GOING TO HAVE ANY INTEREST IN OR PATIENCE
WITH
ANY INTEREST IN OR PATIENCE WITH THE ARTIFACT, THE ARTIFACT
OF
WITH THE ARTIFACT, THE ARTIFACT OF THE BOOK, THE ARTIFACT OF
THE
OF THE BOOK, THE ARTIFACT OF THE PAINTING OR THE FREE
STANDING
THE PAINTING OR THE FREE STANDING SCUM -- FREESTANDING
SCULPTURE.
I
SCULPTURE. I THINK WE'RE HEADED FOR A
EDUCATION
I THINK WE'RE HEADED FOR A EDUCATION WASTE LAND IF WE
DON'T
EDUCATION WASTE LAND IF WE DON'T GET BACK TO BASICS AND
AGREE
DON'T GET BACK TO BASICS AND AGREE ABOUT THE HISTORICAL LINE
OF
AGREE ABOUT THE HISTORICAL LINE OF WHAT'S -- AND I DON'T JUST
BELIEVE
OF WHAT'S -- AND I DON'T JUST BELIEVE IN WESTERN CULTURE
BEING
BELIEVE IN WESTERN CULTURE BEING TAUGHT.
I
BEING TAUGHT. I AM A MULTICULTURIST IN THAT I
BELIEVE
I AM A MULTICULTURIST IN THAT I BELIEVE WE MUST HAVE THE KIND
OF
BELIEVE WE MUST HAVE THE KIND OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE IN
EDUCATION
OF GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE IN EDUCATION BUT I HAVE SAID FOR
13
EDUCATION BUT I HAVE SAID FOR 13 YEARS NOW SINCE I CAME ON
THE
13 YEARS NOW SINCE I CAME ON THE PUBLIC SCENE THAT WE NEED
TO
THE PUBLIC SCENE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A SENSE OF TRADITION,
HISTORY,
TO HAVE A SENSE OF TRADITION, HISTORY, CHRONOLOGY, THINGS
MOVING
HISTORY, CHRONOLOGY, THINGS MOVING DOWN IN TIME.
THE
MOVING DOWN IN TIME. THE WAY KIDS ARE BEING TAUGHT
TODAY
THE WAY KIDS ARE BEING TAUGHT TODAY IS VERY AHYSTERICAL.
THEY'RE
TODAY IS VERY AHYSTERICAL. THEY'RE NEVER TAUGHT A DATE.
HAVE
THEY'RE NEVER TAUGHT A DATE. HAVE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.
EVERYTHING
HAVE NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. EVERYTHING IS CLUSTERED IN THE
PRESENT.
THEY
PRESENT. THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF TIME OR
HOW
THEY HAVE NO CONCEPT OF TIME OR HOW LARGE THE WORLD IS.
.
SO
. SO I
. SO I WOULD SAY THAT TELEVISION
WITH
SO I WOULD SAY THAT TELEVISION WITH VERY LITTLE TELEVISION,
PLEASE,
WITH VERY LITTLE TELEVISION, PLEASE, I THINK IN EDUCATION.
IT'S
PLEASE, I THINK IN EDUCATION. IT'S TOO SIMPLE A CRUTCH FOR
TEACHERS
IT'S TOO SIMPLE A CRUTCH FOR TEACHERS TO GAIN STUDENT
ATTENTION.
>>
ATTENTION. >> AN EMAIL QUESTION TO YOU.
WE
>> AN EMAIL QUESTION TO YOU. WE KNOW FROM ALL OF YOUR BOOKS
THAT
WE KNOW FROM ALL OF YOUR BOOKS THAT KATHERINE HEPBURN WAS AN
IMPORTANT
THAT KATHERINE HEPBURN WAS AN IMPORTANT PERSON IN YOUR
THINKING
IMPORTANT PERSON IN YOUR THINKING AND TEACHING.
>>
THINKING AND TEACHING. >> SHE WAS MY FIRST GREAT ROLE
MODEL.
WHEN
MODEL. WHEN I -- I SAW A LATE NIGHT
MOVIE
WHEN I -- I SAW A LATE NIGHT MOVIE OF HERS WHEN I WAS 12, I
BECAME
MOVIE OF HERS WHEN I WAS 12, I BECAME MAD FOR HER.
MAD
BECAME MAD FOR HER. MAD FOR HEPBURN.
>>
MAD FOR HEPBURN. >> WHY?
>>
>> WHY? >> SHE WAS -- I DIDN'T KNOW
WHAT
>> SHE WAS -- I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IT WAS.
I
WHAT IT WAS. I THOUGHT WHAT IS THIS ENERGY
THAT'S
I THOUGHT WHAT IS THIS ENERGY THAT'S COMING OUT OF HER?
I
THAT'S COMING OUT OF HER? I REALIZED IT WAS THE SPIRIT OF
THESE
I REALIZED IT WAS THE SPIRIT OF THESE WOMEN OF THE 1 20'S AND
1930'S
THESE WOMEN OF THE 1 20'S AND 1930'S THAT HAD BEEN LOST IN
THE
1930'S THAT HAD BEEN LOST IN THE POST WAR ERA AFTER THE
VETERANS
THE POST WAR ERA AFTER THE VETERANS HAD COME BACK AND SO
FORTH.
SO
FORTH. SO I BECAME FIXATED ON THAT
PERIOD
SO I BECAME FIXATED ON THAT PERIOD AND WE NOW KNOW -- WE
DIDN'T
PERIOD AND WE NOW KNOW -- WE DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME, THAT
KATHERINE
DIDN'T KNOW AT THE TIME, THAT KATHERINE HEPBURN'S OWN MOTHER
HAD
KATHERINE HEPBURN'S OWN MOTHER HAD BEEN AN AROUNDENT -- A
SUFFER
HAD BEEN AN AROUNDENT -- A SUFFER JET.
HEPBURN
SUFFER JET. HEPBURN HERSELF HAD MARCHED IN
THESE
HEPBURN HERSELF HAD MARCHED IN THESE PARADES AS A CHILD.
GIVEN
THESE PARADES AS A CHILD. GIVEN OUT BALLOONS AND SO ON.
HER
GIVEN OUT BALLOONS AND SO ON. HER AUNT WAS EVEN MORE RADICAL
FEMINIST.
SO
FEMINIST. SO I FELT THE FEMINIST SPIRIT
FROM
SO I FELT THE FEMINIST SPIRIT FROM KATHERINE HEPBURN LEAPING
OFF
FROM KATHERINE HEPBURN LEAPING OFF THAT TV SCREEN.
THESE
OFF THAT TV SCREEN. THESE OLD MOVIES, AND I -- AND
I
THESE OLD MOVIES, AND I -- AND I CONSTRUCTED A GRAPH OF ALL
THE
I CONSTRUCTED A GRAPH OF ALL THE HEPBURN FILMS EVER MADE I
GOT
THE HEPBURN FILMS EVER MADE I GOT FROM THE LIBRARY AND I
CHECKED,
GOT FROM THE LIBRARY AND I CHECKED, TRIED TO SEE THEM ALL.
AT
CHECKED, TRIED TO SEE THEM ALL. AT THAT TIME YOU COULDN'T GET
MUCH
AT THAT TIME YOU COULDN'T GET MUCH INFORMATION ABOUT POPULAR
CULTURE.
POPULAR
CULTURE. POPULAR CULTURE WAS STILL THIS
MYTH.
SO
MYTH. SO MY INTEREST IN THE MEDIA WAS
--
SO MY INTEREST IN THE MEDIA WAS -- IN OLD HOLLYWOOD FILMS WAS
SOMETHING
-- IN OLD HOLLYWOOD FILMS WAS SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T SHARE -- I
HAD
SOMETHING YOU DIDN'T SHARE -- I HAD NO ONE TO SHARE IT WITH
EXCEPT
HAD NO ONE TO SHARE IT WITH EXCEPT GAY GUYS.
SHE
EXCEPT GAY GUYS. SHE LIVED A VERY LONG TIME BUT
I
SHE LIVED A VERY LONG TIME BUT I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH WOMEN
WHO
I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH WOMEN WHO ARE SAYING NOW THAT SHE WAS
ONE
WHO ARE SAYING NOW THAT SHE WAS ONE OF THE WOMEN OF THE CENTURY
BUT
ONE OF THE WOMEN OF THE CENTURY BUT SHE IS NOT A WOMAN WHO WAS
A
BUT SHE IS NOT A WOMAN WHO WAS A MOTHER.
SHE
A MOTHER. SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO BRIDGE THE
ROLES
SHE WAS NOT ABLE TO BRIDGE THE ROLES OF THE PROFESSIONAL WOMAN
WITH
ROLES OF THE PROFESSIONAL WOMAN WITH THE WOMAN WHO IS THE --
WHO
WITH THE WOMAN WHO IS THE -- WHO WAS REALLY A MORE
TRADITIONAL
WHO WAS REALLY A MORE TRADITIONAL WIFE AND MOTHER.
I
TRADITIONAL WIFE AND MOTHER. I THY IT'S VERY, VERY DIFFICULT
.
THAT'S
. THAT'S THE TREMENDOUS
DIFFICULTY
THAT'S THE TREMENDOUS DIFFICULTY I THINK WE'RE FACING
AS
DIFFICULTY I THINK WE'RE FACING AS A RESULT.
THE
AS A RESULT. THE CHILD IS SO NEEDY.
THE
THE CHILD IS SO NEEDY. THE CHILD IS THIS -- YOU KNOW,
WANTS
THE CHILD IS THIS -- YOU KNOW, WANTS AS MUCH ATTENTION AS
POSSIBLE.
I
POSSIBLE. I DON'T AGREE WITH THE OLD
FEMINIST
I DON'T AGREE WITH THE OLD FEMINIST POSITION THAT WE NEED
ENDLESS
FEMINIST POSITION THAT WE NEED ENDLESS GOVERNMENT DAYCARE
CENTERS.
I
CENTERS. I DON'T THINK THAT THAT KIND OF
WAREHOUSING
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT KIND OF WAREHOUSING OF KIDS IS THE
RIGHT-MONTH-OLDS.
I
RIGHT-MONTH-OLDS. I CAME OUT OF AN ITALIAN
BACKGROUND
I CAME OUT OF AN ITALIAN BACKGROUND WHERE CHILDREN WERE
MADE
BACKGROUND WHERE CHILDREN WERE MADE ENORMOUS -- THE CENTER OF
ATTENTION.
AT
ATTENTION. AT THE SAME TIME THEY WERE VERY
DISCIPLINED.
OK.
SO
OK. SO THE MID TRAINING CULTURES IN
NECESSARY
SO THE MID TRAINING CULTURES IN NECESSARY LIKE THE LATINO
CULTURE
NECESSARY LIKE THE LATINO CULTURE TODAY OR THE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN
CULTURE TODAY OR THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN CULTURE, IS
VERY
AFRICAN-AMERICAN CULTURE, IS VERY CHILD CENTERED.
I
VERY CHILD CENTERED. I THINK WE BEGAN TO MOVE AWAY
FROM
I THINK WE BEGAN TO MOVE AWAY FROM THAT WITH FEMINISM WITH
THE
FROM THAT WITH FEMINISM WITH THE INFATUATION OF THE CAREER
WOMAN
THE INFATUATION OF THE CAREER WOMAN THROUGH A VERY LONG
PERIOD
WOMAN THROUGH A VERY LONG PERIOD THERE.
>>
PERIOD THERE. >> SAN FRANCISCO.
CALLER:,
>> SAN FRANCISCO. CALLER:, I WOULD LIKE TO THAT I
CAMILLE
CALLER:, I WOULD LIKE TO THAT I CAMILLE FOR HAVING THE COURAGE
TO
CAMILLE FOR HAVING THE COURAGE TO BE HERSELF THROUGHOUT ALL
THE
TO BE HERSELF THROUGHOUT ALL THE YEARS AND MY QUESTION IS,
WHAT
THE YEARS AND MY QUESTION IS, WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR SOCIETY
AT
WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR SOCIETY AT LARGE TO SEE THROUGH THE
ILLUSIONS
AT LARGE TO SEE THROUGH THE ILLUSIONS CREATED BY OUR
SINGULAR
ILLUSIONS CREATED BY OUR SINGULAR PHYSICAL GENDER AND
INTO
SINGULAR PHYSICAL GENDER AND INTO THE DUAL SEX DOMAIN OF THE
PSYCHE
INTO THE DUAL SEX DOMAIN OF THE PSYCHE OF THE INDIVIDUAL?
>>
PSYCHE OF THE INDIVIDUAL? >> WELL, I BELIEVE THERE MAY BE
A
>> WELL, I BELIEVE THERE MAY BE A PROBLEM HERE, THAT IS THAT
IT'S
A PROBLEM HERE, THAT IS THAT IT'S -- THAT THE REALM OF ART
IS
IT'S -- THAT THE REALM OF ART IS WHERE ONE EXPLORES THE
AMBIGUITY
IS WHERE ONE EXPLORES THE AMBIGUITY OF GENDER AND ALSO
THE
AMBIGUITY OF GENDER AND ALSO THE PRIVATE REALM THAT I'VE
SPOKEN
THE PRIVATE REALM THAT I'VE SPOKEN OF EARLIER.
I'M
SPOKEN OF EARLIER. I'M NOT SURE TO WHAT DEGREE WE
CAN
I'M NOT SURE TO WHAT DEGREE WE CAN EXPORT THESE IDEAS INTO THE
PUBLIC
CAN EXPORT THESE IDEAS INTO THE PUBLIC REALM WITHOUT
DISORDERING
PUBLIC REALM WITHOUT DISORDERING IT, AND I WORRY
BECAUSE
DISORDERING IT, AND I WORRY BECAUSE AS A STUDENT OF HISTORY
I
BECAUSE AS A STUDENT OF HISTORY I HAVE SEEN THAT EVERY TIME A
CULTURE
I HAVE SEEN THAT EVERY TIME A CULTURE GETS SUPPOSED
SOPHISTICATED
CULTURE GETS SUPPOSED SOPHISTICATED AND OPEN AND
TOLERANT
SOPHISTICATED AND OPEN AND TOLERANT TOWARD ALTERNATE
LIFESTYLES,
TOLERANT TOWARD ALTERNATE LIFESTYLES, TOWARD GAY
MARRIAGES,
LIFESTYLES, TOWARD GAY MARRIAGES, TOWARD SEX CHANGES,
IT'S
MARRIAGES, TOWARD SEX CHANGES, IT'S USUALLY A DECADENCE
CULTURE
IT'S USUALLY A DECADENCE CULTURE THAT'S ON THE VERGE OF
COLLAPSE
CULTURE THAT'S ON THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE LIKE ANCIENT ROME.
SO
COLLAPSE LIKE ANCIENT ROME. SO I'M WORRIED ABOUT THAT.
IT'S
SO I'M WORRIED ABOUT THAT. IT'S A BOOK I'M CONSTANTLY
ASKING
IT'S A BOOK I'M CONSTANTLY ASKING IN MY BOOK IS ENTITLED
"SEXUAL
ASKING IN MY BOOK IS ENTITLED "SEXUAL PERSONAE: ART AND
DECADENCE
"SEXUAL PERSONAE: ART AND DECADENCE FROM NEFERTITI TO
EMILY
DECADENCE FROM NEFERTITI TO EMILY DICKINSON."
I
EMILY DICKINSON." I LOVE DECADENCE.
I
I LOVE DECADENCE. I ADMIRE IT AS A COMPLEX
HISTORICAL
I ADMIRE IT AS A COMPLEX HISTORICAL MODE.
BUT
HISTORICAL MODE. BUT I'M WORRIED.
WHEN
BUT I'M WORRIED. WHEN CONSERVATIVES SPEAK ABOUT
THE
WHEN CONSERVATIVES SPEAK ABOUT THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA THEY'RE
RIGHT
THE HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA THEY'RE RIGHT WHEN THEY SPEAK ABOUT THE
PERMEATION
RIGHT WHEN THEY SPEAK ABOUT THE PERMEATION AS A FUSION OF OUR
--
PERMEATION AS A FUSION OF OUR -- OF THE MEDIA WITH, YOU KNOW,
PRO
-- OF THE MEDIA WITH, YOU KNOW, PRO COOLBAUGH SLOGANS AND PRO
GAY
PRO COOLBAUGH SLOGANS AND PRO GAY MESSAGES.
THEY'RE
GAY MESSAGES. THEY'RE RIGHT.
AND
THEY'RE RIGHT. AND AT A TIME WHEN KNOWLEDGE OF
THE
AND AT A TIME WHEN KNOWLEDGE OF THE BIBLE, WHICH I'M AN
ATHEIST,
THE BIBLE, WHICH I'M AN ATHEIST, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN
THE
ATHEIST, I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD,
BUT
THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD, BUT THE BIBLE IS A MAGNIFICENT
WORK
BUT THE BIBLE IS A MAGNIFICENT WORK OF ART, ONE OF THE
GREATEST
WORK OF ART, ONE OF THE GREATEST EVER CREATED.
IT'S
GREATEST EVER CREATED. IT'S FULL OF MESSAGES AND
CONSOLATION
IT'S FULL OF MESSAGES AND CONSOLATION FOR TIMES OF LIFE,
OK,
CONSOLATION FOR TIMES OF LIFE, OK, WHERE -- IF TROUBLE AND SO
ON.
I
ON. I WORRY ABOUT A CULTURE WHERE
KNOWLEDGE
I WORRY ABOUT A CULTURE WHERE KNOWLEDGE OF THE BIBLE IS
SLIPPING
KNOWLEDGE OF THE BIBLE IS SLIPPING AWAY EVEN AMONG THE
RELIGIOUS,
SLIPPING AWAY EVEN AMONG THE RELIGIOUS, WHEREAS WE HAVE
THESE
RELIGIOUS, WHEREAS WE HAVE THESE TRASHY SHOWS THAT ARE
ENTERTAINING,
THESE TRASHY SHOWS THAT ARE ENTERTAINING, ADMITSY ABOUT,
YOU
ENTERTAINING, ADMITSY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, "QUEER EYE FOR THE
STRAIGHT
YOU KNOW, "QUEER EYE FOR THE STRAIGHT GUY" AND ALL THAT KIND
OF
STRAIGHT GUY" AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING.
MAY
OF THING. MAY SEEM LIKE THIS IS GOOD.
I
MAY SEEM LIKE THIS IS GOOD. I WORRY ABOUT A MASSIVE
BACKLASH
I WORRY ABOUT A MASSIVE BACKLASH BECAUSE THE RISE OF
CHRISTIANITY
BACKLASH BECAUSE THE RISE OF CHRISTIANITY WAS THAT BACKLASH
AGAINST
CHRISTIANITY WAS THAT BACKLASH AGAINST GRECO ROMAN PAGANISM
AND
AGAINST GRECO ROMAN PAGANISM AND IT'S NOW 2000 YEARS LATER,
THE
AND IT'S NOW 2000 YEARS LATER, THE IDEA THAT A PROGRESSIVE
CULTURE
THE IDEA THAT A PROGRESSIVE CULTURE CAN SUSTAIN ITSELF IN
THIS
CULTURE CAN SUSTAIN ITSELF IN THIS KIND OF THEATRICAL WAY,
AFTER
THIS KIND OF THEATRICAL WAY, AFTER ALL I DRESSED IN MY
TRANSVESTITE
AFTER ALL I DRESSED IN MY TRANSVESTITE HALLOWEEN COSTUMES
ONE
TRANSVESTITE HALLOWEEN COSTUMES ONE DAY A YEAR.
I
ONE DAY A YEAR. I WASN'T WEARING THOSE COSTUMES
EVERY
I WASN'T WEARING THOSE COSTUMES EVERY DAY.
SO
EVERY DAY. SO I THINK THAT THESE QUESTIONS
NEED
SO I THINK THAT THESE QUESTIONS NEED TO BE ASKED MUCH MORE BY
PEOPLE
NEED TO BE ASKED MUCH MORE BY PEOPLE WHO ARE THE
TRANSGENDERED
PEOPLE WHO ARE THE TRANSGENDERED SIDE, WHO THE GAY
ACTIVIST
TRANSGENDERED SIDE, WHO THE GAY ACTIVIST SIDE, MUST STUDY
HISTORY,
ACTIVIST SIDE, MUST STUDY HISTORY, STUDY HISTORY.
NOTHING
HISTORY, STUDY HISTORY. NOTHING EVER LASTS, AND WHAT
COMES
NOTHING EVER LASTS, AND WHAT COMES AFTER YOU MAY BE FAR
WORSE
COMES AFTER YOU MAY BE FAR WORSE THAN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING
TO
WORSE THAN WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO REFORM RIGHT NOW.
>>
TO REFORM RIGHT NOW. >> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE
GROWING
>> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THE GROWING ANTI-AMERICANISM
OVERSEAS?
>>
OVERSEAS? >> OH, THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY.
OH,
>> OH, THIS DRIVES ME CRAZY. OH, MY GOD.
THIS
OH, MY GOD. THIS IS ONE OF THE -- ONE OF MY
PROBLEMS
THIS IS ONE OF THE -- ONE OF MY PROBLEMS WITH THE INCURSION
INTO
PROBLEMS WITH THE INCURSION INTO IRAQ.
IS
INTO IRAQ. IS THIS TREMENDOUS INFLAMMATION
OF
IS THIS TREMENDOUS INFLAMMATION OF ANTI-AMERICANISM AROUND THE
WORLD.
I
WORLD. I THINK THIS IS A TERRIBLE
LEGACY
I THINK THIS IS A TERRIBLE LEGACY THAT HAS COME OF THIS,
AND
LEGACY THAT HAS COME OF THIS, AND I -- FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR
THE
AND I -- FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR THE FOREIGN PRESS TRIED TO GET
ME
THE FOREIGN PRESS TRIED TO GET ME REPEATEDLY TO WRITE THINGS
OR
ME REPEATEDLY TO WRITE THINGS OR TO COMMENT TO REPORTERS
ABOUT
OR TO COMMENT TO REPORTERS ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF WAR IN
IRAQ.
I
IRAQ. I REFUSED, OK.
I
I REFUSED, OK. I FEEL IT'S WRONG FOR AMERICAN
INTELLECTUALS
I FEEL IT'S WRONG FOR AMERICAN INTELLECTUALS TO PROGRESS THIS
ANTI-AMERICAN
INTELLECTUALS TO PROGRESS THIS ANTI-AMERICAN FEELING ABROAD.
I
ANTI-AMERICAN FEELING ABROAD. I FINALLY DID EXPRESS MY
INTERVIEWS
I FINALLY DID EXPRESS MY INTERVIEWS TO DAVID TALBOTT
EARLIER
INTERVIEWS TO DAVID TALBOTT EARLIER THIS YEAR FOR "SALON."
BUT
EARLIER THIS YEAR FOR "SALON." BUT I AM HIGHLY CRITICAL OF
INTELLECTUALS
BUT I AM HIGHLY CRITICAL OF INTELLECTUALS WHO HAVE MADE A
CAREER
INTELLECTUALS WHO HAVE MADE A CAREER OF GOING AROUND THE
WORLD
CAREER OF GOING AROUND THE WORLD -- YOU KNOW, YOU ARE --
YOU
WORLD -- YOU KNOW, YOU ARE -- YOU CAN BE ACCLAIMED, THE
MINUTE
YOU CAN BE ACCLAIMED, THE MINUTE YOU SAY ANYTHING
ANTI-AMERICAN
MINUTE YOU SAY ANYTHING ANTI-AMERICAN ABROAD PEOPLE
WILL
ANTI-AMERICAN ABROAD PEOPLE WILL LAY TREASURE AT YOUR FEET
TO
WILL LAY TREASURE AT YOUR FEET TO DO THAT.
SO
TO DO THAT. SO WHEN THE DICTSY CHICKS WENT
OVER
SO WHEN THE DICTSY CHICKS WENT OVER THERE, I FEEL THAT THE
DIXIE
OVER THERE, I FEEL THAT THE DIXIE CHICKS HAVE A RIGHT TO
SAY
DIXIE CHICKS HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT I
DON'T
SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT, BUT I DON'T THINK IS WAS RIGHT FOR
THE
DON'T THINK IS WAS RIGHT FOR THE DIXIE CHICKS TO SAY THAT AT
ENGLAND
THE DIXIE CHICKS TO SAY THAT AT ENGLAND AT A PERFORMANCE TO GET
A
ENGLAND AT A PERFORMANCE TO GET A GOOD RESPONSE FROM THE
AUDIENCE.
I
AUDIENCE. I WANT THE DIXIE CHICKS TO COME
BACK
I WANT THE DIXIE CHICKS TO COME BACK HERE AND SAY IT WHEREVER
IN
BACK HERE AND SAY IT WHEREVER IN AMERICA.
>>
IN AMERICA. >> AND YOU'RE FINE WITH THAT?
>>
>> AND YOU'RE FINE WITH THAT? >> THEY HAD A RIGHT TO SAY IT
IN
>> THEY HAD A RIGHT TO SAY IT IN GLEAND, TOO.
AND
IN GLEAND, TOO. AND SHOULD NOT BE CRITICIZED
FOR
AND SHOULD NOT BE CRITICIZED FOR THAT.
OTHER
FOR THAT. OTHER THAN, PEOPLE WHO WANT TO
BOYCOTT
OTHER THAN, PEOPLE WHO WANT TO BOYCOTT THEM ALSO HAVE A RIGHT
BUT
BOYCOTT THEM ALSO HAVE A RIGHT BUT I THINK IT'S JUST -- THERE
IS
BUT I THINK IT'S JUST -- THERE IS A DEEP ANTI-AMERICANISM IN
THE
IS A DEEP ANTI-AMERICANISM IN THE WAY IT'S CAUGHT ON CAMPUS.
I
THE WAY IT'S CAUGHT ON CAMPUS. I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE
TO
I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE TO RAISE THIS ISSUE, BY THE
WAY,
TO RAISE THIS ISSUE, BY THE WAY, IN MY ESSAY WHICH THE
PROGRESSIVE
WAY, IN MY ESSAY WHICH THE PROGRESSIVE EDITOR HERBERT
GOLDER
PROGRESSIVE EDITOR HERBERT GOLDER PUBLISHED, IT'S LONG A
LONG
GOLDER PUBLISHED, IT'S LONG A LONG ESSAY.
ONE
LONG ESSAY. ONE OF MY FIRST ESSAY
COLLECTION,
ONE OF MY FIRST ESSAY COLLECTION, "SEX, ART, AND
AMERICAN
COLLECTION, "SEX, ART, AND AMERICAN CULTURE," BUT I
ATTACKED
AMERICAN CULTURE," BUT I ATTACKED THE ANTI-AMERICANISM
OF
ATTACKED THE ANTI-AMERICANISM OF THE THEORISTS SO ARE WHO
ENAMORED
OF THE THEORISTS SO ARE WHO ENAMORED WITH MICHELLE FUCO.
IN
ENAMORED WITH MICHELLE FUCO. IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF "SEXUAL
PERSONAE,"
IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF "SEXUAL PERSONAE," I SAY IT'S UTTERLY
HYPOCRITICAL
PERSONAE," I SAY IT'S UTTERLY HYPOCRITICAL FOR THEM TO SNEER
AT
HYPOCRITICAL FOR THEM TO SNEER AT CAPITALISM WHILE CRITICIZING
IT.
--
IT. -- WHILE ENJOYING CAPITALISM.
MY
-- WHILE ENJOYING CAPITALISM. MY FAMILY HAS A TREMENDOUS LOVE
OF
MY FAMILY HAS A TREMENDOUS LOVE OF AMERICA BUT I THINK WHAT'S
HAPPENING
OF AMERICA BUT I THINK WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, BECAUSE -- WITH
THE
HAPPENING NOW, BECAUSE -- WITH THE IRAQ ISSUE UNRESOLVED IS A
TERRIBLE
THE IRAQ ISSUE UNRESOLVED IS A TERRIBLE KIND OF AMERICAN
BOOSTERISM,
TERRIBLE KIND OF AMERICAN BOOSTERISM, SORT OF YOU'RE FOR
US
BOOSTERISM, SORT OF YOU'RE FOR US OR AGAINST US, COMING OUT
FROM
US OR AGAINST US, COMING OUT FROM CONSERVATIVE VOICES ON
TALK
FROM CONSERVATIVE VOICES ON TALK RADIO, AND I MEAN, PEOPLE
ARE
TALK RADIO, AND I MEAN, PEOPLE ARE NOT UNPATRIOTIC FOR
CRITICIZING
ARE NOT UNPATRIOTIC FOR CRITICIZING THE IRAQ WAR.
IT'S
CRITICIZING THE IRAQ WAR. IT'S NOT -- YOU'RE NOT PRO
SADDAM
IT'S NOT -- YOU'RE NOT PRO SADDAM OR ANTI-BUSH BY
CRITICIZING
SADDAM OR ANTI-BUSH BY CRITICIZING THE, YOU KNOW,
GOVERNMENT
CRITICIZING THE, YOU KNOW, GOVERNMENT POLICY, SO I THINK
THAT
GOVERNMENT POLICY, SO I THINK THAT THE PATRIOTISM ISSUE HAS
BECOME
THAT THE PATRIOTISM ISSUE HAS BECOME MORE INFLAMED THAT AT
ANY
BECOME MORE INFLAMED THAT AT ANY TIME SINCE THE VIETNAMESE
WAR.
>>
WAR. >> WELL, I WANT TO GET TO THIS
NEXT
>> WELL, I WANT TO GET TO THIS NEXT CALLER BUT THERE IS
ANOTHER
NEXT CALLER BUT THERE IS ANOTHER EMAIL HERE.
DO
ANOTHER EMAIL HERE. DO YOU THINK THAT BROADCASTING
OF
DO YOU THINK THAT BROADCASTING OF YOUR SOCIAL MESSAGES ARE
FUELING
OF YOUR SOCIAL MESSAGES ARE FUELING ISLAMISM?
YOURS?
>>
YOURS? >> MINE?
>>
>> MINE? >> MM-HMM.
>>
>> MM-HMM. >> WELL, I HAVE WRITTEN, SINCE
THE
>> WELL, I HAVE WRITTEN, SINCE THE EARLY 1990'S, I HAVE TALKED
ABOUT
THE EARLY 1990'S, I HAVE TALKED ABOUT -- MY PROPOSAL FOR REFORM
OF
ABOUT -- MY PROPOSAL FOR REFORM OF EDUCATION, NOT JUST IN
AMERICA,
OF EDUCATION, NOT JUST IN AMERICA, BUT ON THE GLOBAL
STAGE,
AMERICA, BUT ON THE GLOBAL STAGE, WAS COMPARATIVE
RELIGION.
I
RELIGION. I BELIEVE THAT THE RELIGIONS,
EVEN
I BELIEVE THAT THE RELIGIONS, EVEN THOUGH I'M AN ATHEIST, I
BELIEVE
EVEN THOUGH I'M AN ATHEIST, I BELIEVE THAT THE STUDY OF WORLD
RELIGIONS,
BELIEVE THAT THE STUDY OF WORLD RELIGIONS, CHRISTIANITY, ISLAM,
HINDUISM
RELIGIONS, CHRISTIANITY, ISLAM, HINDUISM AND INTO DISMAL,
THAT'S
HINDUISM AND INTO DISMAL, THAT'S THE KEY TO WORLD
UNDERSTANDING,
THAT'S THE KEY TO WORLD UNDERSTANDING, ALL RIGHT, BUT
I'M
UNDERSTANDING, ALL RIGHT, BUT I'M AFRAID, OK, THAT MY
CONFIDENCE
I'M AFRAID, OK, THAT MY CONFIDENCE THAT -- IN ISLAM WAS
SHAKEN
CONFIDENCE THAT -- IN ISLAM WAS SHAKEN BY THE ABSENCE OF
SIGNIFICANT
SHAKEN BY THE ABSENCE OF SIGNIFICANT PROTEST AMONG, YOU
KNOW,
SIGNIFICANT PROTEST AMONG, YOU KNOW, MUSLIMS IN THE YEAR
FOLLOWING
KNOW, MUSLIMS IN THE YEAR FOLLOWING THE ATTACK ON THE
WORLD
FOLLOWING THE ATTACK ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER.
I
WORLD TRADE CENTER. I BECAME VERY UNEASY BY THAT.
I
I BECAME VERY UNEASY BY THAT. I COULD NOT -- I FELT THAT THE
ENORMOUS
I COULD NOT -- I FELT THAT THE ENORMOUS MASS OF MUSLIMS ARE
PEACEABLE.
THEY
PEACEABLE. THEY ARE PEACEFUL, BUT
OBVIOUSLY
THEY ARE PEACEFUL, BUT OBVIOUSLY THE WAY ISLAM IS
CONSTRUCTED
OBVIOUSLY THE WAY ISLAM IS CONSTRUCTED IN THIS KIND OF NON
HIERARCHICAL,
CONSTRUCTED IN THIS KIND OF NON HIERARCHICAL, NONCENTRALIZED
WAY
HIERARCHICAL, NONCENTRALIZED WAY AS OPPOSED TO THE ROMAN
CATHOLIC
WAY AS OPPOSED TO THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, THAT WHAT YOU
HAVE
CATHOLIC CHURCH, THAT WHAT YOU HAVE IS AN INTENSE AND INFLAMED
MINORITY,
HAVE IS AN INTENSE AND INFLAMED MINORITY, OK, THE ISLAMISTS WHO
INTEND
MINORITY, OK, THE ISLAMISTS WHO INTEND THE DESTRUCTION OF
WESTERN
INTEND THE DESTRUCTION OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION BEING
ESSENTIALLY
WESTERN CIVILIZATION BEING ESSENTIALLY UNCONTROLLED WITHIN
THAT
ESSENTIALLY UNCONTROLLED WITHIN THAT RELIGION.
SO
THAT RELIGION. SO I HAVE BECOME EXTREMELY
UNEASY
SO I HAVE BECOME EXTREMELY UNEASY ABOUT -- BY TRENDS IN
ISLAM
UNEASY ABOUT -- BY TRENDS IN ISLAM AND AGAIN, I'M SOMEONE
WHO
ISLAM AND AGAIN, I'M SOMEONE WHO READS HISTORY, SO I LOOK AT
900
WHO READS HISTORY, SO I LOOK AT 900 OR 300-YEAR CYCLES.
LIKE
900 OR 300-YEAR CYCLES. LIKE THE HISTORY OF THE
BYZANTINE.
SO,
BYZANTINE. SO, I'M LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD
AND
SO, I'M LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD AND DOWN IF ROAD, I SEE AN IRAQ
INCURSION
AND DOWN IF ROAD, I SEE AN IRAQ INCURSION AS CAUSING A
PERPETUATION
INCURSION AS CAUSING A PERPETUATION OF THE KINDS OF
ISLAMIC
PERPETUATION OF THE KINDS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM THAT ATTACKED
THE
ISLAMIC TERRORISM THAT ATTACKED THE WORLD TRADE CENTER.
I
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK
THAT
I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK THAT THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO, TO
PUT
THAT THIS WAS THE WAY TO GO, TO PUT OUR TANKS INTO BAGHDAD, OK?
I
PUT OUR TANKS INTO BAGHDAD, OK? I DON'T THINK IT WAS THE WAY TO
DIFFUSE
I DON'T THINK IT WAS THE WAY TO DIFFUSE THE ANTI-AMERICANISM IN
ISLAMIC
DIFFUSE THE ANTI-AMERICANISM IN ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM.
>>
ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISM. >> LET'S GET TO THAT PHONE CALL.
SAN
>> LET'S GET TO THAT PHONE CALL. SAN ANTONIO, THANK YOU FOR
WAITING.
YOU'RE
WAITING. YOU'RE ON WITH CAMILLE PAG LEAH.
CALLER:
YOU'RE ON WITH CAMILLE PAG LEAH. CALLER: DR. PAG LEAH?
>>
CALLER: DR. PAG LEAH? >> YES.
CALLER:
>> YES. CALLER: I LOVE YOU.
YOU
CALLER: I LOVE YOU. YOU ARE ONE OF MY FAVORITE
COLUMNISTS.
THERE'S
COLUMNISTS. THERE'S HUNTER THOMSON, RUSH
LIMBAUGH
THERE'S HUNTER THOMSON, RUSH LIMBAUGH AND YOU.
>>
LIMBAUGH AND YOU. >> THANKS.
CALLER:
>> THANKS. CALLER: I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO
READ
CALLER: I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE TO READ YOU AT NOW.
WHAT
READ YOU AT NOW. WHAT ARE YOU DOING?
I
WHAT ARE YOU DOING? I GUESS IN TERMS OF A REGULAR
COLUMN.
>>
COLUMN. >> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
YOUR
>> WELL, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR REMARK.
I
YOUR REMARK. I JUST REALIZED I NEED TO WRITE
BOOKS.
I'M
BOOKS. I'M CURRENTLY FINISHING A BOOK
ON
I'M CURRENTLY FINISHING A BOOK ON POETRY FOR PANMENT THAT
BOOKS,
ON POETRY FOR PANMENT THAT BOOKS, I'VE BEEN WRITING IT FOR
THREE
BOOKS, I'VE BEEN WRITING IT FOR THREE YEARS BECAUSE I FEEL IT IS
IMPORTANT
THREE YEARS BECAUSE I FEEL IT IS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO GO BACK TO
BOOKS.
I'M
BOOKS. I'M WRITING AN OCCASIONAL COLUMN
FOR
I'M WRITING AN OCCASIONAL COLUMN FOR A MAGAZINE WHERE I'M A
CONTRIBUTING
FOR A MAGAZINE WHERE I'M A CONTRIBUTING EDITOR.
OCCASIONALLY
CONTRIBUTING EDITOR. OCCASIONALLY I DO A BOOK REVIEW
AND
OCCASIONALLY I DO A BOOK REVIEW AND SO ON.
BUT
AND SO ON. BUT I'M AFRAID -- THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
AND
MUCH. AND THE STATEMENT YOU MADE ABOUT
RUSH
AND THE STATEMENT YOU MADE ABOUT RUSH LIMBAUGH, YES, I RESPECT
RUSH
RUSH LIMBAUGH, YES, I RESPECT RUSH LIMBAUGH, EVEN THOUGH HIS
VIEWS
RUSH LIMBAUGH, EVEN THOUGH HIS VIEWS AND MINE ARE PARTICULARLY
DIFFERENT,
VIEWS AND MINE ARE PARTICULARLY DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE
IRAQ
DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY WITH THE IRAQ WAR.
BUT
IRAQ WAR. BUT I RESPECT HIM AS AN
INDEPENDENT
BUT I RESPECT HIM AS AN INDEPENDENT WAR.
AND
INDEPENDENT WAR. AND I THINK THE DEFAMATION OF
RUSH
AND I THINK THE DEFAMATION OF RUSH LIMBAUGH AND LIBERALS AND
THE
RUSH LIMBAUGH AND LIBERALS AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS ATRORKS.
THIS
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS ATRORKS. THIS IS THE MAN WHO CREATED AN
ENTIRE
THIS IS THE MAN WHO CREATED AN ENTIRE PROGRAM OUT OF NOTHING.
HE
ENTIRE PROGRAM OUT OF NOTHING. HE IS A PERSON THAT CAME FROM
THE
HE IS A PERSON THAT CAME FROM THE MIDWEST WHO HAD HIS OWN
INDEPENDENT
THE MIDWEST WHO HAD HIS OWN INDEPENDENT MIND, THIS VERY
ACTIVE
INDEPENDENT MIND, THIS VERY ACTIVE IMAGINATION OF HIS,
MANAGED
ACTIVE IMAGINATION OF HIS, MANAGED TO CREATE AN EMPIRE FOR
HIMSELF.
AND
HIMSELF. AND HE, TOO, HE IS NO STOOGE FOR
ANY
AND HE, TOO, HE IS NO STOOGE FOR ANY GROUP.
HE
ANY GROUP. HE IS AN INDEPENDENT MAN.
YES,
HE IS AN INDEPENDENT MAN. YES, NOW HE'S RELAXING A LITTLE
MORE,
YES, NOW HE'S RELAXING A LITTLE MORE, JOINING GOLF CLUBS.
THAT
MORE, JOINING GOLF CLUBS. THAT IS GOOD.
MORE
THAT IS GOOD. MORE POWER TO HIM.
HE
MORE POWER TO HIM. HE DESERVES TO REST MORE.
BUT
HE DESERVES TO REST MORE. BUT I HAVE GOTTEN SO MUCH
PLEASURE
BUT I HAVE GOTTEN SO MUCH PLEASURE -- I'VE GOTTEN MORE
INTELLECTUAL
PLEASURE -- I'VE GOTTEN MORE INTELLECTUAL STIMULATION FROM
LISTENING
INTELLECTUAL STIMULATION FROM LISTENING TO RUSH LIMBAUGH WHEN
I'M
LISTENING TO RUSH LIMBAUGH WHEN I'M DRIVING MY CAR THAN ALL
THOSE
I'M DRIVING MY CAR THAN ALL THOSE THEESHRISTS AND ACT DEEM.
>>
THOSE THEESHRISTS AND ACT DEEM. >> "ARION," ANOTHER PLACE PEOPLE
CAN
>> "ARION," ANOTHER PLACE PEOPLE CAN READ YOU.
>>
CAN READ YOU. >> A RECENT ESSAY CALLED
"AMERICAN
>> A RECENT ESSAY CALLED "AMERICAN VISION IN THE 1960'S"
A
"AMERICAN VISION IN THE 1960'S" A COVER STORY OF THE WINTER
ISSUE
A COVER STORY OF THE WINTER ISSUE OF AT ARION."
>>
ISSUE OF AT ARION." >> I MISPRONOUNCED IT.
>>
>> I MISPRONOUNCED IT. >> IT IS A CLASSIC JOURNAL --
JOURNAL
>> IT IS A CLASSIC JOURNAL -- JOURNAL OF CLASSICS OF
HUMANITIES
JOURNAL OF CLASSICS OF HUMANITIES AT THE BOSTON OF
HUMANITIES.
AND
HUMANITIES. AND IN THIS ESSAY, I SPEAK ABOUT
THE
AND IN THIS ESSAY, I SPEAK ABOUT THE HOPE THAT THE WEB WILL BE
AVAILABLE
THE HOPE THAT THE WEB WILL BE AVAILABLE TO THE VIEWER SO THEY
CAN
AVAILABLE TO THE VIEWER SO THEY CAN READ THIS VERY, VERY LONG
ARTICLE.
IT
ARTICLE. IT IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE 19 90'S
FROM
IT IS AN OVERVIEW OF THE 19 90'S FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF
RELIGION.
I
RELIGION. I FEEL THIS IS ONE ASPECT OF THE
1960'S
I FEEL THIS IS ONE ASPECT OF THE 1960'S IS TOO MUCH NEGLECTED.
CONSERVATIVES
1960'S IS TOO MUCH NEGLECTED. CONSERVATIVES ATTACK THE 60'S
WITH
CONSERVATIVES ATTACK THE 60'S WITH EVERY KIND OF A SPIRIT AND
THEY'RE
WITH EVERY KIND OF A SPIRIT AND THEY'RE MISSING THE IMPULSE THAT
I
THEY'RE MISSING THE IMPULSE THAT I THINK MOTIVATED SO MANY PEOPLE
THAT
I THINK MOTIVATED SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I REMEMBER FROM THAT ERA.
BUT
THAT I REMEMBER FROM THAT ERA. BUT THERE'S BEEN A MUDDLE.
THE
BUT THERE'S BEEN A MUDDLE. THE NEW-AGE MOVEMENT IS THE
RESULT.
IT'S
RESULT. IT'S A TERRIBLE MUDDLE.
NEW-AGE
IT'S A TERRIBLE MUDDLE. NEW-AGE MOVEMENT HAS TRIED TO
REVISE
NEW-AGE MOVEMENT HAS TRIED TO REVISE CHRISTIANITY BY REMOVING
THE
REVISE CHRISTIANITY BY REMOVING THE JUDGMENTALISM AND ANTI-SEX
ASPECTS
THE JUDGMENTALISM AND ANTI-SEX ASPECTS OF IT.
I
ASPECTS OF IT. I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOST.
I
I THINK PEOPLE ARE LOST. I THINK OUR WESTERN CULTURE IS
NOT
I THINK OUR WESTERN CULTURE IS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.
IT
NOT IN GREAT SHAPE. IT IS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.
MANY
IT IS NOT IN GREAT SHAPE. MANY OF THE WORST THINGS SAID
ABOUT
MANY OF THE WORST THINGS SAID ABOUT IT BY ISLAMIC
FUNDAMENTALISTS
ABOUT IT BY ISLAMIC FUNDAMENTALISTS ARE, IN FACT,
TRUE.
PEOPLE
TRUE. PEOPLE ARE QUESTING, QUESTING
FOR
PEOPLE ARE QUESTING, QUESTING FOR THEIR SEXUAL IDENTITY,
QUESTING
FOR THEIR SEXUAL IDENTITY, QUESTING FOR PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIPS
QUESTING FOR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS IN PERHAPS WAYS
THAT
RELATIONSHIPS IN PERHAPS WAYS THAT NONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS
CAN
THAT NONE OF THOSE TWO THINGS CAN SUSTAIN.
I
CAN SUSTAIN. I MEAN, WE NEED TO RETURN TO THE
GREAT
I MEAN, WE NEED TO RETURN TO THE GREAT FUNDAMENTALS, YOU KNOW, TO
THE
GREAT FUNDAMENTALS, YOU KNOW, TO THE STUDY OF NATURE, THE STUDY
OF
THE STUDY OF NATURE, THE STUDY OF GREAT BOOKS.
I
OF GREAT BOOKS. I MEAN THE STUDY OF RELIGION.
I
I MEAN THE STUDY OF RELIGION. I FEEL THAT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T
BELIEVE
I FEEL THAT EVEN THOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD, I BELIEVE IN
NATURE.
I
NATURE. I FEEL THAT THE WORLD RELIGIONS
ARE
I FEEL THAT THE WORLD RELIGIONS ARE GREAT COMPLEX SYMBOL SYSTEMS
FAR
ARE GREAT COMPLEX SYMBOL SYSTEMS FAR MORE INTERESTING AND
ILLUMINATING,
FAR MORE INTERESTING AND ILLUMINATING, SUSTAINING THAN
ANYTHING
ILLUMINATING, SUSTAINING THAN ANYTHING PRODUCED BY EUROPEAN
POST-STRUCTURALISM
ANYTHING PRODUCED BY EUROPEAN POST-STRUCTURALISM OR
POST-MODERNISM.
WHENEVER
POST-MODERNISM. WHENEVER I TALK ABOUT RELIGION
TO
WHENEVER I TALK ABOUT RELIGION TO STUDENTS, NO MATTER WHAT
BACKGROUND
TO STUDENTS, NO MATTER WHAT BACKGROUND THEY COME FROM,
THEY'RE
BACKGROUND THEY COME FROM, THEY'RE CRAVING, THEY'RE
THIRSTY.
THE
THIRSTY. THE KIDS TODAY ARE THIRSTY.
THEY'RE
THE KIDS TODAY ARE THIRSTY. THEY'RE WANDERING THIS UTTERLY
BENIGN
THEY'RE WANDERING THIS UTTERLY BENIGN MEDIA ENVIRONMENT WITH
THIS
BENIGN MEDIA ENVIRONMENT WITH THIS TRASHY SHOWS.
WE'RE
THIS TRASHY SHOWS. WE'RE NOT IN THE PERIOD OF GREAT
HOLLYWOOD
WE'RE NOT IN THE PERIOD OF GREAT HOLLYWOOD ANYMORE, THERE HASN'T
BEEN
HOLLYWOOD ANYMORE, THERE HASN'T BEEN A MAJOR STAR PERFORMANCE
SINCE
BEEN A MAJOR STAR PERFORMANCE SINCE SHARON STONE "BASIC
INSTINCT"
SINCE SHARON STONE "BASIC INSTINCT" 1992, SO WE'RE
WANDERING
INSTINCT" 1992, SO WE'RE WANDERING THIS DESERT WASTE LAND
OF
WANDERING THIS DESERT WASTE LAND OF MEDIA.
AND
OF MEDIA. AND WE LOOK LIKE -- I MEAN, WE
LOOK
AND WE LOOK LIKE -- I MEAN, WE LOOK LIKE HEE DONISTIC,
MATERIALISTIC,
LOOK LIKE HEE DONISTIC, MATERIALISTIC, EMPTY-HEADED,
IMPERIALISTS
MATERIALISTIC, EMPTY-HEADED, IMPERIALISTS TO PEOPLE ABROAD.
I
IMPERIALISTS TO PEOPLE ABROAD. I CAN UNDERSTAND THE
ANTI-AMERICANISM
I CAN UNDERSTAND THE ANTI-AMERICANISM THAT'S
HAPPENING.
WE
HAPPENING. WE HAVE TO PULL OURSELVES OUT OF
THIS.
>>
THIS. >> YOU CAN SEE THAT WEBSITE ON
THE
>> YOU CAN SEE THAT WEBSITE ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW THAT
CAMILLE
THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW THAT CAMILLE PAG LEAH WAS TALKING
ABOUT
CAMILLE PAG LEAH WAS TALKING ABOUT NOW AND YOU CAN GO TO
NEXT CALL, SAN DIEGO. CALLER: YES.
I
CALLER: YES. I HATE TO BURST THE LOVE FEST
AND
I HATE TO BURST THE LOVE FEST AND WHILE I RESPECT YOU THE MOST
RATIONALE
AND WHILE I RESPECT YOU THE MOST RATIONALE OF SORT OF
CONSERVATIVE
RATIONALE OF SORT OF CONSERVATIVE POINT OF VIEWS I'VE
HEARD
CONSERVATIVE POINT OF VIEWS I'VE HEARD ON C-SPAN, IT IS JUST
FILLED
HEARD ON C-SPAN, IT IS JUST FILLED WITH SO MANY FALSEHOODS.
THIS
FILLED WITH SO MANY FALSEHOODS. THIS IS YOUR INTERPRETATION.
I'M
THIS IS YOUR INTERPRETATION. I'M AN AND THROW POE LOGICAL
ARCHAEOLOGISTS.
SO,
ARCHAEOLOGISTS. SO, OF COURSE I LEARNED HISTORY.
I
SO, OF COURSE I LEARNED HISTORY. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALK
ABOUT
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALK ABOUT AT UNIVERSITIES.
THAT'S
ABOUT AT UNIVERSITIES. THAT'S ALL WE LEARN AT
HISTORIES.
I
HISTORIES. I TEACH FUNDAMENTALS AND BASIC
WRITING
I TEACH FUNDAMENTALS AND BASIC WRITING AND WHAT I HAVE ARE A
BUNCH
WRITING AND WHAT I HAVE ARE A BUNCH OF CONSERVATIVE KIDS.
YOU'RE
BUNCH OF CONSERVATIVE KIDS. YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY DON'T KNOW
HISTORY,
YOU'RE RIGHT, THEY DON'T KNOW HISTORY, BUT THEY HAVE SOME
LONGING
HISTORY, BUT THEY HAVE SOME LONGING FOR A TRADITIONAL PAST
THAT
LONGING FOR A TRADITIONAL PAST THAT THE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN
PARENTS
THAT THE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN PARENTS HAVE TAUGHT THEM THAT
NEVER
PARENTS HAVE TAUGHT THEM THAT NEVER EXISTED.
FIRST
NEVER EXISTED. FIRST OF ALL, BACK TO YOUR
GENDER
FIRST OF ALL, BACK TO YOUR GENDER ROLES.
I'M
GENDER ROLES. I'M GLAD YOUR ANCESTOR WERE GOOD
WITH
I'M GLAD YOUR ANCESTOR WERE GOOD WITH THEIR HANDS.
WHAT
WITH THEIR HANDS. WHAT DOES THAT SAY?
THAT'S
WHAT DOES THAT SAY? THAT'S ABSURD.
SECOND
THAT'S ABSURD. SECOND OF ALL, AS AN
ANTHROPOLOGIST,
SECOND OF ALL, AS AN ANTHROPOLOGIST, IF YOU LOOK
AROUND
ANTHROPOLOGIST, IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE WORLD, GENDER ROLES
ARE
AROUND THE WORLD, GENDER ROLES ARE SPECIFIC AND YOU SHOULD KNOW
THIS
ARE SPECIFIC AND YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS AS A HISTORIAN, THAT OUR
GENDER
THIS AS A HISTORIAN, THAT OUR GENDER ROLES ARE SPECIFIC TO A
POST-INDUSTRIAL
GENDER ROLES ARE SPECIFIC TO A POST-INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
AMERICA.
THEY
AMERICA. THEY ARE NOT SHARED.
IF
THEY ARE NOT SHARED. IF YOU GO PHILIPPINES, THE WOMEN
ARE
IF YOU GO PHILIPPINES, THE WOMEN ARE USING BOWS AND ARROWS.
QU
ARE USING BOWS AND ARROWS. QU GO TO AFRICA, THEY'RE THE
TOUGHEST-MINDED
QU GO TO AFRICA, THEY'RE THE TOUGHEST-MINDED WOMEN YOU'LL
EVER
TOUGHEST-MINDED WOMEN YOU'LL EVER SEE.
OUR
EVER SEE. OUR GENDER ROLES ARE SPECIFIC TO
OUR
OUR GENDER ROLES ARE SPECIFIC TO OUR TIME AND OUR PLACE.
THIS
OUR TIME AND OUR PLACE. THIS RIDICULOUS THING ABOUT
GENDER
THIS RIDICULOUS THING ABOUT GENDER ROLES, WOMEN ARE -- IT IS
SO
GENDER ROLES, WOMEN ARE -- IT IS SO HISTORICALLY AND CULTURALLY
BOUND
SO HISTORICALLY AND CULTURALLY BOUND AND AMERICANS, PART OF WHY
PEOPLE
BOUND AND AMERICANS, PART OF WHY PEOPLE HATE US, IS WE THINK OUR
WAY
PEOPLE HATE US, IS WE THINK OUR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY BECAUSE WE
DON'T
WAY IS THE ONLY WAY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE OF
OURSELVES
DON'T HAVE ANY SENSE OF OURSELVES AND THAT IT WAS
DIFFERENT.
AND
DIFFERENT. AND BEFORE THE INDUSTRIAL
REVOLUTION,
AND BEFORE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, GENDER ROLES WERE
DIFFERENT.
>>
DIFFERENT. >> MM-HMM.
>>
>> MM-HMM. >> AND IT'S TOTALLY CHANGED OVER
TIME.
THE
TIME. THE OTHER THING IS THIS IDEA OF
PROGRESS.
THERE
PROGRESS. THERE IS NO SUCH THING.
THAT
THERE IS NO SUCH THING. THAT IS WHY DARWIN DID NOT
PUBLISH
THAT IS WHY DARWIN DID NOT PUBLISH HIS BOOK.
WHAT
PUBLISH HIS BOOK. WHAT HE WAS AFRAID OF WASN'T
THAT
WHAT HE WAS AFRAID OF WASN'T THAT WE EVOLVED FROM APES, WHAT
HE
THAT WE EVOLVED FROM APES, WHAT HE WAS AFRAID OF IS THE
IMPLICATION
HE WAS AFRAID OF IS THE IMPLICATION IS THERE IS NO SUCH
THING
IMPLICATION IS THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PROGRESS.
THINGS
THING AS PROGRESS. THINGS JUST CHANGED.
THAT'S
THINGS JUST CHANGED. THAT'S WHAT I LEARNED AS AN
ARCHAEOLOGIST.
WHAT
ARCHAEOLOGIST. WHAT IS A CONSTANT IN
ARCHAEOLOGY
WHAT IS A CONSTANT IN ARCHAEOLOGY IS A WAY TO
MANIPULATE
ARCHAEOLOGY IS A WAY TO MANIPULATE ARCHAEOLOGY IN OTHER
WORDS
MANIPULATE ARCHAEOLOGY IN OTHER WORDS TO CONTROL PEOPLE.
WHAT
WORDS TO CONTROL PEOPLE. WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS THIS
IDEA
WHAT I'M WORRIED ABOUT IS THIS IDEA OF FUNDAMENTALS.
WHAT
IDEA OF FUNDAMENTALS. WHAT FUNDAMENTALS?
I
WHAT FUNDAMENTALS? I KEEP HEARING ABOUT TRADITIONAL
VALUES.
IS
VALUES. IS THAT LYNCHING BLACK PEOPLE?
THAT'S
IS THAT LYNCHING BLACK PEOPLE? THAT'S A TRADITIONAL AMERICAN
VALUE.
IS
VALUE. IS THAT WHAT WE WANT.
?
>>
? >> SAN
? >> SAN DIEGO, THANK YOU.
>>
>> SAN DIEGO, THANK YOU. >> I MUST DISAGREE WITH
EVERYTHING
>> I MUST DISAGREE WITH EVERYTHING SHE FUNDAMENTALLY
SAID
EVERYTHING SHE FUNDAMENTALLY SAID UP TO IF LYNCHING PART.
IT'S
SAID UP TO IF LYNCHING PART. IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT I
TALKED
IT'S ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT I TALKED ABOUT THE WAY GENDER
ROLES
TALKED ABOUT THE WAY GENDER ROLES HAVE CHANGED, FROM
RADICALLY
ROLES HAVE CHANGED, FROM RADICALLY THE 1920'S AND 30'S T
KATHARINE
RADICALLY THE 1920'S AND 30'S T KATHARINE HEPBURN AND AMELIA
EARHARDT
KATHARINE HEPBURN AND AMELIA EARHARDT ERA WAS QUITE DIFFERENT
THAN
EARHARDT ERA WAS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN THE SOCIAL ROLE IMPOSED ON
ME,
THAN THE SOCIAL ROLE IMPOSED ON ME, THE GENDER ROLE IN THE
1950'S.
THESE
1950'S. THESE VERY MUCH INFLUX.
NEVERTHELESS,
THESE VERY MUCH INFLUX. NEVERTHELESS, IN MY WORK, I DO
BELIEVE
NEVERTHELESS, IN MY WORK, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOME BASIS
IN
BELIEVE THAT THERE IS SOME BASIS IN BIOLOGY FOR GENDER ROLES AND,
YOU
IN BIOLOGY FOR GENDER ROLES AND, YOU KNOW, MY BOOK "SEXUAL
PERSONA"
YOU KNOW, MY BOOK "SEXUAL PERSONA" BEGINS WITH THE VENUS
OF
PERSONA" BEGINS WITH THE VENUS OF VILLAINDORF, WHICH IS A CULT
OBJECT
OF VILLAINDORF, WHICH IS A CULT OBJECT FOUND IN AN AUSTRIAN SITE
THAT
OBJECT FOUND IN AN AUSTRIAN SITE THAT DATES PERHAPS 25 YEARS B.C.
AND
THAT DATES PERHAPS 25 YEARS B.C. AND I TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS OBESE
OBJECT,
AND I TALK ABOUT WHAT THIS OBESE OBJECT, WHICH IS BLIND, WAS
HARDLY
OBJECT, WHICH IS BLIND, WAS HARDLY SORT OF FLIPPER ARMS AND
NO
HARDLY SORT OF FLIPPER ARMS AND NO FEET, WHAT THAT MEANS ABOUT
THE
NO FEET, WHAT THAT MEANS ABOUT THE IMAGE OF WOMEN,
UNDERSTANDING
THE IMAGE OF WOMEN, UNDERSTANDING OF WOMEN PROJECTED
AT
UNDERSTANDING OF WOMEN PROJECTED AT A TIME OF SURVIVALIST LIFE,
WHERE
AT A TIME OF SURVIVALIST LIFE, WHERE PEOPLE WERE DESPERATE FOR
IN
WHERE PEOPLE WERE DESPERATE FOR IN TIMES OF FAMINE FOR FOOD AND
SO
IN TIMES OF FAMINE FOR FOOD AND SO ON.
AND
SO ON. AND THEN IN "SEXUAL PERSONA," I
GO
AND THEN IN "SEXUAL PERSONA," I GO ON TO THE VISION OF WOMEN
THAT
GO ON TO THE VISION OF WOMEN THAT WAS TRANSFORMED IN EGYPTIAN
ARISTOCRATIC
THAT WAS TRANSFORMED IN EGYPTIAN ARISTOCRATIC SOCIETY.
ALL
ARISTOCRATIC SOCIETY. ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW WE DON'T
HAVE
ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW WE DON'T HAVE THE LARGE BREASTS OF THE
VENUS
HAVE THE LARGE BREASTS OF THE VENUS OF VILLAINDORF AND MILK
SACKS,
VENUS OF VILLAINDORF AND MILK SACKS, BUT THE SMALL, ELEGANT
BREASTS
SACKS, BUT THE SMALL, ELEGANT BREASTS OF THE UPPER-CLASS
WOMEN.
WHAT
WOMEN. WHAT I CALL THE BIRTH OF THE
WESTERN
WHAT I CALL THE BIRTH OF THE WESTERN EYE, WHERE THERE'S A
MIGRATION
WESTERN EYE, WHERE THERE'S A MIGRATION FROM THE EYE AND TO
THIS
MIGRATION FROM THE EYE AND TO THIS PROJECTION THAT -- THAT'S
WHAT
THIS PROJECTION THAT -- THAT'S WHAT WESTERN CULTURE HAS BEEN
BRILLIANT
WHAT WESTERN CULTURE HAS BEEN BRILLIANT AT, THE PROJECTION OF
AMBITION
BRILLIANT AT, THE PROJECTION OF AMBITION AND ILLUSION AND, YES,
THE
AMBITION AND ILLUSION AND, YES, THE DELUSION OF PROGRESS.
WESTERN
THE DELUSION OF PROGRESS. WESTERN CULTURE HAS BEEN DILUTED
WITH
WESTERN CULTURE HAS BEEN DILUTED WITH THE IDEA OF PROGRESS FROM
THE
WITH THE IDEA OF PROGRESS FROM THE START.
HINDUISM
THE START. HINDUISM DOES NOT BELIEVE IN
THAT.
IT
THAT. IT BELIEVES IN THE GREAT WHEEL
OF
IT BELIEVES IN THE GREAT WHEEL OF REINCARNATION, THINGS MOVING.
ACTUALLY,
OF REINCARNATION, THINGS MOVING. ACTUALLY, HARDLY ANYTHING I
AGREE
ACTUALLY, HARDLY ANYTHING I AGREE WITH IN THAT CALLER.
>>
AGREE WITH IN THAT CALLER. >> VIRGINIA.
CALLER:
>> VIRGINIA. CALLER: HI, PROFESSOR PAGLY
YARKS
CALLER: HI, PROFESSOR PAGLY YARKS I'VE ENJOYED HEARING YOUR
IDEAS
YARKS I'VE ENJOYED HEARING YOUR IDEAS FOR MANY YEARS.
I
IDEAS FOR MANY YEARS. I ESPECIALLY ENJOYED BEING ON
C-SPAN,
I ESPECIALLY ENJOYED BEING ON C-SPAN, A SPEECH THAT YOU GAVE
TO
C-SPAN, A SPEECH THAT YOU GAVE TO THE POLITICAL UNION SEVERAL
YEARS
TO THE POLITICAL UNION SEVERAL YEARS AGO WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT
THE
YEARS AGO WHERE YOU TALKED ABOUT THE CHANGES AND NAME OF STORMS
FROM
THE CHANGES AND NAME OF STORMS FROM JUST FEMALE NAMES TO
INCLUDING
FROM JUST FEMALE NAMES TO INCLUDING BOTH MALE AND FEMALE
NAMES.
I
NAMES. I THOUGHT THAT WAS HILARIOUS.
MORE
I THOUGHT THAT WAS HILARIOUS. MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU'VE
IDENTIFIED
MORE IMPORTANTLY, YOU'VE IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS A
LIBERTARIAN,
IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS A LIBERTARIAN, BUT THEN YOU ALSO
HAVE
LIBERTARIAN, BUT THEN YOU ALSO HAVE SAID THAT YOU VOTED FOR THE
CLINTONS
HAVE SAID THAT YOU VOTED FOR THE CLINTONS TWICE AND YOU'VE
IDENTIFIED
CLINTONS TWICE AND YOU'VE IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS A MEMBER
OF
IDENTIFIED YOURSELF AS A MEMBER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
I
OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. I WONDER WITH SO MANY
LIBERTARIANS
I WONDER WITH SO MANY LIBERTARIANS OR PEOPLE THAT
BELIEVE
LIBERTARIANS OR PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE
THEIR
BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN CHOICES UNHINDERED BY
GOVERNMENT,
THEIR OWN CHOICES UNHINDERED BY GOVERNMENT, HOW THOSE PEOPLE
HAVE
GOVERNMENT, HOW THOSE PEOPLE HAVE MAINLY GRAVITATED TOWARDS
THE
HAVE MAINLY GRAVITATED TOWARDS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ALTHOUGH
OBVIOUSLY
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A PLIT WITH
THE
OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A PLIT WITH THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, WHY YOU
IDENTIFY
THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT, WHY YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF YOURSELF WITH
THE
IDENTIFY YOURSELF YOURSELF WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
>>
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT
WONDERFUL
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT WONDERFUL QUESTION BECAUSE I DO
NOT
WONDERFUL QUESTION BECAUSE I DO NOT BELONG TO THE LIBERTARIAN
SOCIETY
NOT BELONG TO THE LIBERTARIAN SOCIETY AND MANY LIBERTARIANS
ARE,
SOCIETY AND MANY LIBERTARIANS ARE, INDEED, RATHER
CONSERVATIVE.
IT'S
CONSERVATIVE. IT'S BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THIS
SHARP
IT'S BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THIS SHARP DEMARCATION OF THE PUBLIC
VERSES
SHARP DEMARCATION OF THE PUBLIC VERSES PRIVATE REALM.
BUT
VERSES PRIVATE REALM. BUT I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD
BE
BUT I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE A SAFETY NET FOR THE POOR AND
THE
BE A SAFETY NET FOR THE POOR AND THE WEAK.
I
THE WEAK. I BELIEVE THERE ARE LEGITIMATE
AREAS
I BELIEVE THERE ARE LEGITIMATE AREAS FOR GOVERNMENT ACTIVITY.
I
AREAS FOR GOVERNMENT ACTIVITY. I THINK THAT IN THE AREA OF
PUBLIC
I THINK THAT IN THE AREA OF PUBLIC CLINICS, OF UPKEEP OF
ROADS
PUBLIC CLINICS, OF UPKEEP OF ROADS AND SO ON, I DO BELIEVE,
THOUGH,
ROADS AND SO ON, I DO BELIEVE, THOUGH, IN THE SHRINKING OF
GOVERNMENT.
I
GOVERNMENT. I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A
SPRAWLING
I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE A SPRAWLING GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY
THAT
SPRAWLING GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRACY THAT SURVIVES ADMINISTRATIONS,
IT
THAT SURVIVES ADMINISTRATIONS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S A
REPUBLICAN
IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER IT'S A REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT IN THE
WHITE
REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT IN THE WHITE HOUSE.
WE
WHITE HOUSE. WE HAVE AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF
LAW,
WE HAVE AN ENDLESS NUMBER OF LAW, LAWS, AND MORE LAWS.
THERE
LAW, LAWS, AND MORE LAWS. THERE HAS TO BE A GOURDS I DON'T
KNOW
THERE HAS TO BE A GOURDS I DON'T KNOW KNOT CUTTING WAY DOWN IN
TERMS
KNOW KNOT CUTTING WAY DOWN IN TERMS OF INTRUSION IN PEOPLE'S
LIVES.
ON
LIVES. ON THE OTHER HAND, I'M WELL
AWARE
ON THE OTHER HAND, I'M WELL AWARE FROM THE INDUSTRIAL
REVOLUTION
AWARE FROM THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION ON OF THE OF THE
TENDENCY
REVOLUTION ON OF THE OF THE TENDENCY OF CAPITALISM, WHICH I
BELIEVE
TENDENCY OF CAPITALISM, WHICH I BELIEVE IN BECAUSE I BELIEVE
THAT
BELIEVE IN BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED THE
MODERN
THAT CAPITALISM HAS PRODUCED THE MODERN INDEPENDENT WOMAN, THE
WOMAN
MODERN INDEPENDENT WOMAN, THE WOMAN WHO IS NO LONGER DEMOCRAT
ON
WOMAN WHO IS NO LONGER DEMOCRAT ON FATHER OR HUSBAND FOR HER
SUSTENANCE.
I
SUSTENANCE. I DO BELIEVE THAT CAPITALISM IS
DARWINIAN
I DO BELIEVE THAT CAPITALISM IS DARWINIAN AND THAT GOVERNMENT
REGULATION,
DARWINIAN AND THAT GOVERNMENT REGULATION, GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT
IS
REGULATION, GOVERNMENT OVERSIGHT IS NECESSARY.
ONE
IS NECESSARY. ONE OF MY FAVORITE POEMS THAT I
WORKED
ONE OF MY FAVORITE POEMS THAT I WORKED SO WELL IN CLASS AND
TALKED
WORKED SO WELL IN CLASS AND TALKED ABOUT IT IN MY BOOK IS
WILLIAM
TALKED ABOUT IT IN MY BOOK IS WILLIAM BLAKE'S "CHIMNEY SWEEP"
POEM
WILLIAM BLAKE'S "CHIMNEY SWEEP" POEM WHERE YOU SEE THE ATROCITY
OF
POEM WHERE YOU SEE THE ATROCITY OF CHILD LABOR AND THE SHORT
LIVES
OF CHILD LABOR AND THE SHORT LIVES OF THESE POOR CHILDREN
THAT
LIVES OF THESE POOR CHILDREN THAT WERE MADE TO GO UP CHIMNEYS
AND
THAT WERE MADE TO GO UP CHIMNEYS AND TO INHALE THAT CARCINOGENIC
DUST
AND TO INHALE THAT CARCINOGENIC DUST AND SO ON.
IT
DUST AND SO ON. IT IS ONLY GOVERNMENT ACTION,
WHICH
IT IS ONLY GOVERNMENT ACTION, WHICH WAS DEBATED FOR DECADES,
INTO
WHICH WAS DEBATED FOR DECADES, INTO WHAT DEGREE DID GOVERNMENT
HAVE
INTO WHAT DEGREE DID GOVERNMENT HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME IN AND
REGULATE
HAVE THE RIGHT TO COME IN AND REGULATE A PRIVATE INDUSTRIAL
WORKPLACE.
THERE
WORKPLACE. THERE WAS A HUGE ARGUMENT THAT
WENT
THERE WAS A HUGE ARGUMENT THAT WENT ON FOR 40, 50 YEARS IN
ENGLAND.
SO,
ENGLAND. SO, I DO FEEL THAT AS -- THAT
THERE'S
SO, I DO FEEL THAT AS -- THAT THERE'S THIS DYNAMIC GOING ON IN
MODERN
THERE'S THIS DYNAMIC GOING ON IN MODERN INDUSTRIAL CULTURE.
AND
MODERN INDUSTRIAL CULTURE. AND THAT IS WE HAVE -- I BELIEVE
UNTIL
AND THAT IS WE HAVE -- I BELIEVE UNTIL ENTREPRENEURSHIP, I
BELIEVE
UNTIL ENTREPRENEURSHIP, I BELIEVE IN THE VITALITY OF
BUSINESS
BELIEVE IN THE VITALITY OF BUSINESS AND SO ON.
WHAT
BUSINESS AND SO ON. WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, WITH
SPRAWLING,
WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, WITH SPRAWLING, YOU KNOW, GLOBAL KIND
OF
SPRAWLING, YOU KNOW, GLOBAL KIND OF CORPORATE ENTITIES AND THE --
YOU
OF CORPORATE ENTITIES AND THE -- YOU KNOW, THE -- THERE'S A KIND
OF
YOU KNOW, THE -- THERE'S A KIND OF -- DEFINITELY A FOSSILIZATION
HAPPENING
OF -- DEFINITELY A FOSSILIZATION HAPPENING IN THE VERY MERRY
CHRISTMAS
HAPPENING IN THE VERY MERRY CHRISTMAS NASME WAS INVENTED IN
THE
CHRISTMAS NASME WAS INVENTED IN THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION IN
ENGLAND
THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION IN ENGLAND THAT HAS PRODUCED SO
MUCHWELL
ENGLAND THAT HAS PRODUCED SO MUCHWELL AND HAS PRODUCED OUR
HIGH
MUCHWELL AND HAS PRODUCED OUR HIGH STANDARDS OF LIVING.
AGAIN,
HIGH STANDARDS OF LIVING. AGAIN, THERE IS A ROLE FOR
GOVERNMENT,
AGAIN, THERE IS A ROLE FOR GOVERNMENT, A GREAT ROLE FOR
GOVERNMENT.
BUT
GOVERNMENT. BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIG
GOVERNMENT
BUT I DO NOT BELIEVE IN THE BIG GOVERNMENT SOLUTION OR THE
ENDLESS,
GOVERNMENT SOLUTION OR THE ENDLESS, THE MICRO MANAGING OF
SOCIAL
ENDLESS, THE MICRO MANAGING OF SOCIAL POLICY, OK, BY -- WHICH
IS
SOCIAL POLICY, OK, BY -- WHICH IS ENDORSED BY SO MANY MEMBERS
OF
IS ENDORSED BY SO MANY MEMBERS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
>>
OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. >> OUR E-MAILER WANTS TO KNOW
WHAT
>> OUR E-MAILER WANTS TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK OF WILLIAM F.
BUCK
WHAT YOU THINK OF WILLIAM F. BUCK LITTLE JR.
>>
BUCK LITTLE JR. >> WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY JR.?
WELL,
>> WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY JR.? WELL, I RESPECT HIM AS A GREAT
MIND
WELL, I RESPECT HIM AS A GREAT MIND ORIGINALLY, OK?
BUT
MIND ORIGINALLY, OK? BUT ONCE HE -- ONCE HE -- HE WAS
SUCH
BUT ONCE HE -- ONCE HE -- HE WAS SUCH A CONTROVERSIALIST, HE WAS
SUCH
SUCH A CONTROVERSIALIST, HE WAS SUCH AN OPPOSER TO CURRENT
ORTHODOX
SUCH AN OPPOSER TO CURRENT ORTHODOX SIS BEGINNING IN HIS
COLLEGE
ORTHODOX SIS BEGINNING IN HIS COLLEGE CAREER AT YALE AND SO
ON,
COLLEGE CAREER AT YALE AND SO ON, SO I REALLY RESPECT HIM.
BUT
ON, SO I REALLY RESPECT HIM. BUT I FEEL WHEN THE 19 90'S CAME
AROUND,
BUT I FEEL WHEN THE 19 90'S CAME AROUND, WHEN I CAME ON THE
SCENE,
AROUND, WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE, THAT I WISHED THAT HE HAD
BEEN
SCENE, THAT I WISHED THAT HE HAD BEEN MORE ACTIVE IN THE REFORM
OF
BEEN MORE ACTIVE IN THE REFORM OF CAMPUS POLITICS.
I
OF CAMPUS POLITICS. I FEEL THAT HE WOULD MAKE KIND
OF
I FEEL THAT HE WOULD MAKE KIND OF LORDLY ILLUSIONS TO THE
MATTER
OF LORDLY ILLUSIONS TO THE MATTER AND DISMISSIVE MANNER ON
HIS
MATTER AND DISMISSIVE MANNER ON HIS SHOW.
HE
HIS SHOW. HE MIGHT HAVE VEXED OVER THE
PERIODS.
BUT
PERIODS. BUT SOME FELLLE THAT IF HE WOULD
HAVE
BUT SOME FELLLE THAT IF HE WOULD HAVE USED HIS WEIGHT TO WADE
INTO
HAVE USED HIS WEIGHT TO WADE INTO THE ISSUES, THAT WE
WOULDN'T
INTO THE ISSUES, THAT WE WOULDN'T HAVE THIS KIND OF LOST
GENERATION
WOULDN'T HAVE THIS KIND OF LOST GENERATION THAT WE HAVE TODAY.
THE
GENERATION THAT WE HAVE TODAY. THE INHUMANITIES, THE SITUATION
IS
THE INHUMANITIES, THE SITUATION IS A DISASTER ON COLLEGE
CAMPUSES.
SOME
CAMPUSES. SOME ARE BRILLIANT AND PROMISING
YOUNG
SOME ARE BRILLIANT AND PROMISING YOUNG PEOPLE THAT DID NOT GO
INTO
YOUNG PEOPLE THAT DID NOT GO INTO THE HUMAN NOTICE, WERE
DRIVEN
INTO THE HUMAN NOTICE, WERE DRIVEN OUT OF THE GRADUATE
SCHOOL
DRIVEN OUT OF THE GRADUATE SCHOOL IN THE LAST 15S YEARS.
THERE
SCHOOL IN THE LAST 15S YEARS. THERE IS A PERIODS NOW OF TRYING
TO
THERE IS A PERIODS NOW OF TRYING TO RECUPERATE.
THE
TO RECUPERATE. THE GREATEST ACTIVITY THAT HAS
BEEN
THE GREATEST ACTIVITY THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN REFORM HAS BEEN
DONE
BEEN DONE IN REFORM HAS BEEN DONE BY DAVID HOROWITZ ON HIS
SITE,
DONE BY DAVID HOROWITZ ON HIS SITE, FRONT PAGE MAGAZINE.COM.
HE
SITE, FRONT PAGE MAGAZINE.COM. HE HAS DONE MORE IN THE LAST
THREE
HE HAS DONE MORE IN THE LAST THREE YEARS, OK, TO PROD ALONG
CAMPUS
THREE YEARS, OK, TO PROD ALONG CAMPUS REFORM THAN WILLIAM F.
BUCKLEY
CAMPUS REFORM THAN WILLIAM F. BUCKLEY DID THROUGHOUT THAT
PERIODS
BUCKLEY DID THROUGHOUT THAT PERIODS OF THE 1990'S WHEN HE
SHOULD
PERIODS OF THE 1990'S WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN FULL CULTURE ON
HIM.
CALLER:
HIM. CALLER: HI, DR. PAG LEAH, IT IS
A
CALLER: HI, DR. PAG LEAH, IT IS A THRILL AND AN HONOR TO SPEAK
TO
A THRILL AND AN HONOR TO SPEAK TO YOU.
>>
TO YOU. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: A FEW YEARS BACK DURING
THE
CALLER: A FEW YEARS BACK DURING THE O.J. SIMPSON MURDER TRIAL,
YOU
THE O.J. SIMPSON MURDER TRIAL, YOU HAD MADE A COMMENT ABOUT THE
9-1-1
YOU HAD MADE A COMMENT ABOUT THE 9-1-1 TAPE T RECORDING THAT
NICOLE
9-1-1 TAPE T RECORDING THAT NICOLE SIMPSON HAD MADE AND YOUR
COMMENT,
NICOLE SIMPSON HAD MADE AND YOUR COMMENT, I HOPE YOU REMEMBER,
WAS
COMMENT, I HOPE YOU REMEMBER, WAS THAT WHAT YOU WERE LISTENING
TO
WAS THAT WHAT YOU WERE LISTENING TO AND WHAT YOU WERE HEARING WAS
A
TO AND WHAT YOU WERE HEARING WAS A WOMAN PLAYING A GAME.
THAT'S
A WOMAN PLAYING A GAME. THAT'S HOW YOU TERMED IT.
AND
THAT'S HOW YOU TERMED IT. AND I FOUND THAT SO INTERESTING
BECAUSE
AND I FOUND THAT SO INTERESTING BECAUSE UP UNTIL THAT TIME, I
HADN'T
BECAUSE UP UNTIL THAT TIME, I HADN'T REALLY CONSIDERED HER
ROLE,
HADN'T REALLY CONSIDERED HER ROLE, IF YOU WILL, IN HER OWN
DEMISE
ROLE, IF YOU WILL, IN HER OWN DEMISE HOWEVER MINOR IT MIGHT
BE.
I
BE. I WAS
BE. I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD
EXPAND
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD EXPAND ON THAT SPECIFICALLY OR
MAYBE
EXPAND ON THAT SPECIFICALLY OR MAYBE WOMEN IN ABUSIVE
RELATIONSHIPS
MAYBE WOMEN IN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS IN GENERAL.
>>
RELATIONSHIPS IN GENERAL. >> WELL, YOU DEFINITELY DON'T
WANT
>> WELL, YOU DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO BLAME THE VICTIM IN ANY
SITUATION.
WHEN
SITUATION. WHEN AN ATROCITY IS COMMITTED --
I
WHEN AN ATROCITY IS COMMITTED -- I BELIEVE IN THE DEATH PENALTY,
BY
I BELIEVE IN THE DEATH PENALTY, BY THE WAY, I MIGHT POINT OUT.
ANYONE
BY THE WAY, I MIGHT POINT OUT. ANYONE WHO COMMITS AN ATROCIOUS
MURDER
ANYONE WHO COMMITS AN ATROCIOUS MURDER OR PARTICULARLY TORTURE,
MURDERS
MURDER OR PARTICULARLY TORTURE, MURDERS OF CHILDREN, THESE
PEOPLE
MURDERS OF CHILDREN, THESE PEOPLE SHOULD BE EXECUTED, IN MY
OPINION.
SO,
OPINION. SO, I'M NOT EXCUSING THE
ASSAILANT,
SO, I'M NOT EXCUSING THE ASSAILANT, WHOEVER IT WAS IN
THIS
ASSAILANT, WHOEVER IT WAS IN THIS CASE, ALTHOUGH SOMEBODY
MUST
THIS CASE, ALTHOUGH SOMEBODY MUST HAVE SUSPECTED IT WAS O.J.
HIMSELF.
I
HIMSELF. I HAVE SAID THAT THAT WAS AN
EXAMPLE
I HAVE SAID THAT THAT WAS AN EXAMPLE OF THIS -- WHEN THE
POLICE
EXAMPLE OF THIS -- WHEN THE POLICE ARE TO BE DRAWN IN TO
PRIVATE
POLICE ARE TO BE DRAWN IN TO PRIVATE RELATIONSHIPS, WHETHER
THROUGH
PRIVATE RELATIONSHIPS, WHETHER THROUGH RESTRAINING ORDERS OR
WHATEVER,
THROUGH RESTRAINING ORDERS OR WHATEVER, WHERE YOU'RE MAKING
9-1-1
WHATEVER, WHERE YOU'RE MAKING 9-1-1 CALLS, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A
COMBAT
9-1-1 CALLS, WHAT YOU HAVE IS A COMBAT THAT STARTS A COMPETITION
BETWEEN
COMBAT THAT STARTS A COMPETITION BETWEEN THE MAN AND THE POLICE.
OK?
I
OK? I THINK THAT WOMEN ACTUALLY
ENDANGERING
I THINK THAT WOMEN ACTUALLY ENDANGERING THEMSELVES FURTHER
BY
ENDANGERING THEMSELVES FURTHER BY THIS BECAUSE THEY END UP
GETTING
BY THIS BECAUSE THEY END UP GETTING KILLED SOMETIMES BECAUSE
THE
GETTING KILLED SOMETIMES BECAUSE THE MAN WANTS TO DEFEAT THE
POLICE.
I'LL
POLICE. I'LL SHOW YOU I CAN GET TO HER,
THAT
I'LL SHOW YOU I CAN GET TO HER, THAT KIND OF THING.
SO
THAT KIND OF THING. SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE NEED
MUCH
SO I THINK THAT WHAT WE NEED MUCH MORE OF IS A SENSE OF
SCOFPLG
MUCH MORE OF IS A SENSE OF SCOFPLG ODDLY ENOUGH PSYCHOLOGY,
JUST
SCOFPLG ODDLY ENOUGH PSYCHOLOGY, JUST ABOUT ALL OF OUR TALK SHOWS
ARE
JUST ABOUT ALL OF OUR TALK SHOWS ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT
PERSONAL
ARE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS AND SO
ON,
PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS AND SO ON, REALLY PSYCHOLOGICAL
ANALYSIS
ON, REALLY PSYCHOLOGICAL ANALYSIS SEEMS, TO ME, TO BE
RECEDING
ANALYSIS SEEMS, TO ME, TO BE RECEDING OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS.
WE
RECEDING OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS. WE NEEDS MUCH MORE -- TALKING
ABOUT
WE NEEDS MUCH MORE -- TALKING ABOUT OF RELATIONSHIPS.
WHAT
ABOUT OF RELATIONSHIPS. WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN SEX?
I
WHAT DO PEOPLE LOOK FOR IN SEX? I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF
SYMBOLISM
I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF SYMBOLISM IN SEX.
WHAT
SYMBOLISM IN SEX. WHAT ARE PEOPLE SEEKING FOR?
WHEN
WHAT ARE PEOPLE SEEKING FOR? WHEN YOU HAVE AN UNSTABLE
RELATIONSHIP
WHEN YOU HAVE AN UNSTABLE RELATIONSHIP -- IF A
RELATIONSHIP -- IF A RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN ABUSIVE
AND
RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN ABUSIVE AND IT WAS WITH NICOLE SIMPSON,
OF
AND IT WAS WITH NICOLE SIMPSON, OF COURSE CHEF WAS YOUNG WHEN
THEY
OF COURSE CHEF WAS YOUNG WHEN THEY STARTED GOING TOGETHER, BUT
HIS
THEY STARTED GOING TOGETHER, BUT HIS ABUSIVENESS TO HER, HIS
CONTROLLING
HIS ABUSIVENESS TO HER, HIS CONTROLLING OF HER, HIM PUSHING
HER
CONTROLLING OF HER, HIM PUSHING HER AROUND PHYSICALLY WAS AN
ITEM
HER AROUND PHYSICALLY WAS AN ITEM ALREADY IN THAT
RELATIONSHIP.
MY
RELATIONSHIP. MY ATTITUDE IS, IF SOMEONE DOES
TO
MY ATTITUDE IS, IF SOMEONE DOES TO YOU SOMETHING NOW, IT IS
GOING
TO YOU SOMETHING NOW, IT IS GOING TO CONTINUE.
DON'T
GOING TO CONTINUE. DON'T THINK YOU ARE GOING TO
CURE
DON'T THINK YOU ARE GOING TO CURE THAT.
THERE
CURE THAT. THERE IS A PROCESS OF
PSYCHOLOGICAL
THERE IS A PROCESS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL NEEDS AND CONTROL
IN
PSYCHOLOGICAL NEEDS AND CONTROL IN CERTAIN MEN THAT I HAVE
ANALYZED
IN CERTAIN MEN THAT I HAVE ANALYZED AS HAVING SOMETHING TO
DO
ANALYZED AS HAVING SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE MOTHER COMPLEX.
OK?
SOME
OK? SOME SHADOWY GAME THAT A MAN IS
PLAYING
SOME SHADOWY GAME THAT A MAN IS PLAYING WITH THE POOR WIFE OR
LOVER
PLAYING WITH THE POOR WIFE OR LOVER AS PROXY FOR HIS PROBLEMS
WITH
LOVER AS PROXY FOR HIS PROBLEMS WITH HIS -- A FEELING OF
PROGRAMS
WITH HIS -- A FEELING OF PROGRAMS OVERCONTROLLED OR HIS
IDENTITY
PROGRAMS OVERCONTROLLED OR HIS IDENTITY OBLITERATED BY AN OLDER
GENERATION.
I
GENERATION. I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF THESE
QUESTIONS
I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS IN PSYCHOLOGY
OPERATING.
BUT
OPERATING. BUT HEAVEN FORBID ANYONE SHOULD
MENTION
BUT HEAVEN FORBID ANYONE SHOULD MENTION THERE IS SUCH A FALL ON
THIS
MENTION THERE IS SUCH A FALL ON THIS QUESTION, OK, FOR 20 YEAR,
YOU
THIS QUESTION, OK, FOR 20 YEAR, YOU CANNOT ASK ANY QUESTION, OK,
ABOUT
YOU CANNOT ASK ANY QUESTION, OK, ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL
DEVELOPMENT
ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT OF EITHER GAY OR
HETEROSEXUAL
DEVELOPMENT OF EITHER GAY OR HETEROSEXUAL IDENTITY.
THAT
HETEROSEXUAL IDENTITY. THAT IS OFF THE TABLE RIGHT NOW.
THE
THAT IS OFF THE TABLE RIGHT NOW. THE ONLY PROBLEMS FOR ANYONE ARE
AN
THE ONLY PROBLEMS FOR ANYONE ARE AN OPPRESSIVE PUBLIC SYSTEM THAT
NEEDS
AN OPPRESSIVE PUBLIC SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO BE REVISED.
MANY
NEEDS TO BE REVISED. MANY OF THESE INNER AMBIGUITIES
IN
MANY OF THESE INNER AMBIGUITIES IN PEOPLE, INNER DRIVE, ARE
ILLUMINATED
IN PEOPLE, INNER DRIVE, ARE ILLUMINATED BY ART.
ART
ILLUMINATED BY ART. ART IS THE BEST WAY TO ACTUALLY
DISCOVER
ART IS THE BEST WAY TO ACTUALLY DISCOVER WHO YOU ARE IN MY VIEW,
OK?
IT
OK? IT IS
OK? IT IS NOT THROUGH PASSING MORE
REGULATION,
IT IS NOT THROUGH PASSING MORE REGULATION, HAVING THE POLICE
COME
REGULATION, HAVING THE POLICE COME IN AND CREATE ORDERS IN A
RELATIONSHIP
COME IN AND CREATE ORDERS IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT IS UNSTABLE.
>>
RELATIONSHIP THAT IS UNSTABLE. >> MESA, ARIZONA.
CALLER:
>> MESA, ARIZONA. CALLER: YES, MY QUESTION IS
ABOUT
CALLER: YES, MY QUESTION IS ABOUT GUN RIGHTS.
I
ABOUT GUN RIGHTS. I LOVE WHAT MS. PAG LEAH WROTE
ABOUT
I LOVE WHAT MS. PAG LEAH WROTE ABOUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THAT
THE
ABOUT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO THAT THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS A
PROTECTION
THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS A PROTECTION AGAINST THE TYRANNY
OF
PROTECTION AGAINST THE TYRANNY OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE
GOVERNMENTS
OF GOVERNMENT BECAUSE GOVERNMENTS ALWAYS TEND TO
EXPLOIT
GOVERNMENTS ALWAYS TEND TO EXPLOIT AND ABUSE PEOPLE AND THE
ONLY
EXPLOIT AND ABUSE PEOPLE AND THE ONLY THING THAT IS PROTECTING US
IS
ONLY THING THAT IS PROTECTING US IS THE PROTECTION OF INDIVIDUAL
GUN
IS THE PROTECTION OF INDIVIDUAL GUN RIGHTS AND I HAVE A SECOND
QUESTION
GUN RIGHTS AND I HAVE A SECOND QUESTION AS WELL.
AND
QUESTION AS WELL. AND I FORMULATED FOR THIS AS I
WAS
AND I FORMULATED FOR THIS AS I WAS LISTENING, WAITING ON LINE,
AND
WAS LISTENING, WAITING ON LINE, AND YOU SAID SINCE SHARON STONE
THERE'S
AND YOU SAID SINCE SHARON STONE THERE'S BEEN NO REAL BREAK OUT
STAR.
MAY
STAR. MAY I SUGGEST THAT IN THE RECENT
MOVIE
MAY I SUGGEST THAT IN THE RECENT MOVIE "SWIMMING POOL," SHE IS
SOMEONE
MOVIE "SWIMMING POOL," SHE IS SOMEONE TO TAKE A LOOK AT.
I
SOMEONE TO TAKE A LOOK AT. I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD A
CHANCE
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO SEE THAT MOVIE.
>>
CHANCE TO SEE THAT MOVIE. >> SHE IS FRENCH, OF COURSE.
ACTUALLY
>> SHE IS FRENCH, OF COURSE. ACTUALLY NONAMERICAN.
BUT
ACTUALLY NONAMERICAN. BUT SHOWS THAT EUROPEAN CULTURE
IS
BUT SHOWS THAT EUROPEAN CULTURE IS REVITALIZING ITSELF.
YES.
I
YES. I DON'T OWN GUNS I'M NOT
INTERESTED
I DON'T OWN GUNS I'M NOT INTERESTED IN GUNS.
BUT
INTERESTED IN GUNS. BUT MY UNCLE'S OWN GUNS.
THEY
BUT MY UNCLE'S OWN GUNS. THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE GUN,
NO
THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO HAVE GUN, NO MATTER HOW LIBERALS WANT TO
DICE
NO MATTER HOW LIBERALS WANT TO DICE AND SLICE IT, I BELIEVE
THAT
DICE AND SLICE IT, I BELIEVE THAT IT IS VERY CLEARLY STATED
IN
THAT IT IS VERY CLEARLY STATED IN OUR BILL OF RIGHTS THAT THERE
IS
IN OUR BILL OF RIGHTS THAT THERE IS A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.
THAT
IS A RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN, OF COURSE,
THAT
THAT DOES NOT MEAN, OF COURSE, THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE HAVING
ASSAULT
THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE HAVING ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HAVING STOCK
PILES
ASSAULT WEAPONS AND HAVING STOCK PILES OF WEAPONS IN AN URBAN
ENVIRONMENT.
I'M
ENVIRONMENT. I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW TO
APPROACH
I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW TO APPROACH THIS, EXCEPT TO
RESTABILIZE
APPROACH THIS, EXCEPT TO RESTABILIZE THE SOCIAL STRUCTURE
OF
RESTABILIZE THE SOCIAL STRUCTURE OF THE INNER CITIES.
I
OF THE INNER CITIES. I THINK WE CAN'T BE INTRUDESING
INTO
I THINK WE CAN'T BE INTRUDESING INTO THE RIGHTS OF LAW-ABIDING
GUN
INTO THE RIGHTS OF LAW-ABIDING GUN OWNERS OUTSIDE THE URBAN
CENTERS
GUN OWNERS OUTSIDE THE URBAN CENTERS MERELY BECAUSE OF, YOU
KNOW,
CENTERS MERELY BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, PATHOLOGIES THAT HAVE
NOTHING
KNOW, PATHOLOGIES THAT HAVE NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH
GURNINGS
NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH GURNINGS ACTUALLY.
>>
GURNINGS ACTUALLY. >> THERE IS AN E-MAILER HERE WHO
SAYS
>> THERE IS AN E-MAILER HERE WHO SAYS HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT ALL
OF
SAYS HAVE YOU NOTICED THAT ALL OF YOUR CALLERS ARE MALE?
I
OF YOUR CALLERS ARE MALE? I THINK HE IS WRONG.
THERE
I THINK HE IS WRONG. THERE WERE TWO FEMALES SO FAR.
HE
THERE WERE TWO FEMALES SO FAR. HE SAYS HOW MUCH OF YOUR
FOLLOWING
HE SAYS HOW MUCH OF YOUR FOLLOWING -- HOW MUCH OF YOUR
FOLLOWING
FOLLOWING -- HOW MUCH OF YOUR FOLLOWING IS MALE OPPOSED TO
FEMALE?
>>
FEMALE? >> I HAVEN'T NOTICED.
IT'S
>> I HAVEN'T NOTICED. IT'S USUALLY MEN WHO LIKE TO
CALL.
MEN
CALL. MEN LIKE TO CALL.
THEY
MEN LIKE TO CALL. THEY LIKE TO -- I'VE GOTTEN A
LOT
THEY LIKE TO -- I'VE GOTTEN A LOT OF LETTERS OVER THE YEARS
FROM
LOT OF LETTERS OVER THE YEARS FROM WOMEN WHO -- PARTICULARLY
THE
FROM WOMEN WHO -- PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT I JUST MENTIONED
WITH
THE ONES THAT I JUST MENTIONED WITH RESPECT DRIVEN OUT OF
GRADUATE
WITH RESPECT DRIVEN OUT OF GRADUATE SCHOOL AND WANT TO GO
INTO
GRADUATE SCHOOL AND WANT TO GO INTO THE HUMANITIES AND COULD
NOT
INTO THE HUMANITIES AND COULD NOT SWALLOW THE DIET OF FAIRLY
USELESS
NOT SWALLOW THE DIET OF FAIRLY USELESS AND JARGON CHOKED
POST-STRUCTURALISM
USELESS AND JARGON CHOKED POST-STRUCTURALISM THEY WERE
FORCED
POST-STRUCTURALISM THEY WERE FORCED TO STUDY INSTEAD OF REAL
LITERATURE
FORCED TO STUDY INSTEAD OF REAL LITERATURE AND AR.
BUT
LITERATURE AND AR. BUT WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN
1990,
BUT WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN 1990, OK, I WAS SPEAKING FOR
MEN.
IT
MEN. IT HADN'T BEEN DONE.
WARDS
IT HADN'T BEEN DONE. WARDS FARRELL, HIS BOOK "THE
MIST
WARDS FARRELL, HIS BOOK "THE MIST OF THE MALE POIR," WAS
WRITING
MIST OF THE MALE POIR," WAS WRITING ABOUT THESE ISSUES.
BUT
WRITING ABOUT THESE ISSUES. BUT CHRISTINE HOFF SUMMER WAS
IN
BUT CHRISTINE HOFF SUMMER WAS IN THE LATE 180'S, WHEN I WAS
STILL
IN THE LATE 180'S, WHEN I WAS STILL UNPUBLISHED, SHE WAS OUT
THERE
STILL UNPUBLISHED, SHE WAS OUT THERE BOLDLY CHALLENGING
FEMINIST
THERE BOLDLY CHALLENGING FEMINIST RHETORIC IN SO MANY
AREAS.
SHE
AREAS. SHE DESERVES A LOT OF CREDIT FOR
HAVING
SHE DESERVES A LOT OF CREDIT FOR HAVING INITIATE SO MUCH OF THE
REFORM
HAVING INITIATE SO MUCH OF THE REFORM THAT HAS HAPPENED, HAS
HAPPENED
REFORM THAT HAS HAPPENED, HAS HAPPENED I THINK VERY WELL
WITHIN
HAPPENED I THINK VERY WELL WITHIN FEMINISM.
BUT
WITHIN FEMINISM. BUT NO ONE SAID A GOOD WORD AT
ALL
BUT NO ONE SAID A GOOD WORD AT ALL ABOUT MEN.
THAT'S
ALL ABOUT MEN. THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
THE
THAT'S RIDICULOUS. THE POINT I WAS ALWAYS MAKING IS
THE
THE POINT I WAS ALWAYS MAKING IS THE WORLD TA WE WOMEN ENJOY NOW,
THAT
THE WORLD TA WE WOMEN ENJOY NOW, THAT ALLOWS US TO BE FREE AND
INDEPENDENT
THAT ALLOWS US TO BE FREE AND INDEPENDENT CAREERS WAS CREATED
BY
INDEPENDENT CAREERS WAS CREATED BY MEN.
IT
BY MEN. IT IS THIS HUGE AND VISIBLE
STRUCTURE.
MANY
STRUCTURE. MANY OF THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS
PROFESSIONALS
MANY OF THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS PROFESSIONALS DON'T EVEN NOTICE
THE
PROFESSIONALS DON'T EVEN NOTICE THE KIND OF PHYSICAL LABOR THAT
GOES
THE KIND OF PHYSICAL LABOR THAT GOES INTO THE PRODUCTION OF
THEIR
GOES INTO THE PRODUCTION OF THEIR SPACE.
OK?
PEOPLE
OK? PEOPLE WHO ARE LAYING THE ROOF,
YOU
PEOPLE WHO ARE LAYING THE ROOF, YOU KNOW, TAR, DOING ALL THE
DIRTY
YOU KNOW, TAR, DOING ALL THE DIRTY WORK, THE PLUMBERS AND THE
PEOPLE
DIRTY WORK, THE PLUMBERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE
CONSTRUCTION
PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE CONSTRUCTION OF, YOU KNOW, OF
OUR
CONSTRUCTION OF, YOU KNOW, OF OUR PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENTS.
THEY'RE
OUR PHYSICAL ENVIRONMENTS. THEY'RE COMING OUT OF AN
IMMIGRANT
THEY'RE COMING OUT OF AN IMMIGRANT FAMILY THAT WAS
ORIGINALLY
IMMIGRANT FAMILY THAT WAS ORIGINALLY WORKING CLASS, MY
FAMILY
ORIGINALLY WORKING CLASS, MY FAMILY CAME TO WORK IN THE SHOE
FACTORIES
FAMILY CAME TO WORK IN THE SHOE FACTORIES IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.
I
FACTORIES IN UPSTATE NEW YORK. I TEND TO HAVE A MORE POSITIVE
VIEW
I TEND TO HAVE A MORE POSITIVE VIEW OF INDUSTRY, OK, AND ALSO
--
VIEW OF INDUSTRY, OK, AND ALSO -- THIS ACTUALLY ADDRESSING
SOMETHING
-- THIS ACTUALLY ADDRESSING SOMETHING FROM A PRIOR CALLER --
I
SOMETHING FROM A PRIOR CALLER -- I HAVE A VIEW OF ENLIGHTENED
CAPITALISM,
I HAVE A VIEW OF ENLIGHTENED CAPITALISM, TOO, BECAUSE THE
JOHNSON
CAPITALISM, TOO, BECAUSE THE JOHNSON FAMILY, WHO WERE THE
OWNERS
JOHNSON FAMILY, WHO WERE THE OWNERS OF THE SHOE FACTORY,
BELIEVED
OWNERS OF THE SHOE FACTORY, BELIEVED IN TAKING CARE OF THE
WORKERS.
THERE
WORKERS. THERE WAS FREE MEDICAL CARE,
HELP
THERE WAS FREE MEDICAL CARE, HELP WITH HOUSING AND THERE WAS
FREIGHT
HELP WITH HOUSING AND THERE WAS FREIGHT CARS FULL OF CITRUS
FRUIT
FREIGHT CARS FULL OF CITRUS FRUIT SENT UP FROM THEIR FLORIDA
ABODE
FRUIT SENT UP FROM THEIR FLORIDA ABODE EVERY WINTER AND SO ON.
I
ABODE EVERY WINTER AND SO ON. I THOUGHT THERE IS A KIND OF
CARING,
I THOUGHT THERE IS A KIND OF CARING, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP
THAT
CARING, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP THAT THE JOHNSON FAMILY HAD WITH
THEIR
THAT THE JOHNSON FAMILY HAD WITH THEIR IMMIGRANT, YOU KNOW,
ITALIAN-SPEAKING
THEIR IMMIGRANT, YOU KNOW, ITALIAN-SPEAKING FOR THE MOST
PART,
ITALIAN-SPEAKING FOR THE MOST PART, WORKERS.
I
PART, WORKERS. I THOUGHT IT WAS A KIND OF MODEL
OF
I THOUGHT IT WAS A KIND OF MODEL OF WHAT AN ENLIGHTENED
BUSINESSMAN
OF WHAT AN ENLIGHTENED BUSINESSMAN SHOULD BE BEHAVING
LIKE,
BUSINESSMAN SHOULD BE BEHAVING LIKE, I THINK.
>>
LIKE, I THINK. >> OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA.
CALLER:
>> OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA. CALLER: NICE TO SEE YOU HERE ON
A
CALLER: NICE TO SEE YOU HERE ON A SUNDAY MORNING, CAMILLE.
WHEN
A SUNDAY MORNING, CAMILLE. WHEN I FIRST HEARD YOU AND
STARTED
WHEN I FIRST HEARD YOU AND STARTED READING YOUR BOOKS,
STIRRED
STARTED READING YOUR BOOKS, STIRRED MY BLOOD.
THE
STIRRED MY BLOOD. THE BLOOD FLOWING BETWEEN MY
EARS
THE BLOOD FLOWING BETWEEN MY EARS HERE.
>>
EARS HERE. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: BOY IN AMERICA AND BEING
A
CALLER: BOY IN AMERICA AND BEING A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER, I'VE
LEARNED
A NATIVE ENGLISH SPEAKER, I'VE LEARNED TO APPRECIATE ITALIAN
THROUGH
LEARNED TO APPRECIATE ITALIAN THROUGH MUSIC STUDY AND FILM AND
I'VE
THROUGH MUSIC STUDY AND FILM AND I'VE WONDERED IF YOU'VE HAD
OCCASION
I'VE WONDERED IF YOU'VE HAD OCCASION TO READ IT IN YOUR
RESEARCH
OCCASION TO READ IT IN YOUR RESEARCH OR CASUALLY AND HAVE
YOUR
RESEARCH OR CASUALLY AND HAVE YOUR WORKS BEEN TRANSLATE SBOODS
ITALIAN
YOUR WORKS BEEN TRANSLATE SBOODS ITALIAN AND DO YOU HAVE ANY
FAVORITE
ITALIAN AND DO YOU HAVE ANY FAVORITE AYETAL YN MOVIES?
>>
FAVORITE AYETAL YN MOVIES? >> SO MANY QUESTIONS THERE.
FAVORITE
>> SO MANY QUESTIONS THERE. FAVORITE ITALIAN MOVIES, I DON'T
KNOW
FAVORITE ITALIAN MOVIES, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT CURRENT ONES, BUT MY
FAVORITE
KNOW ABOUT CURRENT ONES, BUT MY FAVORITE ONES ARE "8
YOU KNOW, "MONICA VITI," MOVIES LIKE THE GREAT CLASSICS OF ART
FILMS.
BUT
FILMS. BUT YES, MY WORKS HAVE BEEN
TRANSLAYED
BUT YES, MY WORKS HAVE BEEN TRANSLAYED INTO ITALIAN.
I'M
TRANSLAYED INTO ITALIAN. I'M TREATED WELL.
I'M
I'M TREATED WELL. I'M A KIND OF I GUESS ICON IN
CERTAIN
I'M A KIND OF I GUESS ICON IN CERTAIN AREAS.
I'VE
CERTAIN AREAS. I'VE WRITTEN QUITE A BIT FOR A
MAGAZINE
I'VE WRITTEN QUITE A BIT FOR A MAGAZINE OVER THERE.
WHEN
MAGAZINE OVER THERE. WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE, IT WAS
AT
WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE, IT WAS AT THE SAME TIME ASTHMA DONNA
WAS
AT THE SAME TIME ASTHMA DONNA WAS BECOMING A WORLD PHENOMENON
AND
WAS BECOMING A WORLD PHENOMENON AND WE WERE OFTEN LINKED
TOGETHER
AND WE WERE OFTEN LINKED TOGETHER BECAUSE I WAS AN
EXPLAINER,
TOGETHER BECAUSE I WAS AN EXPLAINER, EXMY KAY TO OF
MADONNA.
HER
MADONNA. HER BACKGROUND IS VERY SIMILAR
TO
HER BACKGROUND IS VERY SIMILAR TO MINE.
I
TO MINE. I CERTAINLY LOVE ITALIAN IN
TERMS
I CERTAINLY LOVE ITALIAN IN TERMS OF OPERA.
PUCCINI
TERMS OF OPERA. PUCCINI IS A HUGE INFLUENCE ON
ME.
I
ME. I WAS
ME. I WAS LISTENING TO HIS OPERAS
THROUGHOUT
I WAS LISTENING TO HIS OPERAS THROUGHOUT THE READING OF MY
EMILY
THROUGHOUT THE READING OF MY EMILY DICKINSON CHAPTER IN IS
THE
EMILY DICKINSON CHAPTER IN IS THE QUECKSIAL PERSONA."
I
THE QUECKSIAL PERSONA." I LISTENED TO DIFFERENT MUSIC
FOR
I LISTENED TO DIFFERENT MUSIC FOR DIFFERENT CHAPTERS.
I'M
FOR DIFFERENT CHAPTERS. I'M VERY INFLUENCED BY MUSIC.
MY
I'M VERY INFLUENCED BY MUSIC. MY TWO SIDES OF THE FAMILIES
SPOKE
MY TWO SIDES OF THE FAMILIES SPOKE DIFFERENT DIALECTS IN MY
CHILDHOOD.
MY
CHILDHOOD. MY MOTOR'S FAMILY COMES FROM A
SMALL
MY MOTOR'S FAMILY COMES FROM A SMALL TOWN CALLED CHICANO ABOUT
20
SMALL TOWN CALLED CHICANO ABOUT 20 MILES NORTH OF LATACASINO.
AND
20 MILES NORTH OF LATACASINO. AND IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
THAN
AND IT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE NAPALITAN DIE HE CAN
SPOKEN
THAN THE NAPALITAN DIE HE CAN SPOKEN BY MY FATHER'S MOM,
GRANDMOTHER,
SPOKEN BY MY FATHER'S MOM, GRANDMOTHER, AND SO IN MY
CHILDHOOD,
GRANDMOTHER, AND SO IN MY CHILDHOOD, A LOT OF BODY
LANGUAGE
CHILDHOOD, A LOT OF BODY LANGUAGE IN CHILDHOOD.
THAT'S
LANGUAGE IN CHILDHOOD. THAT'S ONE REASON I HAVE SUCH AN
INSTINCTIVE
THAT'S ONE REASON I HAVE SUCH AN INSTINCTIVE UNDERSTANDING OF
DANCERS
INSTINCTIVE UNDERSTANDING OF DANCERS AND SUCH A RAPPORT WITH
DANCERS
DANCERS AND SUCH A RAPPORT WITH DANCERS AND DANCE SCHOOLS, MY
OWN
DANCERS AND DANCE SCHOOLS, MY OWN DANCE SCHOOL.
THERE
OWN DANCE SCHOOL. THERE IS A WAY THAT ITALIANS
LIVE
THERE IS A WAY THAT ITALIANS LIVE IN THEIR BODYS THAT BENEATH
THE
LIVE IN THEIR BODYS THAT BENEATH THE LEVEL OF LANGUAGE.
>>
THE LEVEL OF LANGUAGE. >> WHAT DO YOU THINK OF "THE
SOPRANOS"?
>>
SOPRANOS"? >> I LOATHE "THE SOPRANOS."
>>
>> I LOATHE "THE SOPRANOS." >> WHY?
>>
>> WHY? >> WARPATH, WARPATH.
I
>> WARPATH, WARPATH. I JOINED THE NATIONAL
ITALIAN-AMERICAN
I JOINED THE NATIONAL ITALIAN-AMERICAN FOUNDATION IN
PROTEST
ITALIAN-AMERICAN FOUNDATION IN PROTEST OF "THE SOPRANOS."
I'M
PROTEST OF "THE SOPRANOS." I'M ACTIVE NOW WITH THE SONS OF
ITALY,
I'M ACTIVE NOW WITH THE SONS OF ITALY, THAT HAD ITS HEADQUARTERS
NEXT
ITALY, THAT HAD ITS HEADQUARTERS NEXT TO MY OWN GRANDMOTHER'S
HOUSE
NEXT TO MY OWN GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE THERE.
I
HOUSE THERE. I LOVE THE "GODFATHER" FILMS.
I
I LOVE THE "GODFATHER" FILMS. I THOUGHT THEY WERE
MASTERPIECES.
I
MASTERPIECES. I REVERED MARIO PALUZZZO.
I
I REVERED MARIO PALUZZZO. I INTERVIEWED HIM FOR THE "NEW
YORK
I INTERVIEWED HIM FOR THE "NEW YORK TIMES."
NOT
YORK TIMES." NOT ONLY FOR THE WAY IT PORTRAYS
ITALIAN-AMERICANS
NOT ONLY FOR THE WAY IT PORTRAYS ITALIAN-AMERICANS FOR BUFFOONS,
BUT
ITALIAN-AMERICANS FOR BUFFOONS, BUT THE WAY IT BETRAYS
WORKING-CLASS
BUT THE WAY IT BETRAYS WORKING-CLASS LIFE.
"THE
WORKING-CLASS LIFE. "THE SOPRANOS" IS WILDLY OUT OF
DATE.
IT
DATE. IT HAS TO DO WITH THE
1960'S-STYLE
IT HAS TO DO WITH THE 1960'S-STYLE OF NORTH JERSEY,
NOT
1960'S-STYLE OF NORTH JERSEY, NOT 1990.
AND
NOT 1990. AND COMING -- I TEACH IN
PHILADELPHIA,
AND COMING -- I TEACH IN PHILADELPHIA, YOU KNOW, AND
THERE
PHILADELPHIA, YOU KNOW, AND THERE IS A STYLE, OK, THAT
WORKING-CLASS
THERE IS A STYLE, OK, THAT WORKING-CLASS PEOPLE HAVE, AN
EXPRESSION,
WORKING-CLASS PEOPLE HAVE, AN EXPRESSION, THAT I FEEL IS
CARICATURE
EXPRESSION, THAT I FEEL IS CARICATURE ON THAT SHOW.
I
CARICATURE ON THAT SHOW. I FEEL THAT SHOW IS A FAVORITE
OF
I FEEL THAT SHOW IS A FAVORITE OF UPPER MIDDLE-CLASS VIEWERS
WHO
OF UPPER MIDDLE-CLASS VIEWERS WHO ALMOST THINK THEY'RE GETTING
AN
WHO ALMOST THINK THEY'RE GETTING AN AND THROW POE LOGICAL
PERSPECTIVE
AN AND THROW POE LOGICAL PERSPECTIVE TO SOMETHING THAT
DOESN'T
PERSPECTIVE TO SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE AND, IN
FACT,
DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE AND, IN FACT, IS BEING -- IS A CARTOON.
A
FACT, IS BEING -- IS A CARTOON. A CARTOON VISION.
I
A CARTOON VISION. I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THROUGH A WHOLE
PROGRAM
I HAVEN'T GOTTEN THROUGH A WHOLE PROGRAM OF IT, OK?
I
PROGRAM OF IT, OK? I TRY TO WATCH IT AND I BECOME
FURIOUS.
BUT
FURIOUS. BUT I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE
GREAT
BUT I KNOW MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE GREAT FANS OF THE SHOW.
SO,
GREAT FANS OF THE SHOW. SO, I DON'T WANT, TO YOU KNOW,
MY
SO, I DON'T WANT, TO YOU KNOW, MY TAKE ON IT SHOULDN'T
INFLUENCE
MY TAKE ON IT SHOULDN'T INFLUENCE ANYONE ELSE OR ON
ANYTHING.
>>
ANYTHING. >> CHICAGO?
CALLER:
>> CHICAGO? CALLER: THANK YOU.
"SEXUAL
CALLER: THANK YOU. "SEXUAL PERSONA," WHICH I READS
FOR
"SEXUAL PERSONA," WHICH I READS FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIGH
SCHOOL,
FOR THE FIRST TIME IN HIGH SCHOOL, I'M 24 YEARS OLD NOW AND
I
SCHOOL, I'M 24 YEARS OLD NOW AND I REREAD AS I WAS STUDYING IN
FLORNINGS,
I REREAD AS I WAS STUDYING IN FLORNINGS, ITALY SITTING UNDER
THE
FLORNINGS, ITALY SITTING UNDER THE GREAT DUOMO WAS THE TEXT OF
MY
THE GREAT DUOMO WAS THE TEXT OF MY DEVELOPMENT AND I'M HAPPY TO
HEAR
MY DEVELOPMENT AND I'M HAPPY TO HEAR THAT YOU'RE WRITING TEXT.
I
HEAR THAT YOU'RE WRITING TEXT. I THINK BOOKS ARE THE RIGHT
GENRE
I THINK BOOKS ARE THE RIGHT GENRE FOR YOUR IDEAS WHICH HAVE
BEEN
GENRE FOR YOUR IDEAS WHICH HAVE BEEN ON A GRAND SCALE.
>>
BEEN ON A GRAND SCALE. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: YOUR ESSAY "JUNK BONDS
AND
CALLER: YOUR ESSAY "JUNK BONDS AND CORPORATE RAIDERS" WAS
ESSENTIAL
AND CORPORATE RAIDERS" WAS ESSENTIAL NOT TO ATTEND BUSINESS
SCHOOL
ESSENTIAL NOT TO ATTEND BUSINESS SCHOOL AND THE HUMANITY, BUT
RATHER
SCHOOL AND THE HUMANITY, BUT RATHER TO STUDY LAW, WHICH IS A
PROFESSIONAL
RATHER TO STUDY LAW, WHICH IS A PROFESSIONAL IN WHICH I THINK
HONORABLE
PROFESSIONAL IN WHICH I THINK HONORABLE MEN AND WOMEN CAN
STILL
HONORABLE MEN AND WOMEN CAN STILL ADDRESS THE INTEL HE CAN
TO
STILL ADDRESS THE INTEL HE CAN TO REAL QUESTIONS OF SOCIETY,
THE
TO REAL QUESTIONS OF SOCIETY, THE IDEAS OF THE ITALIAN
RENAISSANCE
THE IDEAS OF THE ITALIAN RENAISSANCE AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT
DID
RENAISSANCE AND PEOPLE LIKE THAT DID IN THE PAST.
MY
DID IN THE PAST. MY QUESTION IS, GIVEN THE
CURRENT
MY QUESTION IS, GIVEN THE CURRENT SITUATION IN ACADEMIA,
ESPECIALLY
CURRENT SITUATION IN ACADEMIA, ESPECIALLY IN THE HUMAN NOTICE,
WHERE
ESPECIALLY IN THE HUMAN NOTICE, WHERE SHOULD INTELLIGENT YOUNG
PEOPLE
WHERE SHOULD INTELLIGENT YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY DIRECT THEIR
ENERGY?
THANK
ENERGY? THANK YOU.
>>
THANK YOU. >> I THINK THAT ACTUALLY THE
THEORY
>> I THINK THAT ACTUALLY THE THEORY BOOM, THANK GOD, IS
WANING.
I
WANING. I FEEL THAT THE SITUATION IS
MUCH
I FEEL THAT THE SITUATION IS MUCH BETTER THAN IT WAS IN 1991
WHEN
MUCH BETTER THAN IT WAS IN 1991 WHEN "JUNK BONDS INCORPORATED"
WAS
WHEN "JUNK BONDS INCORPORATED" WAS PUBLISHED.
THAT
WAS PUBLISHED. THAT WAS A LONG PIECE.
>>
THAT WAS A LONG PIECE. >> WHICH ONE IS IT IN AGAIN?
>>
>> WHICH ONE IS IT IN AGAIN? >> "SEX, ART, AND AMERICAN
CULTURE,"
>> "SEX, ART, AND AMERICAN CULTURE," A LONG PIECE THAT
DISSECTS
CULTURE," A LONG PIECE THAT DISSECTS THAT ARION SENT ME TO
REVIEW,
DISSECTS THAT ARION SENT ME TO REVIEW, ABOUT TWO GAY ACADEMICS
AND
REVIEW, ABOUT TWO GAY ACADEMICS AND I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I
ACTUALLY
AND I WAS SHOCKED WHEN I ACTUALLY READ THEM.
WHEN
ACTUALLY READ THEM. WHEN I SAW THE TRASHING OF THE
GENERATIONS
WHEN I SAW THE TRASHING OF THE GENERATIONS OF GREAT SCHOLARS
WHO
GENERATIONS OF GREAT SCHOLARS WHO HAD COME BEFORE AND HAD DONE
THIS
WHO HAD COME BEFORE AND HAD DONE THIS BACK-BREAKING WORK TO PUTZ
TOGETHER
THIS BACK-BREAKING WORK TO PUTZ TOGETHER ALL THESE GREAT
ADDITIONS
TOGETHER ALL THESE GREAT ADDITIONS AND GATHER THIS
ARCHEOLOGICAL
ADDITIONS AND GATHER THIS ARCHEOLOGICAL INFORMATION IS
BEING
ARCHEOLOGICAL INFORMATION IS BEING THROWN OUT THE WINDOW BY
THESE
BEING THROWN OUT THE WINDOW BY THESE TRENDY CAREERISTS GOING
FROM
THESE TRENDY CAREERISTS GOING FROM CONFERENCE TO CONFERENCE.
WHEN
FROM CONFERENCE TO CONFERENCE. WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN THE
1990'S,
WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN THE 1990'S, THERE WAS ONE MAN WHO
HAD
1990'S, THERE WAS ONE MAN WHO HAD BEEN REVERED AS A NAZI
SYMPATHIZER,
HAD BEEN REVERED AS A NAZI SYMPATHIZER, I LOVE THAT, BUT
ANOTHER
SYMPATHIZER, I LOVE THAT, BUT ANOTHER WAS DEEPLY ENTRANCED IN
FEMINISM
ANOTHER WAS DEEPLY ENTRANCED IN FEMINISM AND I WENT AFTER THEM
AND
FEMINISM AND I WENT AFTER THEM AND I SHOW IN THAT PIECE, WHICH
I
AND I SHOW IN THAT PIECE, WHICH I STAND BEHIND, OF ALL THE
INSUFFICIENCIES
I STAND BEHIND, OF ALL THE INSUFFICIENCIES AND THE
THINKING.
BUT
THINKING. BUT I THINK THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS
NOW,
BUT I THINK THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS NOW, APPARENTLY THE "NEW YORK
TIMES"
NOW, APPARENTLY THE "NEW YORK TIMES" HAVE BEEN REPORTING
RECENTLY
TIMES" HAVE BEEN REPORTING RECENTLY THAT THERE WAS A WHOLE
GLUM
RECENTLY THAT THERE WAS A WHOLE GLUM CONFERENCE, A CONFAB OF
THEORISTS
GLUM CONFERENCE, A CONFAB OF THEORISTS WHO GOT TOGETHER AND
SAID
THEORISTS WHO GOT TOGETHER AND SAID WHERE NOW, WITHER NOW,
THEORY
SAID WHERE NOW, WITHER NOW, THEORY IS OVER.
WELL,
THEORY IS OVER. WELL, YEAH, YOU TRASHED ACT
DEEM.
YOU
DEEM. YOU TRASHED IT.
OK?
GREAT
OK? GREAT ART AND LITERATURE WAS
DIMINISHED
GREAT ART AND LITERATURE WAS DIMINISHED AND NOT ONLY FOR
UNDERGRADUATE,
DIMINISHED AND NOT ONLY FOR UNDERGRADUATE, BUT IN THE EYES
OF
UNDERGRADUATE, BUT IN THE EYES OF THE NATION AND NOW WE HAVE
THIS
OF THE NATION AND NOW WE HAVE THIS WASTE LAND.
I'M
THIS WASTE LAND. I'M SPEAKING OF HUMANITIES,
AGAIN,
I'M SPEAKING OF HUMANITIES, AGAIN, ONLY.
DOESN'T
AGAIN, ONLY. DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE SIGNS AND
NOT
DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE SIGNS AND NOT IN HISTORY PROPER, NO SOME
OF
NOT IN HISTORY PROPER, NO SOME OF THE MOST P.C. PLACES.
IT
OF THE MOST P.C. PLACES. IT IS A GOOD MOMENT FOR PERHAPS
GRADUATE
IT IS A GOOD MOMENT FOR PERHAPS GRADUATE STUDENTS TO RESTART
THINKING
GRADUATE STUDENTS TO RESTART THINKING ABOUT THE HUMANITIES.
MY
THINKING ABOUT THE HUMANITIES. MY MANTRA IS ALWAYS HATE DOGMARX
DO
MY MANTRA IS ALWAYS HATE DOGMARX DO NOT ACCEPT IT FOR ANYTHING,
INCLUDING
DO NOT ACCEPT IT FOR ANYTHING, INCLUDING ME.
I'M
INCLUDING ME. I'M SIMPLY A FREE THINKER.
THAT'S
I'M SIMPLY A FREE THINKER. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
DO
THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. DO NOT FOLLOW THE DOGMA OF ANY
INSTITUTION
DO NOT FOLLOW THE DOGMA OF ANY INSTITUTION OR BODIES OF THEORY.
YOU
INSTITUTION OR BODIES OF THEORY. YOU MUST RESPOND YOURSELF TO
GREAT
YOU MUST RESPOND YOURSELF TO GREAT LITERATURE AND ART.
I
GREAT LITERATURE AND ART. I THINK THE THING WILL BE
RESTRUCK
I THINK THE THING WILL BE RESTRUCK CONSTRUCTED.
HARLEDSE
RESTRUCK CONSTRUCTED. HARLEDSE BLOOM SAID ON THIS VERY
PROGRAM
HARLEDSE BLOOM SAID ON THIS VERY PROGRAM IT MAY NOT HAPPEN IN OUR
LIFETIME,
PROGRAM IT MAY NOT HAPPEN IN OUR LIFETIME, BUT I'M CONVINCED THE
HUMANITIES
LIFETIME, BUT I'M CONVINCED THE HUMANITIES WILL REBOUND.
EVERYTHING
HUMANITIES WILL REBOUND. EVERYTHING ALWAYS REBOUNDS IN
THE
EVERYTHING ALWAYS REBOUNDS IN THE LONG RUN.
THE
THE LONG RUN. THE COLLEGES ARE IN A PERIODS
NOW
THE COLLEGES ARE IN A PERIODS NOW OF RETRENCHMENT, AN OBSCENE
PERIODS,
NOW OF RETRENCHMENT, AN OBSCENE PERIODS, OF COURSE, OF
EXTRAVAGANT,
PERIODS, OF COURSE, OF EXTRAVAGANT, YOU KNOW, TUITION
CHARGES
EXTRAVAGANT, YOU KNOW, TUITION CHARGES BY THE MAJOR
UNIVERSITIES.
I
UNIVERSITIES. I MEAN, ENORMOUS SCAM THAT THE
MAJOR
I MEAN, ENORMOUS SCAM THAT THE MAJOR MEDIA HAS IGNORED, A
SCANDAL
MAJOR MEDIA HAS IGNORED, A SCANDAL OF BANKRUPT FAMILIES.
SO,
SCANDAL OF BANKRUPT FAMILIES. SO, THERE WILL BE A PERIODS OF
RETRENCHMENT
SO, THERE WILL BE A PERIODS OF RETRENCHMENT BEING REPORTED NOW,
ALL
RETRENCHMENT BEING REPORTED NOW, ALL KINDS OF CUTBACKS AT
STANFORD,
ALL KINDS OF CUTBACKS AT STANFORD, DUKE AND SO ON, AND I
THINK
STANFORD, DUKE AND SO ON, AND I THINK AFTER WE GO THROUGH THIS
PERIODS,
THINK AFTER WE GO THROUGH THIS PERIODS, OK, WHERE I'M WORRIED
ABOUT
PERIODS, OK, WHERE I'M WORRIED ABOUT HAVE THE HUMANITIES BEEN
MARGINALIZED,
ABOUT HAVE THE HUMANITIES BEEN MARGINALIZED, ARE THEY
WORTHLESSS?
WHEN
WORTHLESSS? WHEN I ENTERED GRADUATE SCHOOL
IN
WHEN I ENTERED GRADUATE SCHOOL IN 1968, POETRY AND LITERATURE
AND
IN 1968, POETRY AND LITERATURE AND ART WERE AT THE HIGH POINT
OF
AND ART WERE AT THE HIGH POINT OF PRESTIGE.
WHAT
OF PRESTIGE. WHAT DID THE HUMANITIES
DOMESTICS
WHAT DID THE HUMANITIES DOMESTICS DO IN AMERICA TO TRASH
THAT?
NO
THAT? NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT GOES ON
IN
NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHAT GOES ON IN CAMPUS.
NO
IN CAMPUS. NO ONE BELIEVES THAT LITERATURE
AND
NO ONE BELIEVES THAT LITERATURE AND ART ARE OF INTEREST THANKS
TO
AND ART ARE OF INTEREST THANKS TO THESE ISSUES ON CAMPUS.
I
TO THESE ISSUES ON CAMPUS. I ENCOURAGE THE YOUNG PEOPLE
WATCHING,
I ENCOURAGE THE YOUNG PEOPLE WATCHING, THIS IS A GOOD MOMENT
TO
WATCHING, THIS IS A GOOD MOMENT TO ENTER INTO -- AND PUT YOUR
IMPRESS,
TO ENTER INTO -- AND PUT YOUR IMPRESS, YOUR INTERPRETATION ON
THE
IMPRESS, YOUR INTERPRETATION ON THE WHOLE CULTURAL TRADITION.
I
THE WHOLE CULTURAL TRADITION. I THINK THERE IS A GREAT FUTURE
IN
I THINK THERE IS A GREAT FUTURE IN TEACHING.
IF
IN TEACHING. IF ONLY WE COULD LIBERATE THE
PUBLIC
IF ONLY WE COULD LIBERATE THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.
OK?
OH.
ALL
OH. ALL THESE UNEMPLOYED PH.D.S AND
M.A.'S
ALL THESE UNEMPLOYED PH.D.S AND M.A.'S IN THE HUMANITIES.
WE
M.A.'S IN THE HUMANITIES. WE CAN'T EMPLOY THEM IN THE
PUBLIC
WE CAN'T EMPLOY THEM IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS?
WHY?
BECAUSE
WHY? BECAUSE OF THIS TERRIBLE
PARASITIC
BECAUSE OF THIS TERRIBLE PARASITIC TEACHER UNION THING
AND
PARASITIC TEACHER UNION THING AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN
EDUCATION
AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN EDUCATION DEGREE.
PUT
EDUCATION DEGREE. PUT THE PH.D.S TO WORK IN THE
CLASSROOMS
PUT THE PH.D.S TO WORK IN THE CLASSROOMS FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES,
OUR
CLASSROOMS FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES, OUR INNER CITIES, OUR SCHOOLS
ARE
OUR INNER CITIES, OUR SCHOOLS ARE A MESS.
A
ARE A MESS. A SCANDAL.
>>
A SCANDAL. >> YOU SAID NEXT YEAR WILL BE 20
YEARS?
>>
YEARS? >> 20 YEARS AT STUDENTS OF THE
ART.
THIS
ART. THIS TIGHT IS A ARE CENT ONE.
IT
THIS TIGHT IS A ARE CENT ONE. IT WAS A MERGER OF THE
PHILADELPHIA
IT WAS A MERGER OF THE PHILADELPHIA COLLEGE OF ART WITH
THE
PHILADELPHIA COLLEGE OF ART WITH THE PHILADELPHIA COLLEGE OF
PERFORMING
THE PHILADELPHIA COLLEGE OF PERFORMING ARTS IN THE LATE 19
90'S
PERFORMING ARTS IN THE LATE 19 90'S AND BOTH THOSE INSTITUTIONS
GO
90'S AND BOTH THOSE INSTITUTIONS GO BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY.
THE
GO BACK TO THE 19TH CENTURY. THE ART SCHOOL WAS ASSOCIATED
WITH
THE ART SCHOOL WAS ASSOCIATED WITH THE PHILADELPHIA MUSEUM,
OK,
WITH THE PHILADELPHIA MUSEUM, OK, AND THERE WAS A CONSERVATORY
FOUNDED
OK, AND THERE WAS A CONSERVATORY FOUNDED BY MUSICIANS AND
COMPOSERS.
WILL
COMPOSERS. WILL WAS THE PHILADELPHIA MUSIC
ACADEMY.
THIS
ACADEMY. THIS IS THE INCARNATION NOW
THAT'S
THIS IS THE INCARNATION NOW THAT'S EXPANDED INTO ALL KINDS
OF
THAT'S EXPANDED INTO ALL KINDS OF AREAS, JAZZ, DANCE,
ANIMATION,
OF AREAS, JAZZ, DANCE, ANIMATION, ALL KINDS OF THINGS.
>>
ANIMATION, ALL KINDS OF THINGS. >> BEFORE THAT AT BENNINGTON?
>>
>> BEFORE THAT AT BENNINGTON? >> BENNINGTON, MY FIRST JOB FOR
EIGHT
>> BENNINGTON, MY FIRST JOB FOR EIGHT YEARS IN THE 1970'S AND I
GOT
EIGHT YEARS IN THE 1970'S AND I GOT INTO ONE PROBLEM AFTER
ANOTHER.
I
ANOTHER. I WAS STILL -- I WAS IN A STATE
OF
I WAS STILL -- I WAS IN A STATE OF DELUSION CITY.
I
OF DELUSION CITY. I DIDN'T TAKE DRUG IN THE
1690'S.
I
1690'S. I DON'T TAKE DRUGS, I'M AGAINST
DRUG.
I
DRUG. I BELIEVE IN SOPHISTICATED USE
OF
I BELIEVE IN SOPHISTICATED USE OF ALCOHOL WITH MEALS.
BUT
OF ALCOHOL WITH MEALS. BUT I WAS IN A EQUALLY STATED
AREA
BUT I WAS IN A EQUALLY STATED AREA OF ILLUSION.
I
AREA OF ILLUSION. I HAD A WONDERFUL EXPERIENCE
THERE.
BRILLIANT
THERE. BRILLIANT STUDENTS, SOME OF WHOM
I
BRILLIANT STUDENTS, SOME OF WHOM I STILL HAVE -- LIKE HEIDI JOHN
SCHMIDT
I STILL HAVE -- LIKE HEIDI JOHN SCHMIDT WHO WAS A WRITER AND
NOVELIST.
HER
NOVELIST. HER NOVEL IS COMING OUT IN A FEW
MONTHS.
JUST
MONTHS. JUST SPOKE TO KRISTIN LIPENCOTT,
THE
JUST SPOKE TO KRISTIN LIPENCOTT, THE DIRECTOR OF THE OBSERVATORY
MUSEUM
THE DIRECTOR OF THE OBSERVATORY MUSEUM IN LONDON AND SO ON.
I
MUSEUM IN LONDON AND SO ON. I KNOW SUCH CREATIVE PEOPLE AT
BENNINGTON
I KNOW SUCH CREATIVE PEOPLE AT BENNINGTON T. I WAS A WONDERFUL
TIME
BENNINGTON T. I WAS A WONDERFUL TIME BUT EVERYONE WAS MAD.
THERE
TIME BUT EVERYONE WAS MAD. THERE WAS THIS SORT OF MADIN'
AFTER
THERE WAS THIS SORT OF MADIN' AFTER THE 1960'S.
>>
AFTER THE 1960'S. >> ONE OF YOUR DETRACTORS SAID
YOU
>> ONE OF YOUR DETRACTORS SAID YOU LEFT THERE AFTER A
FISTFIGHT.
>>
FISTFIGHT. >> OH, YEAH.
YEAH,
>> OH, YEAH. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.
IT'S
YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. IT'S A LONG STORY.
OK?
IT'S
OK? IT'S A VERY LONG STORY.
YES,
IT'S A VERY LONG STORY. YES, THERE IS A CULMINATING
INSTANCE
YES, THERE IS A CULMINATING INSTANCE -- BUT EVERY COUPLE OF
YEARS
INSTANCE -- BUT EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS THERE WAS A BIG THING
WHERE
YEARS THERE WAS A BIG THING WHERE I KICKED THE STUDENT'S
REAR
WHERE I KICKED THE STUDENT'S REAR END AND THE FEMINIST
STUDENT
REAR END AND THE FEMINIST STUDENT GAVE ME THE AWARD OF THE
GOLDEN
STUDENT GAVE ME THE AWARD OF THE GOLDEN BOOT.
I
GOLDEN BOOT. I WAS ONE DRAMA AFTER ANOTHER.
FINAL
I WAS ONE DRAMA AFTER ANOTHER. FINAL THINKLY THERE WAS A FIST
FIGHT
FINAL THINKLY THERE WAS A FIST FIGHT AT THE DANCE.
I
FIGHT AT THE DANCE. I WAS TOO YOUNG.
I
I WAS TOO YOUNG. I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE.
BUT
I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN THERE. BUT AT BENNINGTON, THERE WAS NO
RANKS.
YOU'RE
RANKS. YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE CALLED BY
YOUR
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE CALLED BY YOUR FIRST NAME.
EVERYTHING
YOUR FIRST NAME. EVERYTHING WAS VERY LIKE -- SO,
YEAH,
EVERYTHING WAS VERY LIKE -- SO, YEAH, THERE WAS A CULMINATING
DRAMA,
YEAH, THERE WAS A CULMINATING DRAMA, OK.
BUT
DRAMA, OK. BUT I WAS ALWAYS A VERY PHYSICAL
PERSONAL.
I'VE
PERSONAL. I'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT LIFE.
ONE
I'VE LEARNED A LOT ABOUT LIFE. ONE OF BIG THINGS I LEARNED -- I
FEEL
ONE OF BIG THINGS I LEARNED -- I FEEL I GREW UP AT BENINGTON, I
REALLY
FEEL I GREW UP AT BENINGTON, I REALLY DO, MY FIRST JOB.
ONE
REALLY DO, MY FIRST JOB. ONE OF THE BIG LESSONS I
LEARNED,
ONE OF THE BIG LESSONS I LEARNED, OK, IS THAT
INSTITUTIONS
LEARNED, OK, IS THAT INSTITUTIONS CHANGE SLOWLY AND
THAT
INSTITUTIONS CHANGE SLOWLY AND THAT IF YOU WANT TO EFFECT
CHANGE,
THAT IF YOU WANT TO EFFECT CHANGE, AND THIS IS TRUE OF
GOVERNMENT,
CHANGE, AND THIS IS TRUE OF GOVERNMENT, TOO, IT MUST BE
INCREMENTTAL
GOVERNMENT, TOO, IT MUST BE INCREMENTTAL CHANGE.
WE
INCREMENTTAL CHANGE. WE IN THE 1960'S WERE TOO
IMPATIENT
WE IN THE 1960'S WERE TOO IMPATIENT AND WE HAD THIS
NARCISSISTIC
IMPATIENT AND WE HAD THIS NARCISSISTIC MANIACAL IDEA THAT
CHANGE
NARCISSISTIC MANIACAL IDEA THAT CHANGE HAD TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT
AND
CHANGE HAD TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT AND WE HAD TO DO IT, THIS SENSE
OF
AND WE HAD TO DO IT, THIS SENSE OF THE LEFT THAT WE HAD.
AND
OF THE LEFT THAT WE HAD. AND SOME OF THE MOST BRILLIANT
MINDS
AND SOME OF THE MOST BRILLIANT MINDS THAT I KNEW, THEY'RE ALL
SCREWED
MINDS THAT I KNEW, THEY'RE ALL SCREWED UP.
THROUGH
SCREWED UP. THROUGH DRUGS OR THROUGH
MISJUDGMENTS
THROUGH DRUGS OR THROUGH MISJUDGMENTS OR THEY DIED OF
AIDS
MISJUDGMENTS OR THEY DIED OF AIDS OR WHATEVER.
I
AIDS OR WHATEVER. I FEEL THAT SOME OF THE GREATEST
POINTS
I FEEL THAT SOME OF THE GREATEST POINTS OF VIEW IN THE 1960'S
NEVER
POINTS OF VIEW IN THE 1960'S NEVER FOUND THE BOOK.
THEY
NEVER FOUND THE BOOK. THEY NEVER GOT AS FAR AS LEAVING
THE
THEY NEVER GOT AS FAR AS LEAVING THE BOOK, LEAVING SOMETHING FOR
PROSPERITY
THE BOOK, LEAVING SOMETHING FOR PROSPERITY WHICH -- POSSER
THETY,
PROSPERITY WHICH -- POSSER THETY, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.
1960'S
THETY, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT. 1960'S WAS EXPERIENCE, BE
EXPERIENCED.
YOU
EXPERIENCED. YOU CAN'T JUST BE AN EXPERIENCE,
WHICH
YOU CAN'T JUST BE AN EXPERIENCE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TAUGHT IN
BUDES
WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE TAUGHT IN BUDES HIM OR HINDUISM, OK?
IN
BUDES HIM OR HINDUISM, OK? IN THE WESTERN CULTURE, THERE IS
THIS
IN THE WESTERN CULTURE, THERE IS THIS IMPULSE TO CREATE SOMETHING
THAT
THIS IMPULSE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO LAST.
NOTHING
THAT IS GOING TO LAST. NOTHING WILL LAST.
BUT
NOTHING WILL LAST. BUT THIS IMPULSE TO CREATE THE
THING
BUT THIS IMPULSE TO CREATE THE THING THAT WE HOPE THIS LAST
HAS,
THING THAT WE HOPE THIS LAST HAS, I THINK, CREATED OUR
PYRAMIDING
HAS, I THINK, CREATED OUR PYRAMIDING ACHIEVEMENTS, THAT IS
ONE
PYRAMIDING ACHIEVEMENTS, THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT GLORIES OF THE
WEST.
>>
WEST. >> OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA YOU'RE
NEXT
>> OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA YOU'RE NEXT WITH CAMILLE PAG LEAH.
GO
NEXT WITH CAMILLE PAG LEAH. GO AHEAD, OAKLAND.
CALLER:
GO AHEAD, OAKLAND. CALLER: YES, I HAVE A QUESTION.
LOVE
CALLER: YES, I HAVE A QUESTION. LOVE YOUR WORK.
>>
LOVE YOUR WORK. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR
TAKE
CALLER: I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR TAKE ON AN EXCLUSIVELY MALE
ORGANIZATION
TAKE ON AN EXCLUSIVELY MALE ORGANIZATION LIKE THE HELL'S
ANGEL'S
ORGANIZATION LIKE THE HELL'S ANGEL'S MOTORCYCLE CLUB AND A
LEADER
ANGEL'S MOTORCYCLE CLUB AND A LEADER LIKE SONNY BARNES.
>>
LEADER LIKE SONNY BARNES. >> OH, WOW.
>>
>> OH, WOW. >> YOU'RE GETTING EVERYTHING
TODAY.
>>
TODAY. >> THE HELL'S ANGELS WERE LIKE A
TREMENDOUS
>> THE HELL'S ANGELS WERE LIKE A TREMENDOUS CULTURAL ICONS TO US
IN
TREMENDOUS CULTURAL ICONS TO US IN THE 1960'S, PERHAPS
EXCESSIVELY.
OF
EXCESSIVELY. OF COURSE, THAT WHOLE MOTORCYCLE
THING
OF COURSE, THAT WHOLE MOTORCYCLE THING WAS LAUNCHED FOR US BY
MARLON
THING WAS LAUNCHED FOR US BY MARLON BRANDO'S APPEARANCE IN
"THE
MARLON BRANDO'S APPEARANCE IN "THE WILD ONE," WHICH HAD ITS
ROOTS
"THE WILD ONE," WHICH HAD ITS ROOTS AND SOME SORT OF EARLY
HELL'S
ROOTS AND SOME SORT OF EARLY HELL'S ANGELS INCIDENT THAT
HAPPENED
HELL'S ANGELS INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED IN A TOWN IN 148 IN
NORTHERN
HAPPENED IN A TOWN IN 148 IN NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, IF I
REMEMBER
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA, IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY.
BUT
REMEMBER CORRECTLY. BUT THE IMAGE OF BRANDO ON HIS
MOTORCYCLE
BUT THE IMAGE OF BRANDO ON HIS MOTORCYCLE AND LEATHER JACKET
WAS
MOTORCYCLE AND LEATHER JACKET WAS ON POSTERS ON OUR WALLS AT
THAT
WAS ON POSTERS ON OUR WALLS AT THAT TIME.
WELL,
THAT TIME. WELL, THE HELL'S ANGELS THING,
IT
WELL, THE HELL'S ANGELS THING, IT IS LIKE SO AMERICAN, SORT OF
BE
IT IS LIKE SO AMERICAN, SORT OF BE FREE.
THEY'RE
BE FREE. THEY'RE LIKE VIKINGS.
VIKINGS
THEY'RE LIKE VIKINGS. VIKINGS IN THE OPEN AIR.
OF
VIKINGS IN THE OPEN AIR. OF COURSE, THE DISASTEROUS ERROR
MADE
OF COURSE, THE DISASTEROUS ERROR MADE BY THE ROLLING STONES AND
HAVE
MADE BY THE ROLLING STONES AND HAVE THEM BE SECURITY GUARDSES
FOR
HAVE THEM BE SECURITY GUARDSES FOR THE ROCK CONCERT AT
ALTAMONTE
FOR THE ROCK CONCERT AT ALTAMONTE AND IT IS CHRONICLED
IN
ALTAMONTE AND IT IS CHRONICLED IN "GIVE ME SHELTER," I DON'T
THINK
IN "GIVE ME SHELTER," I DON'T THINK THAT THE HELL'S ANGEL ARE
A
THINK THAT THE HELL'S ANGEL ARE A MODEL FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
BECAUSE
A MODEL FOR SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE SO ISOLATIONIST
AND,
BECAUSE THEY'RE SO ISOLATIONIST AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE KIND OF A
TRIBAL
AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE KIND OF A TRIBAL UNIT AND TODAY, OF
COURSE,
TRIBAL UNIT AND TODAY, OF COURSE, IT IS NOT THE SAME.
TODAY'S
COURSE, IT IS NOT THE SAME. TODAY'S HELL'S ANGELS IS A FAR
MORE
TODAY'S HELL'S ANGELS IS A FAR MORE GENTEEL ORGANIZATION THAN
IT
MORE GENTEEL ORGANIZATION THAN IT ONCE WAS.
THEY
IT ONCE WAS. THEY WILL LIVE FOREVER IN TERMS
OF
THEY WILL LIVE FOREVER IN TERMS OF AMERICAN CULTURAL MODELS,
EVEN
OF AMERICAN CULTURAL MODELS, EVEN FOR THE WORLD AT LARGE.
THE
EVEN FOR THE WORLD AT LARGE. THE MOTORCYCLE USED TO BE FOR
EUROPEANS
THE MOTORCYCLE USED TO BE FOR EUROPEANS QUITE A PROPER AND
KIND
EUROPEANS QUITE A PROPER AND KIND OF ARTIFICIAL BIKE USED BY
MILITARY
KIND OF ARTIFICIAL BIKE USED BY MILITARY OFFICERS AND SO ON.
BUT
MILITARY OFFICERS AND SO ON. BUT IT WAS AMERICANS THROUGH
HELL'S
BUT IT WAS AMERICANS THROUGH HELL'S ANGELS WHO TURNED THE
MOTOR
HELL'S ANGELS WHO TURNED THE MOTOR BIKE INTO THE HOG, INTO A
KIND
MOTOR BIKE INTO THE HOG, INTO A KIND OF MODERN HOG HORSE, MOVING
OVER
KIND OF MODERN HOG HORSE, MOVING OVER THE OPEN PLAINS.
>>
OVER THE OPEN PLAINS. >> THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT
FINAL
>> THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO MIGHT FINAL THIS PICTURE OF YOU OR
GRAPHIC
FINAL THIS PICTURE OF YOU OR GRAPHIC OF YOU -- THEY MIGHT NOT
APPRECIATE
GRAPHIC OF YOU -- THEY MIGHT NOT APPRECIATE IT OR THEY MAY NOT
LIKE
APPRECIATE IT OR THEY MAY NOT LIKE IT SO I'LL TELL THEM AHEAD
OF
LIKE IT SO I'LL TELL THEM AHEAD OF TIME IN CASE THEY DON'T WANT
TO
OF TIME IN CASE THEY DON'T WANT TO SEE IT.
THIS
TO SEE IT. THIS COMES FROM ONE OF YOUR
BOOKS,
THIS COMES FROM ONE OF YOUR BOOKS, TALKING ABOUT
MOTORCYCLES.
>>
MOTORCYCLES. >> OH!
>>
>> OH! >> THIS WAS THE PICTURE OF YOU,
A
>> THIS WAS THE PICTURE OF YOU, A CARICATURE OF YOU THAT WAS NOT
ALLOWED
A CARICATURE OF YOU THAT WAS NOT ALLOWED TO BE PUT IN THE "SAN
FRANCISCO
ALLOWED TO BE PUT IN THE "SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER."
HOW
FRANCISCO EXAMINER." HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT?
HOW
HOW DID THIS COME ABOUT? HOW DID THIS CARICATURE COME
ABOUT?
>>
ABOUT? >> WELL, I GUESS THEY WERE DOING
A
>> WELL, I GUESS THEY WERE DOING A PROFILE OF ME OR SOMETHING IN
THE
A PROFILE OF ME OR SOMETHING IN THE "SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER."
HE
THE "SAN FRANCISCO EXAMINER." HE DID THIS AND I GUESS THERE
ARE,
HE DID THIS AND I GUESS THERE ARE, HESITANT TO SAY, SEXUAL
DEVICES
ARE, HESITANT TO SAY, SEXUAL DEVICES FOR HANDLE BARS, ISN'T
THAT
DEVICES FOR HANDLE BARS, ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
>>
THAT CORRECT? >> YES.
>>
>> YES. >> THERE IT IS.
AND
>> THERE IT IS. AND THEY FOUND THAT IT WAS NOT
SUITABLE
AND THEY FOUND THAT IT WAS NOT SUITABLE FOR A FAMILY NEWSPAPER.
BUT
SUITABLE FOR A FAMILY NEWSPAPER. BUT IT ISES A WONDERFUL
CARICATURE
BUT IT ISES A WONDERFUL CARICATURE AND I TOLD HIM I
WOULD
CARICATURE AND I TOLD HIM I WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT IN A FUTURE
BOOK
WOULD LIKE TO PUT IT IN A FUTURE BOOK OF MINE AND THERE IT IS.
>>
BOOK OF MINE AND THERE IT IS. >> RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA.
CALLER:
>> RALEIGH, NORTH CAROLINA. CALLER: HELLO, DR. PAGLIA.
ONE
CALLER: HELLO, DR. PAGLIA. ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS
IN
ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN EARLY EDUCATION IS A GREATER
EMPHASIS
IN EARLY EDUCATION IS A GREATER EMPHASIS ON DEVELOPMENTAL
PSYCHOLOGY,
EMPHASIS ON DEVELOPMENTAL PSYCHOLOGY, THINGS THAT ARE NOT
BEING
PSYCHOLOGY, THINGS THAT ARE NOT BEING TAUGHT THAT HELP THEM
ORDERS
BEING TAUGHT THAT HELP THEM ORDERS THEIR LIVES AND THEIR
EDUCATION.
CAN
EDUCATION. CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT?
AND
CAN YOU COMMENT ON THAT? AND COMMENT -- WELL N THAT
LIGHT,
AND COMMENT -- WELL N THAT LIGHT, IT SEEMS THAT WELL,
MAYBE,
LIGHT, IT SEEMS THAT WELL, MAYBE, WE DON'T NEEDS SO MUCH
HISTORY
MAYBE, WE DON'T NEEDS SO MUCH HISTORY EARLY ON, THAT HISTORY
IS
HISTORY EARLY ON, THAT HISTORY IS REALLY AN ADVANCE KIND OF
THING
IS REALLY AN ADVANCE KIND OF THING TO STUDY.
>>
THING TO STUDY. >> I'M NOT SURE.
CAN
>> I'M NOT SURE. CAN YOU TELL ME, YOU'RE SAYING
THAT
CAN YOU TELL ME, YOU'RE SAYING THAT DEVELOPMENTTAL PSYCHOLOGY
IS
THAT DEVELOPMENTTAL PSYCHOLOGY IS BEING NEGLECTED IN WHAT AREA
IN
IS BEING NEGLECTED IN WHAT AREA IN YOUR EXPERIENCE?
WHERE?
CALLER:
WHERE? CALLER: IN GRADE SCHOOL.
>>
CALLER: IN GRADE SCHOOL. >> IN GRADE SCHOOL.
BY
>> IN GRADE SCHOOL. BY THE TEEMPLES, YOU MEAN?
CALLER:
BY THE TEEMPLES, YOU MEAN? CALLER: STUDENTS AND PARENTS
HAVEN'T
CALLER: STUDENTS AND PARENTS HAVEN'T BEEN TAUGHT.
THEY'RE
HAVEN'T BEEN TAUGHT. THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO TAKE CONTROL
OF
THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO TAKE CONTROL OF EDUCATION AS WELL AS THEY
SHOULD.
>>
SHOULD. >> MM-HMM.
WELL,
>> MM-HMM. WELL, I MEAN, I CAN SAY A COUPLE
OF
WELL, I MEAN, I CAN SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS.
THERE
OF THINGS. THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN
AMERICAN
THERE ARE A LOT OF PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN LIFE IN TERMS OF, YOU
KNOW,
AMERICAN LIFE IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT CHILDREN ARE
ARRIVING
KNOW, I THINK THAT CHILDREN ARE ARRIVING AT SCHOOL WITH
DISCIPLINE
ARRIVING AT SCHOOL WITH DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS THAT THE
SCHOOL
DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS THAT THE SCHOOL SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DEAL
WITH,
SCHOOL SHOULD NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH, OK?
I
WITH, OK? I THINK THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE --
MY
I THINK THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE -- MY PARENT'S DAY WERE MUCH FIRMER
IN
MY PARENT'S DAY WERE MUCH FIRMER IN PRESERVING AN ORDERLY
ENVIRONMENT
IN PRESERVING AN ORDERLY ENVIRONMENT SO THAT THE
WORKING-CLASS
ENVIRONMENT SO THAT THE WORKING-CLASS KIDS COULD, YOU
KNOW,
WORKING-CLASS KIDS COULD, YOU KNOW, COULD LEARN.
AND
KNOW, COULD LEARN. AND SO I THINK ALSO THAT PARENTS
ARE
AND SO I THINK ALSO THAT PARENTS ARE NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY
FOR
ARE NOT TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT THEY CAN IMPART TO THE
CHILD
FOR WHAT THEY CAN IMPART TO THE CHILD BEFORE THE CHILD EVER
REACHES
CHILD BEFORE THE CHILD EVER REACHES EVEN PRESCHOOL.
THE
REACHES EVEN PRESCHOOL. THE BASIS OF MY EDUCATION REALLY
WAS
THE BASIS OF MY EDUCATION REALLY WAS MY PARENTS READING TO ME.
WE
WAS MY PARENTS READING TO ME. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY FOR
HEAVEN'S
WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY MONEY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES.
MY
HEAVEN'S SAKES. MY FARE WAS STILL IN COLLEGE
WHEN
MY FARE WAS STILL IN COLLEGE WHEN I WAS BORN.
MY
WHEN I WAS BORN. MY PARENTS SIMPLY READS TO ME
AND
MY PARENTS SIMPLY READS TO ME AND I THINK THAT THAT IS
ABSOLUTELY
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL, PARTICULARLY
IN
ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL, PARTICULARLY IN THIS MODERN MEDIA AGE THAT HE
--
IN THIS MODERN MEDIA AGE THAT HE -- WHAT WAS THE SECOND QUESTION?
I'M
-- WHAT WAS THE SECOND QUESTION? I'M SORRY.
>>
I'M SORRY. >> I MISSED IT.
SORRY.
>>
SORRY. >> THE SECOND ONE -- OH, NO.
IT
>> THE SECOND ONE -- OH, NO. IT WAS SOMETHING I WANTED TO GET
TO
IT WAS SOMETHING I WANTED TO GET TO ACTUALLY FIRST.
OH,
TO ACTUALLY FIRST. OH, DEAR.
OH,
OH, DEAR. OH, DEAR.
I
OH, DEAR. I HAPPENS EVERY ONCE IN A WHY.
OH,
I HAPPENS EVERY ONCE IN A WHY. OH, DEAR.
>>
OH, DEAR. >> IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WE'LL
COME
>> IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, WE'LL COME BACK TO IT.
>>
COME BACK TO IT. >> SO SORRY.
>>
>> SO SORRY. >> NEVADA, CALIFORNIA.
CALLER:
>> NEVADA, CALIFORNIA. CALLER: YES, HELLO.
I
CALLER: YES, HELLO. I ADMIRE YOUR BOOKS AND MY
HUSBAND
I ADMIRE YOUR BOOKS AND MY HUSBAND IS A FAN OF YOURS AND HE
IS
HUSBAND IS A FAN OF YOURS AND HE IS THE ONE THAT RECOMMENDED I
READ
IS THE ONE THAT RECOMMENDED I READ YOUR BOOK.
HE
READ YOUR BOOK. HE LOVES THEM.
>>
HE LOVES THEM. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I WANTED TO QUESTION YOU
ABOUT
CALLER: I WANTED TO QUESTION YOU ABOUT THE FEELING OF THE MASS
CULTURAL
ABOUT THE FEELING OF THE MASS CULTURAL IDOLS THAT WERE -- AND
YOU
CULTURAL IDOLS THAT WERE -- AND YOU MENTIONED MADONNA AND THEN
SHARON
YOU MENTIONED MADONNA AND THEN SHARON STONE AND I WANT TO PUT
FORTH
SHARON STONE AND I WANT TO PUT FORTH THE NEW CANDIDATE FOR THE
YOUNGER
FORTH THE NEW CANDIDATE FOR THE YOUNGER GENERATION, JENNIFER
LOPEZ.
SHE
LOPEZ. SHE HAS HER OWN INDUSTRY, MONEY,
SHE
SHE HAS HER OWN INDUSTRY, MONEY, SHE IS A SEXUAL ICON FOR THE
YOUNGER
SHE IS A SEXUAL ICON FOR THE YOUNGER GENERATION.
SHE
YOUNGER GENERATION. SHE IS IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN
THAT
SHE IS IN RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN THAT WHEN THEY DON'T SUIT HER,
SHE
THAT WHEN THEY DON'T SUIT HER, SHE DOESN'T LIKE THEM, SHE'S
GONE.
AND
GONE. AND ALSO THE MOVIES THAT SHE DID
WERE
AND ALSO THE MOVIES THAT SHE DID WERE VERY POWERFUL FOR WOMEN.
FRIRNINGS
WERE VERY POWERFUL FOR WOMEN. FRIRNINGS "SALINA" AND THE MOVIE
"ENOUGH"
FRIRNINGS "SALINA" AND THE MOVIE "ENOUGH" WHERE SHE GETS MARTIAL
TRAINING
"ENOUGH" WHERE SHE GETS MARTIAL TRAINING AND DEFENDSES HERSELF,
AS
TRAINING AND DEFENDSES HERSELF, AS YOU HAVE SAID EARLIER ON THE
PROGRAM
AS YOU HAVE SAID EARLIER ON THE PROGRAM IS WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO
DO
PROGRAM IS WHAT PEOPLE NEED TO DO SO I WONDER WHAT HAD YOUR
THOUGHTS
DO SO I WONDER WHAT HAD YOUR THOUGHTS WERE ON JENNIFER LOPEZ.
>>
THOUGHTS WERE ON JENNIFER LOPEZ. >> I HAVEN'T FOLLOWED HER CAREER
SINCE
>> I HAVEN'T FOLLOWED HER CAREER SINCE "SELENA," WHAT A PIECE OF
ACTING.
I
ACTING. I AM DISAPPOINT AT THE KIND OF
LOOK
I AM DISAPPOINT AT THE KIND OF LOOK THAT SHE PROJECTS NOW IS A
LITTLE
LOOK THAT SHE PROJECTS NOW IS A LITTLE BIT BLEACHED OUT.
I
LITTLE BIT BLEACHED OUT. I LIKE THAT VERY SORT OF
SUN-RIPENED
I LIKE THAT VERY SORT OF SUN-RIPENED LATIN LOOK THAT SHE
HAD
SUN-RIPENED LATIN LOOK THAT SHE HAD IN "SELENA."
OH,
HAD IN "SELENA." OH, HER EMOTIONAL RANGE IN THAT
FILM
OH, HER EMOTIONAL RANGE IN THAT FILM AS WELL AS HER DANCE MOVES
ARE
FILM AS WELL AS HER DANCE MOVES ARE SIMPLY SENSATIONAL.
I
ARE SIMPLY SENSATIONAL. I LOVED HER EARLY ALBUMS.
PART
I LOVED HER EARLY ALBUMS. PART OF THE PROBLEM NOW IS SHE
IS
PART OF THE PROBLEM NOW IS SHE IS BECOMING A DIVA.
WE
IS BECOMING A DIVA. WE DO NEEDS DIVAS AS CHER IS
APPROACHING
WE DO NEEDS DIVAS AS CHER IS APPROACHING THE END OF HER LONG
RUN
APPROACHING THE END OF HER LONG RUN AND SO ON, IT'S CERTAINLY
QUITE
RUN AND SO ON, IT'S CERTAINLY QUITE HILARIOUS THE WAY THAT
JENNIFER
QUITE HILARIOUS THE WAY THAT JENNIFER LOPEZ SEEMS TO BE IN
TOTAL
JENNIFER LOPEZ SEEMS TO BE IN TOTAL CONTROL OF MEN AND IS NOW
A
TOTAL CONTROL OF MEN AND IS NOW A SPOKESPERSON FOR SO MANY
PRODUCTS.
I
PRODUCTS. I THINK SHE MAY BE HITTING A
ROUGH
I THINK SHE MAY BE HITTING A ROUGH PATCH RIGHT NOW, THE SAME
ONE
ROUGH PATCH RIGHT NOW, THE SAME ONE THAT MAYBE MADONNA HIT, HER
CURRENT
ONE THAT MAYBE MADONNA HIT, HER CURRENT MOVIE IS GETTING
SLAMMED,
CURRENT MOVIE IS GETTING SLAMMED, THE NEW MOVIE WITH BEN
AFFLECK,
SLAMMED, THE NEW MOVIE WITH BEN AFFLECK, "GIGLI," WHATEVER IT
IS,
AFFLECK, "GIGLI," WHATEVER IT IS, I'M AFRAID IT'S GETTING SOME
OF
IS, I'M AFRAID IT'S GETTING SOME OF THE WORST REVIEWS OF, YOU
KNOW,
OF THE WORST REVIEWS OF, YOU KNOW, PROBABLY OF THE YEAR.
OH,
KNOW, PROBABLY OF THE YEAR. OH, NO, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT
MADONNA'S
OH, NO, WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT MADONNA'S "SWEPT AWAY" WAS
EQUALLY
MADONNA'S "SWEPT AWAY" WAS EQUALLY A TERRIBLE DISASTER.
I
EQUALLY A TERRIBLE DISASTER. I THINK THAT JENNIFER LOPEZ,
YES,
I THINK THAT JENNIFER LOPEZ, YES, SHE IS -- BEPROSECUTING THE
BRONX,
YES, SHE IS -- BEPROSECUTING THE BRONX, SHE DEFINITELY PROJECTS
THAT
BRONX, SHE DEFINITELY PROJECTS THAT STREET SMART FEMINISM THAT
I
THAT STREET SMART FEMINISM THAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT IN THE EARLY
1990'S.
THANK
1990'S. THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION.
>>
THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION. >> HERE IS A CARICATURE OF
CAMILLE
>> HERE IS A CARICATURE OF CAMILLE AS A DIVA FROM ONE OF
YOUR
CAMILLE AS A DIVA FROM ONE OF YOUR BOOKS.
QUESTION
YOUR BOOKS. QUESTION FROM AN E-MAIL.
WHAT
QUESTION FROM AN E-MAIL. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PRESIDENT
BUSH'S
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PRESIDENT BUSH'S RE-ELECTION CHANCES?
>>
BUSH'S RE-ELECTION CHANCES? >> WELL, AS DEMOCRAT, I THINK
DISAPPOINTEDLY,
>> WELL, AS DEMOCRAT, I THINK DISAPPOINTEDLY, I THINK BUSH'S
CHANCES
DISAPPOINTEDLY, I THINK BUSH'S CHANCES ARE VERY GOOD BECAUSE I
DON'T
CHANCES ARE VERY GOOD BECAUSE I DON'T THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS
ARE
DON'T THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHOW
THAT
ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN BE RELIED ON FOR
SECURITY
THAT THEY CAN BE RELIED ON FOR SECURITY AND MILITARY ISSUES.
AND
SECURITY AND MILITARY ISSUES. AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I
HAVE,
AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOR 10 YEARS
BEEN
HAVE, YOU KNOW, FOR 10 YEARS BEEN TALKING ABOUT, SINCE THE
BEGINNING
BEEN TALKING ABOUT, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF 19 90'S.
I
BEGINNING OF 19 90'S. I HAVE CRITICIZED THE DOMESTIC
PREOCCUPATION
I HAVE CRITICIZED THE DOMESTIC PREOCCUPATION OBSESSION OF THE
DEMOCRATIC
PREOCCUPATION OBSESSION OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND IN
PARTICULAR
DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND IN PARTICULAR OF THE WOMEN
POLITICIANS
PARTICULAR OF THE WOMEN POLITICIANS WHO WERE SO INVOLVED
IN
POLITICIANS WHO WERE SO INVOLVED IN CARE TAKING ISSUES THAT WHEN,
IN
IN CARE TAKING ISSUES THAT WHEN, IN FACT, TO BE
COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF,
IN FACT, TO BE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, AND I AM SO
COMMITTED
COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, AND I AM SO COMMITTED TO THE IDEA OF GETTING
A
COMMITTED TO THE IDEA OF GETTING A WOMAN INTO THE WHITE HOUSE, TO
BE
A WOMAN INTO THE WHITE HOUSE, TO BE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, YOU HAVE
TO
BE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF, YOU HAVE TO COMMAND THE ARMED FORCES.
AND
TO COMMAND THE ARMED FORCES. AND SO THE ONE THING WE SHOULD
BE
AND SO THE ONE THING WE SHOULD BE PREPARING, ALL AMBITIOUS
YOUNG
BE PREPARING, ALL AMBITIOUS YOUNG WOMEN FOR, FROM THE 1970'S
TOLE
YOUNG WOMEN FOR, FROM THE 1970'S TOLE THE 8S A TO THE 90'S IS
MILITARY
TOLE THE 8S A TO THE 90'S IS MILITARY HISTORY.
IT
MILITARY HISTORY. IT WAS COMPLETELY NEGLECTED IN
THIS
IT WAS COMPLETELY NEGLECTED IN THIS ANTI-WAR, ANTI-MILITARY,
ANTI-AMERICAN
THIS ANTI-WAR, ANTI-MILITARY, ANTI-AMERICAN BIAS OF THE ELITE
UNIVERSITIES.
RIGHT
UNIVERSITIES. RIGHT NOW, THEREFORE, THERE'S
THIS
RIGHT NOW, THEREFORE, THERE'S THIS VACUUM IN THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY.
WE
PARTY. WE HAVE KERRY, WHO DOES HAVE,
YOU
WE HAVE KERRY, WHO DOES HAVE, YOU KNOW, HIS EXPERIENCE OF THE
VEETSMEEZE
YOU KNOW, HIS EXPERIENCE OF THE VEETSMEEZE WAR, BUT THEN HE
BECAME
VEETSMEEZE WAR, BUT THEN HE BECAME A PROTESTER AFTER THAT.
EVEN
BECAME A PROTESTER AFTER THAT. EVEN DEMOCRATS HAVE TO SAY THAT
I
EVEN DEMOCRATS HAVE TO SAY THAT I WOULD, YOU KNOW, GIVE THE
SECURITY
I WOULD, YOU KNOW, GIVE THE SECURITY OF THE NATION OVER TO
--
SECURITY OF THE NATION OVER TO -- DESPITE ALL MY CRITICISMS AND
I
-- DESPITE ALL MY CRITICISMS AND I HAVE MANY OF THE REPUBLICAN
ADMINISTRATION,
I HAVE MANY OF THE REPUBLICAN ADMINISTRATION, OK, FOR
INCLUDING
ADMINISTRATION, OK, FOR INCLUDING THE WHAT I FEEL ARE
INTRUSIONS
INCLUDING THE WHAT I FEEL ARE INTRUSIONS INTO CIVIL LIBERTIES
BY
INTRUSIONS INTO CIVIL LIBERTIES BY JOHN ASHCROFT, I STILL FEEL
THAT
BY JOHN ASHCROFT, I STILL FEEL THAT THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO
SAY,
THAT THE VOTERS ARE GOING TO SAY, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO FEEL
SAFER
SAY, WHO ARE YOU GOING TO FEEL SAFER WITH IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN
THE
SAFER WITH IN THE WHITE HOUSE IN THE AGE OF TERRORISM, PRESIDENT
BUSH
THE AGE OF TERRORISM, PRESIDENT BUSH OR ONE OF THE 12 DWARFS?
>>
BUSH OR ONE OF THE 12 DWARFS? >> WHAT IS THE BEST THING THAT
GEORGE
>> WHAT IS THE BEST THING THAT GEORGE BUSH HAS DONE AS
PRESIDENT
GEORGE BUSH HAS DONE AS PRESIDENT IN YOUR OPINION?
>>
PRESIDENT IN YOUR OPINION? >> PRESIDENT BUSH HAS RESTORED
DIGNITY
>> PRESIDENT BUSH HAS RESTORED DIGNITY TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
OK?
WHICH
OK? WHICH WAS TREATED LIKE ANIMAL
HOUSE,
WHICH WAS TREATED LIKE ANIMAL HOUSE, LIKE A FRAT HOUSE BY THE
PRESIDENT
HOUSE, LIKE A FRAT HOUSE BY THE PRESIDENT I HELPED TO, YOU KNOW,
ELECTED,
PRESIDENT I HELPED TO, YOU KNOW, ELECTED, BY BILL CLINTON.
ALL
ELECTED, BY BILL CLINTON. ALL THE YOUNG TWERPS GOING IN
THERE
ALL THE YOUNG TWERPS GOING IN THERE AND BEHAVING -- I MEAN,
THE
THERE AND BEHAVING -- I MEAN, THE PICTURE ON THE FRONT OF THE
"NATIONAL
THE PICTURE ON THE FRONT OF THE "NATIONAL ENQUIRER" OF THE
CLINTON'S
"NATIONAL ENQUIRER" OF THE CLINTON'S FRIENDS BOUNCING WITH
THEIR
CLINTON'S FRIENDS BOUNCING WITH THEIR FEET ON THE LINCOLN BED,
IN
THEIR FEET ON THE LINCOLN BED, IN THE LINCOLN BEDROOM, A
DISGRACE.
OK?
THOSE
OK? THOSE PEOPLE DID NOT TAKE
SERIOUSLY,
THOSE PEOPLE DID NOT TAKE SERIOUSLY, OK, WHAT THE NATURE
OF
SERIOUSLY, OK, WHAT THE NATURE OF THE MISSION OF THE
PRESIDENCY.
AND
PRESIDENCY. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT'S ONE
THING.
I
THING. I LOVED THE WAY -- THE ONE THING
I
I LOVED THE WAY -- THE ONE THING I LOVE IS THE WAY PRESIDENT BUSH
DOESN'T
I LOVE IS THE WAY PRESIDENT BUSH DOESN'T CARE ABOUT SOCIALITES,
DOESN'T
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT SOCIALITES, DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE
BIG
DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE BIG WIGS OR THE HOLLYWOOD
CELEBRITIES.
THE
CELEBRITIES. THE CLINTONS WERE ALWAYS
SCHMOOZING
THE CLINTONS WERE ALWAYS SCHMOOZING WITH THE CELEBRITIES,
IN
SCHMOOZING WITH THE CELEBRITIES, IN A WAY THAT WAS SERVILE.
THEY
IN A WAY THAT WAS SERVILE. THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SO
SERVILE
THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN SO SERVILE TO THE HOLLYWOOD ELITE.
I
SERVILE TO THE HOLLYWOOD ELITE. I LOVE HOLLYWOOD.
I
I LOVE HOLLYWOOD. I THINK THEY SHOULD KNOW THEIR
PLACE
I THINK THEY SHOULD KNOW THEIR PLACE IN THE GREAT SCHEME OF
THINGS.
>>
THINGS. >> NEW YORK CITY.
CALLER:
>> NEW YORK CITY. CALLER: IT IS AN HONOR TO SPEAK
WITH
CALLER: IT IS AN HONOR TO SPEAK WITH YOU.
>>
WITH YOU. >> HI.
CALLER:
>> HI. CALLER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR
MASTER
CALLER: THANK YOU FOR YOUR MASTER WORKS.
I
MASTER WORKS. I MISS YOUR SALON COLUMNS, I
WISH
I MISS YOUR SALON COLUMNS, I WISH YOU'D BRING THEM BACK F.
YOU
WISH YOU'D BRING THEM BACK F. YOU COULD COMMENT ON TWO THINGS.
ONE,
YOU COULD COMMENT ON TWO THINGS. ONE, YOUR FOLLOW-UP TO "SEXUAL
PERSONA"
ONE, YOUR FOLLOW-UP TO "SEXUAL PERSONA" WILL BE OUT AND THE
KOBE
PERSONA" WILL BE OUT AND THE KOBE BRYANT CASE.
>>
KOBE BRYANT CASE. >> THE SECOND VOLUME, WHICH IS A
POPULAR
>> THE SECOND VOLUME, WHICH IS A POPULAR CULTURE, HAS BEEN
SITTING
POPULAR CULTURE, HAS BEEN SITTING IN A BOX SINCE 198 9
WHEN
SITTING IN A BOX SINCE 198 9 WHEN BOTH VOLUMES WERE DONE FOR
THE
WHEN BOTH VOLUMES WERE DONE FOR THE FIRST TIME.
IT
THE FIRST TIME. IT TOOK FOREVER TO GET THE FIRST
VOLUME
IT TOOK FOREVER TO GET THE FIRST VOLUME INTO PRINT.
AND
VOLUME INTO PRINT. AND NOW, CLEARLY, IF BOTH
VOLUMES
AND NOW, CLEARLY, IF BOTH VOLUMES CAME OUT IN 1990, THEY
COULDN'T
VOLUMES CAME OUT IN 1990, THEY COULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT.
YOU
COULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT. YOU NEED A WHEELBARROW.
THIS
YOU NEED A WHEELBARROW. THIS IS ALREADY A 900-PAGE BOOK,
VOLUME
THIS IS ALREADY A 900-PAGE BOOK, VOLUME ONE.
SO
VOLUME ONE. SO MUCH HAS HAPPENED THAT I NEED
TO
SO MUCH HAS HAPPENED THAT I NEED TO BE RETHINKING VOLUME II
BECAUSE
TO BE RETHINKING VOLUME II BECAUSE I NO LONGER AM QUITE THE
EVANGELIST
BECAUSE I NO LONGER AM QUITE THE EVANGELIST OF POPULAR CULTURE
THAT
EVANGELIST OF POPULAR CULTURE THAT I WAS BECAUSE OF THE
DECLINE
THAT I WAS BECAUSE OF THE DECLINE OF POPULARITY CULTURE.
MY
DECLINE OF POPULARITY CULTURE. MY VOLUME II, WHEN IT COMES OUT,
WILL
MY VOLUME II, WHEN IT COMES OUT, WILL HAVE A VERY NEGATIVE CAST
TO
WILL HAVE A VERY NEGATIVE CAST TO IT AND NOT WHAT I HOPE.
THE
TO IT AND NOT WHAT I HOPE. THE SECOND?
>>
THE SECOND? >> KOBE BROINL.
>>
>> KOBE BROINL. >> OH, KOBE BRYANT.
I'M
>> OH, KOBE BRYANT. I'M NOT SURE OF THE FACTS OF THE
CASE.
NO
CASE. NO ONE DOES KNOW.
BUT
NO ONE DOES KNOW. BUT IT HAS BEEN INTERESTING TO
SEE
BUT IT HAS BEEN INTERESTING TO SEE FROM THE VERY START THE
AUTOMATIC
SEE FROM THE VERY START THE AUTOMATIC BELIEF IN KOBE
BRYANT'S
AUTOMATIC BELIEF IN KOBE BRYANT'S VIEW OF IT, RATHER THAN
THIS
BRYANT'S VIEW OF IT, RATHER THAN THIS GIRL'S VIEW OF IT IN THE
MEDIA.
AND
MEDIA. AND I THOUGHT WHAT A REVERSAL OF
IT
AND I THOUGHT WHAT A REVERSAL OF IT WHEN WE HAD THESE DATE RAPE
STORIES
IT WHEN WE HAD THESE DATE RAPE STORIES AND I THOUGHT IT IS VERY
INTERESTING.
BUT,
INTERESTING. BUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT
THIS
BUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THIS GIRL HAS MENTAL PROBLEMS,
OK,
THIS GIRL HAS MENTAL PROBLEMS, OK, IS IRRELEVANT TO WHETHER OR
NOT
OK, IS IRRELEVANT TO WHETHER OR NOT AN ASSAULT OCCURRED IN THAT
ROOM.
WE
ROOM. WE MUST WAIT FOR THE FACTS OF
THE
WE MUST WAIT FOR THE FACTS OF THE CASE.
I
THE CASE. I WILL SAY THIS, THAT ANYONE WHO
HAS
I WILL SAY THIS, THAT ANYONE WHO HAS HAD STRANGER CASE, WHETHER
THEY'RE
HAS HAD STRANGER CASE, WHETHER THEY'RE STRAIGHT, LIKE KOBE
BRYANT
THEY'RE STRAIGHT, LIKE KOBE BRYANT OR GAY, MEN, OR WHATEVER.
ANYTIME
BRYANT OR GAY, MEN, OR WHATEVER. ANYTIME YOU PICK UP A STRANGER,
OK,
ANYTIME YOU PICK UP A STRANGER, OK, YOU ARE IMPORTING RIGHT NEXT
TO
OK, YOU ARE IMPORTING RIGHT NEXT TO YOUR BODY EVERY KIND OF
PSYCHODRAMA
TO YOUR BODY EVERY KIND OF PSYCHODRAMA IN THAT PERSON'S
HEADS.
YOU
HEADS. YOU DON'T KNOLL IF THEY ARE A
MURDERER
YOU DON'T KNOLL IF THEY ARE A MURDERER OR DERANGED PERSON.
KOBE
MURDERER OR DERANGED PERSON. KOBE BRYANT HAS MADE A SERIOUS
MISJUDGMENT,
KOBE BRYANT HAS MADE A SERIOUS MISJUDGMENT, THAT'S PRETTY
OBVIOUS
MISJUDGMENT, THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS NO MATTER WHAT HERE
BECAUSE
OBVIOUS NO MATTER WHAT HERE BECAUSE HIS COMMERCIAL
ENDORSEMENTS,
BECAUSE HIS COMMERCIAL ENDORSEMENTS, AT LEAST, ARE
CERTAINLY
ENDORSEMENTS, AT LEAST, ARE CERTAINLY IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY,
IF
CERTAINLY IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY, IF NOT ALREADY DEAD AS A DOOR
NAIL.
>>
NAIL. >> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT AYN
RAND'S
>> HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT AYN RAND'S WRITING.
>>
RAND'S WRITING. >> PEOPLE ASK ME ABOUT HER
WRITING.
I'VE
WRITING. I'VE NEVER READS HER IN COLLEGE
WHEN
I'VE NEVER READS HER IN COLLEGE WHEN -- HER GREAT PERIOD WAS
ACTUALLY
WHEN -- HER GREAT PERIOD WAS ACTUALLY THE 1950'S.
PEOPLE
ACTUALLY THE 1950'S. PEOPLE IN THE 1950'S WHO WERE
KIND
PEOPLE IN THE 1950'S WHO WERE KIND OF BOHEMIAN WERE IN TO AYN
RAND.
WHEN
RAND. WHEN I CAME ON TO THE SCENE IN
THE
WHEN I CAME ON TO THE SCENE IN THE 1990'S, SHE WAS BACK AGAIN
AND
THE 1990'S, SHE WAS BACK AGAIN AND PEOPLE BEGAN ASKING ME.
SO
AND PEOPLE BEGAN ASKING ME. SO THEN I LOOKED AT HER WORK AND
I
SO THEN I LOOKED AT HER WORK AND I WENT, OH, MY GOD, THERE ARE
PASSAGES
I WENT, OH, MY GOD, THERE ARE PASSAGES IN AYN RAND THAT SOUND
LIKE
PASSAGES IN AYN RAND THAT SOUND LIKE MY WRITING AND SOUNDED LIKE
"SEXUAL
LIKE MY WRITING AND SOUNDED LIKE "SEXUAL PORE SE NAH."
I
"SEXUAL PORE SE NAH." I WENT, THIS IS SO INTERESTING.
THE
I WENT, THIS IS SO INTERESTING. THE THING IS THAT HER INFLUENCES
WERE
THE THING IS THAT HER INFLUENCES WERE SIMILAR TO MINE.
SHE
WERE SIMILAR TO MINE. SHE WAS VERY INTERESTED IN THE
ROMANTIC
SHE WAS VERY INTERESTED IN THE ROMANTIC WRITERS.
SHE
ROMANTIC WRITERS. SHE WAS -- SHE LIKED -- I THINK
SHE
SHE WAS -- SHE LIKED -- I THINK SHE -- THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME
AND
SHE -- THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ME AND AYN RAND, SHE BELIEVES IN
THE
AND AYN RAND, SHE BELIEVES IN THE STRONG INDIVIDUAL.
BUT
THE STRONG INDIVIDUAL. BUT I BELIEVE IN GOVERNMENT.
I
BUT I BELIEVE IN GOVERNMENT. I DON'T JUST BELIEVE IN THE
INDIVIDUALIST,
I DON'T JUST BELIEVE IN THE INDIVIDUALIST, GOING OUT TO BE
ABLE
INDIVIDUALIST, GOING OUT TO BE ABLE TO BE ALL THINGS TO THE
WORLD.
I
WORLD. I DO BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT
HAS
I DO BELIEVE THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS A ROLE TO PROTECT THE POOR.
I'M
HAS A ROLE TO PROTECT THE POOR. I'M NOT JUST DARWINIAN SAYING
THE
I'M NOT JUST DARWINIAN SAYING THE POOR AND THE WEAK HAVE TO
FALL
THE POOR AND THE WEAK HAVE TO FALL ASIDE.
AND
FALL ASIDE. AND ANOTHER THING, AYN RAND IS A
RATIONALIST.
OK?
AND
OK? AND I
OK? AND I DON'T JUST BELIEVE IN THE
POWER
AND I DON'T JUST BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF A RATIONAL MIND.
I
POWER OF A RATIONAL MIND. I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF
DREAMING,
I BELIEVE IN THE POWER OF DREAMING, OF MAN NAPINGS, OF
ART.
I
ART. I BELIEVE IN THE IRRATIONAL.
THERE
I BELIEVE IN THE IRRATIONAL. THERE IS A KIND OF BIASED THAT
AYN
THERE IS A KIND OF BIASED THAT AYN RAND HAD AGAINST RELIGION.
I
AYN RAND HAD AGAINST RELIGION. I TAKE RELIGION VERY SERIOUSLY.
I
I TAKE RELIGION VERY SERIOUSLY. I THINK IT IS THE MOST FULLY
DEVELOPED
I THINK IT IS THE MOST FULLY DEVELOPED ALL OF COMPREHENSIVE
VIEWS
DEVELOPED ALL OF COMPREHENSIVE VIEWS OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HUMAN
BEINGS
VIEWS OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HUMAN BEINGS HAVE YET PROUD.
I
BEINGS HAVE YET PROUD. I DON'T HAVE THAT DISMISSIVE
QUALITY.
AYN
QUALITY. AYN RAND WAS VERY DISDAINFUL OF
PEOPLE
AYN RAND WAS VERY DISDAINFUL OF PEOPLE WHO WERE RELIGIOUS AND
FELT
PEOPLE WHO WERE RELIGIOUS AND FELT THEY WERE LIKE WEAKLINGS.
JUST
FELT THEY WERE LIKE WEAKLINGS. JUST GET OVER IT.
YOU
JUST GET OVER IT. YOU KNOW, CHILDREN'S STORIES,
THOSE
YOU KNOW, CHILDREN'S STORIES, THOSE FAIRY TALES.
I
THOSE FAIRY TALES. I THINK IT IS QUITE WRONG AND
THAT
I THINK IT IS QUITE WRONG AND THAT IS A LIMITED VIEW IN ITS
OWN
THAT IS A LIMITED VIEW IN ITS OWN WAY.
>>
OWN WAY. >> WE'LL TAKE TWO MORE CALLS AND
THEN
>> WE'LL TAKE TWO MORE CALLS AND THEN A SHORT BREAK.
>>
THEN A SHORT BREAK. >> OK.
CALLER:
>> OK. CALLER: YES.
I'M
CALLER: YES. I'M A BIG FAN OF YOURS FOR AT
LEAST
I'M A BIG FAN OF YOURS FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS.
>>
LEAST 10 YEARS. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I OWN THE D.V.D. "BASIC
INISTIC"
CALLER: I OWN THE D.V.D. "BASIC INISTIC" WITH YOUR COMMENTARY ON
IT,
INISTIC" WITH YOUR COMMENTARY ON IT, WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT.
>>
IT, WHICH I THINK IS BRILLIANT. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: I CONSIDER MYSELF A CON
SUR
CALLER: I CONSIDER MYSELF A CON SUR OF D.V.D. COMMENTARIES.
THE
SUR OF D.V.D. COMMENTARIES. THE BEST WAY TO WATCH THEM IS
WITH
THE BEST WAY TO WATCH THEM IS WITH THE SUBTITLES ON, MUCH MORE
COMPLEX.
BUT
COMPLEX. BUT I HAVE A QUESTION.
DO
BUT I HAVE A QUESTION. DO YOU HAVE ANY PLANS TO DO
MORE?
ALSO,
MORE? ALSO, IN "BASIC INSTINCT," I'VE
WANTED
ALSO, IN "BASIC INSTINCT," I'VE WANTED SHARON STONE MANY TIMES.
I
WANTED SHARON STONE MANY TIMES. I THINK HER PERFORMANCE,
ACTUALLY,
I THINK HER PERFORMANCE, ACTUALLY, HARKS BACK TO KIM
NOVAK.
I'D
NOVAK. I'D LIKE YOU TO COMMENT ON THAT
AS
I'D LIKE YOU TO COMMENT ON THAT AS WELL.
>>
AS WELL. >> YOU MENTIONED MY FAVORITE
FILMS.
SHE
FILMS. SHE IS A WITCH AND SO ON.
THAT
SHE IS A WITCH AND SO ON. THAT QUALITY THAT GARFIELD HAS
IN
THAT QUALITY THAT GARFIELD HAS IN VERTIGO, WHICH I THINK EVEN
HITCHCOCK
IN VERTIGO, WHICH I THINK EVEN HITCHCOCK THE DIRECTOR DIDN'T
APPRECIATE.
YES,
APPRECIATE. YES, I THINK SHARON STONE IS
PICKING
YES, I THINK SHARON STONE IS PICKING UP ALL THE GREAT
BLONDES.
SHARON
BLONDES. SHARON STONE'S PERFORMANCE, SHE
HAS
SHARON STONE'S PERFORMANCE, SHE HAS BEEN ON IF SCENE FOR LIKE 18
YEARS
HAS BEEN ON IF SCENE FOR LIKE 18 YEARS OR SOMETHING BEFORE SHE
MADE
YEARS OR SOMETHING BEFORE SHE MADE "BASIC INSTINCT" AND SHE
WORKED
MADE "BASIC INSTINCT" AND SHE WORKED HER WAY UP INTO THAT ROLE
AND
WORKED HER WAY UP INTO THAT ROLE AND YOU CAN FEEL DIETRICH, LA
NAH
AND YOU CAN FEEL DIETRICH, LA NAH TURNER, DEFINITELY KIM NOVAK
AND
NAH TURNER, DEFINITELY KIM NOVAK AND A LITTLE MADONNA.
SHARON
AND A LITTLE MADONNA. SHARON STONE DOES MADONNA BETTER
THAN
SHARON STONE DOES MADONNA BETTER THAN MADONNA HAS EVER BEEN ABLE
TO
THAN MADONNA HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO HERSELF ON THE SCREEN.
I
TO DO HERSELF ON THE SCREEN. I WOULD LOVE TO DO OTHER
COMMENTARIES
I WOULD LOVE TO DO OTHER COMMENTARIES ON D.V.D.S OF
CLASSIC
COMMENTARIES ON D.V.D.S OF CLASSIC FILMS LIKE THAT AND I
ALSO
CLASSIC FILMS LIKE THAT AND I ALSO HAVE DONE CAMEOS SATIRIZING
MYSELF,
ALSO HAVE DONE CAMEOS SATIRIZING MYSELF, "IT'S PAT," CHERYL
DONEYEAH'S
MYSELF, "IT'S PAT," CHERYL DONEYEAH'S FILM "WATERMELON
WOMAN."
I
WOMAN." I ENJOY VERY MUCH DOING TV WORK.
I'VE
I ENJOY VERY MUCH DOING TV WORK. I'VE DONE PROGRAMS IN ENGLAND AS
WELL.
I
WELL. I LOVED THE WHOLE PRODUCTION
QUALITY.
SO,
QUALITY. SO, AS A PROFESSOR, AS AN
ANALYST
SO, AS A PROFESSOR, AS AN ANALYST OF MEDIA, I'VE BEEN VERY
FORTUNATE
ANALYST OF MEDIA, I'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE IN THE LAST 13 YEARS
TO
FORTUNATE IN THE LAST 13 YEARS TO BE ABLE TO GET BEHIND THE
SCENES
TO BE ABLE TO GET BEHIND THE SCENES OF MEDIA AND SEE HOW
THINGS
SCENES OF MEDIA AND SEE HOW THINGS WORK BEHIND THE STAGE,
BEHIND
THINGS WORK BEHIND THE STAGE, BEHIND THE SCREEN.
>>
BEHIND THE SCREEN. >> DEERFIELD, ILLINOIS.
CALLER:
>> DEERFIELD, ILLINOIS. CALLER: HI.
I
CALLER: HI. I DO ENJOY YOUR WORK, PROFESSOR
PAGLIA.
>>
PAGLIA. >> THANK YOU.
CALL
>> THANK YOU. CALL ULL I HAVE TWO COMMENTS.
ONE
CALL ULL I HAVE TWO COMMENTS. ONE WAS YOU MADE AN EARLIER
COMMENT
ONE WAS YOU MADE AN EARLIER COMMENT ABOUT FURKS CO THAT YOU
MISSPOKE.
DERIDA
MISSPOKE. DERIDA IS ACTUALLY JEWISH.
IT
DERIDA IS ACTUALLY JEWISH. IT WAS DEMAN THE NAZI
SYMPATHIZER.
>>
SYMPATHIZER. >> THERE WERE TWO CASES.
CALLER:
>> THERE WERE TWO CASES. CALLER: WELL, DERIDAA IS AN
ALGERIAN,
CALLER: WELL, DERIDAA IS AN ALGERIAN, HE IS BORN JEWISH, AND
NEVER
ALGERIAN, HE IS BORN JEWISH, AND NEVER WAS A NAZI SYMPATHIZER.
THE
NEVER WAS A NAZI SYMPATHIZER. THE SECOND THING WAS I DO TAKE
ISSUE
THE SECOND THING WAS I DO TAKE ISSUE WITH SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS
ABOUT
ISSUE WITH SOME OF YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THEORY.
I'VE
ABOUT THEORY. I'VE BEEN IN GRADUATE SCHOOL AND
I'M
I'VE BEEN IN GRADUATE SCHOOL AND I'M NOW A TEACHER.
ONE
I'M NOW A TEACHER. ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THEORY
GAINED
ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THEORY GAINED STRENGTH IN THE ACADEMY,
I
GAINED STRENGTH IN THE ACADEMY, I BELIEVE, WAS A CONCERN FOR THE
ENLIGHTENMENT,
I BELIEVE, WAS A CONCERN FOR THE ENLIGHTENMENT, AND, YOU KNOW,
PEOPLE
ENLIGHTENMENT, AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THAT THESE
THEORISTS
PEOPLE DO NOT REALIZE THAT THESE THEORISTS ARE REALLY
COMMENTATOR,
THEORISTS ARE REALLY COMMENTATOR, JUST TRYING TO
DESCRIBE
COMMENTATOR, JUST TRYING TO DESCRIBE A POST-MODERN WORLD, A
POST-MODERN
DESCRIBE A POST-MODERN WORLD, A POST-MODERN CONDITION.
BUT
POST-MODERN CONDITION. BUT MANY OF THE PEOPLE
INFLUENCED
BUT MANY OF THE PEOPLE INFLUENCED BY POST-STRUCTURALISM
TAKE
INFLUENCED BY POST-STRUCTURALISM TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY AND I
WONDERED
TAKE IT VERY SERIOUSLY AND I WONDERED WHAT YOU THOUGH ABOUT
THAT.
>>
THAT. >> I THINK YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT.
EARLIER
>> I THINK YOU ARE QUITE RIGHT. EARLIER I DID -- THERE WAS A
QUOTATION
EARLIER I DID -- THERE WAS A QUOTATION FROM MY OWN "JUNK
BONDS
QUOTATION FROM MY OWN "JUNK BONDS INCORPORATED" THAT HE IS A
NAZI
BONDS INCORPORATED" THAT HE IS A NAZI SYMPATHIZER.
I
NAZI SYMPATHIZER. I APOLOGIZE.
THERE
I APOLOGIZE. THERE WAS A SCANDAL ABOUT DERIDA
IN
THERE WAS A SCANDAL ABOUT DERIDA IN 1988 AND IT WAS INVOLVING
NAZI
IN 1988 AND IT WAS INVOLVING NAZI SOMETHING.
AND
NAZI SOMETHING. AND I'M SORRY.
I'M
AND I'M SORRY. I'M NOT PULLING IT UP RIGHT NOW.
IT'S
I'M NOT PULLING IT UP RIGHT NOW. IT'S LIKE 15 YEARS NOW SINCE
THEN.
DERIDA'S
THEN. DERIDA'S STAR WAS ALREADY
SINKING
DERIDA'S STAR WAS ALREADY SINKING WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE
IN
SINKING WHEN I CAME ON THE SCENE IN 1991 BECAUSE OF THIS.
IT
IN 1991 BECAUSE OF THIS. IT WAS A SCANDAL IN ITS OWN
RITE.
I
RITE. I APOLOGIZE FOR MISSPEAKING
EARLIER.
IN
EARLIER. IN REGARDS TO THE OTHER MATTER,
FUCCO,
IN REGARDS TO THE OTHER MATTER, FUCCO, WAS IMPORTANT IN FRENCH
CULTURE,
FUCCO, WAS IMPORTANT IN FRENCH CULTURE, MANY MY VIEW, BECAUSE
THEY
CULTURE, MANY MY VIEW, BECAUSE THEY ARE CRITIQUING THE
CARTESIAN
THEY ARE CRITIQUING THE CARTESIAN AND RATIONALIST
HERITAGE
CARTESIAN AND RATIONALIST HERITAGE IN FRANCE.
YOU
HERITAGE IN FRANCE. YOU COULD NOT -- IN MY VIEW, IT
WAS
YOU COULD NOT -- IN MY VIEW, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGITIMATE TO
EXPORT
WAS ABSOLUTELY ILLEGITIMATE TO EXPORT THAT TO AMERICA, AND
PARTICULARLY
EXPORT THAT TO AMERICA, AND PARTICULARLY TO BE MAKING MANY
AMERICAN
PARTICULARLY TO BE MAKING MANY AMERICAN STUDENTS READ THOSE
TEXTS
AMERICAN STUDENTS READ THOSE TEXTS IN ENGLISH TRANSLATION.
ESPECIALLY
TEXTS IN ENGLISH TRANSLATION. ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT ARE
ALREADY
ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT ARE ALREADY IN FRENCH.
THE
ALREADY IN FRENCH. THE PROBLEMS THAT THE
POST-STRUCTURALISTS
THE PROBLEMS THAT THE POST-STRUCTURALISTS ARE
COMPLAINING
POST-STRUCTURALISTS ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT IN FRANCE
NEVER
COMPLAINING ABOUT IN FRANCE NEVER WERE THE CASE IN AMERICA.
WE
NEVER WERE THE CASE IN AMERICA. WE NEVER HAD, OK, THIS VAMPIRISH
BURDEN
WE NEVER HAD, OK, THIS VAMPIRISH BURDEN OF A FINE ART OR
TRADITION
BURDEN OF A FINE ART OR TRADITION IN AMERICA, FOR
HEAVEN'S
TRADITION IN AMERICA, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES, WE ARE A
FRONTIER
HEAVEN'S SAKES, WE ARE A FRONTIER CULTURE.
THERE
FRONTIER CULTURE. THERE IS NO FINER TRADITION
HERE.
WE'VE
HERE. WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO IMPLANT IT,
OK?
THIS
OK? THIS IS THE CULTURE THAT CREATED
HOLLYWOOD.
WE
HOLLYWOOD. WE ARE NOT RATIONALISTS.
IN
WE ARE NOT RATIONALISTS. IN THE FRENCH LANGUAGE, IT IS
EXTREMELY
IN THE FRENCH LANGUAGE, IT IS EXTREMELY LIMITED IN THE NUMBER
OF
EXTREMELY LIMITED IN THE NUMBER OF PERMISSIBLE WORDS THAT GO
BACK
OF PERMISSIBLE WORDS THAT GO BACK TO THE PLAYS OF RASSINE AND
SO
BACK TO THE PLAYS OF RASSINE AND SO ON.
THESE
SO ON. THESE ARGUMENTS -- IT WAS
MADNESS,
THESE ARGUMENTS -- IT WAS MADNESS, OK, ON THE PART OF
AMERICAN
MADNESS, OK, ON THE PART OF AMERICAN ACADEMICS TO BRING
THESE
AMERICAN ACADEMICS TO BRING THESE THINGS OVER.
THE
THESE THINGS OVER. THE PERSON WHO STARTED IT WAS
EDWARDS
THE PERSON WHO STARTED IT WAS EDWARDS SAIIDE, OF THE
PALESTINIAN
EDWARDS SAIIDE, OF THE PALESTINIAN LIBERATION
ORGANIZATION,
PALESTINIAN LIBERATION ORGANIZATION, AND -- BUT, YOU
KNOW,
ORGANIZATION, AND -- BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE WAS FIRST TALKING
ABOUT
KNOW, WHEN HE WAS FIRST TALKING ABOUT FUCCO, ALREADY SAW
IMITATIONS
ABOUT FUCCO, ALREADY SAW IMITATIONS IN FUCC ON HIS HIS
FIRST
IMITATIONS IN FUCC ON HIS HIS FIRST WRITINGS ON HIM.
ANY
FIRST WRITINGS ON HIM. ANY ACADEMIC WHO SAYS, OH, FUCCO
IS
ANY ACADEMIC WHO SAYS, OH, FUCCO IS SO LEARNED.
FUCCO
IS SO LEARNED. FUCCO IS NOT LEARNED.
ANYONE
FUCCO IS NOT LEARNED. ANYONE WHO DOES DOES NOT KNOW
WHAT
ANYONE WHO DOES DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TRUE LEARNING IS AND THEY
HAVE
WHAT TRUE LEARNING IS AND THEY HAVE NOT DONE THEIR HISTORY
LESSONS
HAVE NOT DONE THEIR HISTORY LESSONS THERE.
WAS
LESSONS THERE. WAS A PROBLEM IN AMERICAN
LITERARY
WAS A PROBLEM IN AMERICAN LITERARY CREDIT SCHISM.
THE
LITERARY CREDIT SCHISM. THE NEW CRITICISM HAD GOTTEN TOO
FORM
THE NEW CRITICISM HAD GOTTEN TOO FORM LIST AND TOO FOCUSED ON THE
INDIVIDUAL
FORM LIST AND TOO FOCUSED ON THE INDIVIDUAL TEXT APART FROM
BIOGRAPHY
INDIVIDUAL TEXT APART FROM BIOGRAPHY OR HISTORICAL CONTEXT.
OK?
IT
OK? IT WAS A REACTION AGAINST THE
BIBLIOGRAPHICAL
IT WAS A REACTION AGAINST THE BIBLIOGRAPHICAL EXCESSES OF AN
EARLIER
BIBLIOGRAPHICAL EXCESSES OF AN EARLIER GENERATION.
WHAT
EARLIER GENERATION. WHAT WAS NEEDED TO SUPPLEMENT
NEW
WHAT WAS NEEDED TO SUPPLEMENT NEW COUNTRY SCHISM BY BRINGING
IN
NEW COUNTRY SCHISM BY BRINGING IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT, HISTORY
AND
IN HISTORICAL CONTEXT, HISTORY AND PSYCHOLOGY, BECAUSE THE NEW
CRITICISM
AND PSYCHOLOGY, BECAUSE THE NEW CRITICISM WAS OFTEN ANTI-FRUDES.
I
CRITICISM WAS OFTEN ANTI-FRUDES. I THOUGHT IT WAS PART OF THAT
MOVEMENT,
I THOUGHT IT WAS PART OF THAT MOVEMENT, TO SUPPLEMENT IT, TO
BRING
MOVEMENT, TO SUPPLEMENT IT, TO BRING IT IN.
WHAT
BRING IT IN. WHAT THE POST-STRUCTURALISTS DID
WAS
WHAT THE POST-STRUCTURALISTS DID WAS TO AZE BAN DON THE WHOLE
THING
WAS TO AZE BAN DON THE WHOLE THING N. POETRY, THEY CAN'T
READS
THING N. POETRY, THEY CAN'T READS A POEM.
OK?
THIS
OK? THIS STYLE OF THEORY WORKS ONLY
ON
THIS STYLE OF THEORY WORKS ONLY ON THEIR TISM IT DOES NOT WORK
ON
ON THEIR TISM IT DOES NOT WORK ON POETRY.
EEK?
SO,
EEK? SO, WE HAVE A BUNCH OF
PROVINCIALS
SO, WE HAVE A BUNCH OF PROVINCIALS WHO ARE TEACHING AT
VERY
PROVINCIALS WHO ARE TEACHING AT VERY HIGH COST HUMANITIES TO OUR
UNDERGRADUATES
VERY HIGH COST HUMANITIES TO OUR UNDERGRADUATES AND THAT IS
DESERT
UNDERGRADUATES AND THAT IS DESERT LANDSCAPE, I KEEP ALMOST
REPEATING,
DESERT LANDSCAPE, I KEEP ALMOST REPEATING, IN THE ELITE SCHOOLS
IN
REPEATING, IN THE ELITE SCHOOLS IN THE HUMAN NOTICE, OK?
IT
IN THE HUMAN NOTICE, OK? IT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER
GENERATION,
IT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER GENERATION, OK, BEFORE WE ROOTS
OUT
GENERATION, OK, BEFORE WE ROOTS OUT ALL OF THIS THEORY THAT WAS
SUCH
OUT ALL OF THIS THEORY THAT WAS SUCH A DEAD END.
>>
SUCH A DEAD END. >> WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'RE
GOING
>> WHEN WE COME BACK, WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO ASK YOU SOME
QUESTIONS
GOING TO BE ABLE TO ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS THAT OUR E-MAILERS
HAVE
QUESTIONS THAT OUR E-MAILERS HAVE ASKED ABOUT CHOMSKY,
MICHAEL
HAVE ASKED ABOUT CHOMSKY, MICHAEL MOORE, JACQUELINE
KENNEDY
MICHAEL MOORE, JACQUELINE KENNEDY AND TAKE UP A FEW OF
YOUR
KENNEDY AND TAKE UP A FEW OF YOUR CRITICS.
PEOPLE
YOUR CRITICS. PEOPLE LIKE MOLL LITTLE IVANS
WHO
PEOPLE LIKE MOLL LITTLE IVANS WHO HAVE WRITTEN "THE SWEEPING
GENERATION
WHO HAVE WRITTEN "THE SWEEPING GENERATION IS PAGLIA'S
SIGNATURE.
IN
SIGNATURE. IN FACT, HER WORK CONSISTS OF
DAMN
IN FACT, HER WORK CONSISTS OF DAMN LITTLE QUETS" AND WE'LL
TAKE
DAMN LITTLE QUETS" AND WE'LL TAKE UP WHAT NAOMI WOLF AND WHAT
SHE
TAKE UP WHAT NAOMI WOLF AND WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT YOU.
>>
SHE SAID ABOUT YOU. >> WE'LL ALSO GET A LIST FROM
YOU,
>> WE'LL ALSO GET A LIST FROM YOU, PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW SOME
BOOKS
YOU, PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW SOME BOOKS THAT YOU MIGHT RECOMMEND
THEY
BOOKS THAT YOU MIGHT RECOMMEND THEY READS.
WE'LL
THEY READS. WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK IN JUST A
FEW
WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK IN JUST A FEW MINUTES.
ONE
FEW MINUTES. ONE HOUR LEFT WITH OUR GUEST,
CAMILLE
ONE HOUR LEFT WITH OUR GUEST, CAMILLE PAG LEAH.
BRYANT
I
BRYANT I THINK THAT THE FULL RANGE OF
AMERICAN
I THINK THAT THE FULL RANGE OF AMERICAN TYPES HAVE NOT BEEN
PORTRAYED.
THERE
PORTRAYED. THERE IS A KIND OF CONDESCENSION
IN
THERE IS A KIND OF CONDESCENSION IN THE PORTRAYAL OF WORKING
CLASS-TYPES
IN THE PORTRAYAL OF WORKING CLASS-TYPES IN GENERAL BY THE
FILM
CLASS-TYPES IN GENERAL BY THE FILM INDUSTRY, NOT IN THE
1930'S,
FILM INDUSTRY, NOT IN THE 1930'S, WHEN PEOPLE WERE CLOSER
TO
1930'S, WHEN PEOPLE WERE CLOSER TO THE WORKING-CLASS ROOTS.
BUT
TO THE WORKING-CLASS ROOTS. BUT WE HAVE A KIND OF LIBERAL
BUGEWA
BUT WE HAVE A KIND OF LIBERAL BUGEWA THAT RUNS THE SHOW BIZ
FROM
BUGEWA THAT RUNS THE SHOW BIZ FROM L.A., MANY OF THEM NOW ARE
REFUGEES
FROM L.A., MANY OF THEM NOW ARE REFUGEES FROM IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS
WHO
REFUGEES FROM IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS WHO WANT TO GO THERE, THESE
ARENAS
WHO WANT TO GO THERE, THESE ARENAS OF A KIND OF DESICCATED
WASP
ARENAS OF A KIND OF DESICCATED WASP SYSTEM, I THINK THAT IS
QUITE
WASP SYSTEM, I THINK THAT IS QUITE --
[LAUGHTER]
QUITE
[LAUGHTER] QUITE PAST.
[APPLAUSE]
SO,
[APPLAUSE] SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT AFRICAN
AMERICANS,
SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT AFRICAN AMERICANS, ALSO, HAVE GOOD
REASON
AMERICANS, ALSO, HAVE GOOD REASON TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE
SWAMPING
REASON TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE SWAMPING OF AMERICAN CULTURE BY
GANGSTER
SWAMPING OF AMERICAN CULTURE BY GANGSTER MOTIFS FROM THE
STREETS.
I
STREETS. I THINK THAT IT'S VERY PARALLEL,
ACTUALLY,
I THINK THAT IT'S VERY PARALLEL, ACTUALLY, THE KIND OF CRISIS
REPRESENTATION
ACTUALLY, THE KIND OF CRISIS REPRESENTATION THAT IS ENDURED,
CURRENTLY,
REPRESENTATION THAT IS ENDURED, CURRENTLY, BY AFRICAN AMERICANS
AND
CURRENTLY, BY AFRICAN AMERICANS AND WITH THE GANGSTA STYLE OF
HIP-HOP
AND WITH THE GANGSTA STYLE OF HIP-HOP AND ITALIAN-AMERICANS.
I
HIP-HOP AND ITALIAN-AMERICANS. I THINK PERHAPS AN ALLIANCE OR A
BRIDGE
I THINK PERHAPS AN ALLIANCE OR A BRIDGE COULD BE MADE WITH
GROUNDS
BRIDGE COULD BE MADE WITH GROUNDS IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN
COMMUNITY
GROUNDS IN THE AFRICAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY WHO ARE ALSO CONCERN
ABOUT
COMMUNITY WHO ARE ALSO CONCERN ABOUT THE PORTRAYALS OF AFRICAN
AMERICANS.
[APPLAUSE]
>>
[APPLAUSE] >> ONE OF THE BEST EXPRESSIONS
OF
>> ONE OF THE BEST EXPRESSIONS OF THE SORT OF EQUITY FEMINISM
THAT
OF THE SORT OF EQUITY FEMINISM THAT I BELIEVE IN WAS GIVEN BY
CLAIRE
THAT I BELIEVE IN WAS GIVEN BY CLAIRE BOOTH LUCE.
THIS
CLAIRE BOOTH LUCE. THIS EVENT, AS WE KNOW, IS
SPONSORED
THIS EVENT, AS WE KNOW, IS SPONSORED BY THE CLAIRE LOOTH
LUCE
SPONSORED BY THE CLAIRE LOOTH LUCE INSTITUTE.
SHE
LUCE INSTITUTE. SHE WAS FAIR-MINDED,
CLEAR-HEADED,
SHE WAS FAIR-MINDED, CLEAR-HEADED, US EARLEY
GORGEOUS
CLEAR-HEADED, US EARLEY GORGEOUS -- ALSO ELEGANT AND
GORGEOUS.
OF
GORGEOUS. OF COURSE, THAT IS NOT
IMPORTANT,
OF COURSE, THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT, BUT YOU CAN SEE FOR
YOURSELF.
HERE
YOURSELF. HERE IS HOW SHE SUMMED UP THE
MISSION
HERE IS HOW SHE SUMMED UP THE MISSION OF FEMINISM.
I
MISSION OF FEMINISM. I QUOTE AT LENGTH.
"IT
I QUOTE AT LENGTH. "IT IS TIME TO LEAVE THE
QUESTION
"IT IS TIME TO LEAVE THE QUESTION OF THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN
SOCIETY
QUESTION OF THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN SOCIETY UP TO MOTHER NATURE.
A
SOCIETY UP TO MOTHER NATURE. A DIFFICULT LADY TO FOOL.
YOU
A DIFFICULT LADY TO FOOL. YOU HAVE ONLY TO GIVE WOMEN THE
SAME
YOU HAVE ONLY TO GIVE WOMEN THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES AS MEN AND
YOU
SAME OPPORTUNITIES AS MEN AND YOU WILL SOON FIND OUT WHAT IT
IS
YOU WILL SOON FIND OUT WHAT IT IS NOT IN THEIR NATURE, WHAT IS
IN
IS NOT IN THEIR NATURE, WHAT IS IN THEIR NATURE AND WHAT IS NOT.
WHAT
IN THEIR NATURE AND WHAT IS NOT. WHAT IS IN NATURE TO DO, THEY
WILL
WHAT IS IN NATURE TO DO, THEY WILL DO AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO
STOP
WILL DO AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO STOP THEM, BUT YOU WILL ALSO
FIND
STOP THEM, BUT YOU WILL ALSO FIND AND SO WILL THEY THAT WHAT
IS
FIND AND SO WILL THEY THAT WHAT IS NOT IN THEIR NATURE, EVEN IF
THEY
IS NOT IN THEIR NATURE, EVEN IF THEY ARE GIVEN EVERY
OPPORTUNITY,
THEY ARE GIVEN EVERY OPPORTUNITY, THEY WILL NOT DO
AND
OPPORTUNITY, THEY WILL NOT DO AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO MAKE
THEM
AND YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO MAKE THEM DO IT."
NOW,
THEM DO IT." NOW, I LOVE THAT BRIEF, ELOQUENT
STATEMENT.
I
STATEMENT. I PUT IT IN AN ARTICLE SOME TIME
AGO
I PUT IT IN AN ARTICLE SOME TIME AGO AND A DISDENT FEMINIST AND
BRILLIANT
AGO AND A DISDENT FEMINIST AND BRILLIANT SCHOLAR AND CRITIC
CAMILLE
BRILLIANT SCHOLAR AND CRITIC CAMILLE PAGLIA SAW THIS PASSAGE
AND
CAMILLE PAGLIA SAW THIS PASSAGE AND WROTE ME SHE FOUND OUT
AWE-INSPIRING.
IT
AWE-INSPIRING. IT SUMS UP THE WHOLE THRUST OF
MY
IT SUMS UP THE WHOLE THRUST OF MY ADULT CAREER.
I
MY ADULT CAREER. I WAS SO HAPPY ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE
I WAS SO HAPPY ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT'S NOT EASY TO IMPRESS
CAMILLE
BECAUSE IT'S NOT EASY TO IMPRESS CAMILLE PAGLIA.
IT'S
CAMILLE PAGLIA. IT'S EASY TO BE IMPRESSED AND
DAZZLED
IT'S EASY TO BE IMPRESSED AND DAZZLED BY HER.
>>
DAZZLED BY HER. >> WE'RE BACK LIVE WITH CAMILLE
PAGLIA,
>> WE'RE BACK LIVE WITH CAMILLE PAGLIA, DR. CAMILLE PAGLIA.
THANK
PAGLIA, DR. CAMILLE PAGLIA. THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR
IN-DEPTH
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FOR IN-DEPTH THIS MONTH.
WE'RE
IN-DEPTH THIS MONTH. WE'RE GOING TO GET RIGHT BACK TO
SOME
WE'RE GOING TO GET RIGHT BACK TO SOME OF THE CRITICISM AND
QUESTIONS
SOME OF THE CRITICISM AND QUESTIONS THAT PEOPLE WANT TO
KNOW.
FIRST
KNOW. FIRST OF ALL, TO MOLLY IVINS.
THE
FIRST OF ALL, TO MOLLY IVINS. THE CRITICISM.
"SWEEPING
THE CRITICISM. "SWEEPING GENERALIZATION IS THE
SIGNATURE.
IN
SIGNATURE. IN FACT, THE WORK CONSISTS OF
DAMN
IN FACT, THE WORK CONSISTS OF DAMN LITTLE ELSE ".
>>
DAMN LITTLE ELSE ". >> I THINK MOLLY ONLY READ
THINGS
>> I THINK MOLLY ONLY READ THINGS I HAVE WRITTEN ON OP-ED
PAGES
THINGS I HAVE WRITTEN ON OP-ED PAGES OR 800 PAGES LONG.
SHE
PAGES OR 800 PAGES LONG. SHE CLEARLY DIDN'T READ "SEXUAL
PERSONAE,"
SHE CLEARLY DIDN'T READ "SEXUAL PERSONAE," 700 PAGES LONG, WHICH
IS
PERSONAE," 700 PAGES LONG, WHICH IS ENORMOUS DETAIL ABOUT THE
GREAT
IS ENORMOUS DETAIL ABOUT THE GREAT ART WORKS AND LITERARY
WORKS.
I
WORKS. I DON'T KNOW IF MOLLY IVINS
REGRETS
I DON'T KNOW IF MOLLY IVINS REGRETS THE VICIOUSNESS WHICH
SHE
REGRETS THE VICIOUSNESS WHICH SHE GREETED MY ARRIVAL ON THE
SCENE.
IT
SCENE. IT IS UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE I
THINK
IT IS UNFORTUNATE BECAUSE I THINK THE THAT TEXAS FEMINISTS
HAVE
THINK THE THAT TEXAS FEMINISTS HAVE STYLE.
I
HAVE STYLE. I LOVED ANN RICHARDS.
THAT
I LOVED ANN RICHARDS. THAT KIND OF TALKING, A STRAIGHT
FROM
THAT KIND OF TALKING, A STRAIGHT FROM THE HIP WAY OF TALKING IS
EXCELLENT.
I
EXCELLENT. I THINK THAT MOLLY IVINS SAID
THAT
I THINK THAT MOLLY IVINS SAID THAT IN THE EARLY 1990'S.
NOW
THAT IN THE EARLY 1990'S. NOW SHE LIKES TO PRETEND SHE
ONLY
NOW SHE LIKES TO PRETEND SHE ONLY ATTACKS PEOPLE IN POLITIC,
BUT
ONLY ATTACKS PEOPLE IN POLITIC, BUT NEVER CIVILIAN.
THERE
BUT NEVER CIVILIAN. THERE WAS NO CALL FOR HER TO
DISDAIN
THERE WAS NO CALL FOR HER TO DISDAIN ME IN THE WAY SHE HAD.
IT
DISDAIN ME IN THE WAY SHE HAD. IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE SHE
IS
IT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE BECAUSE SHE IS PART OF THE INNER FEMINIST
CIRCUMSTANCE
IS PART OF THE INNER FEMINIST CIRCUMSTANCE UNTIL THIS COUNTRY.
HERE
CIRCUMSTANCE UNTIL THIS COUNTRY. HERE IS A STRONG TALKING WOMAN
WHO
HERE IS A STRONG TALKING WOMAN WHO SHOULD HAVE LIKED -- SHOULD
HAVE
WHO SHOULD HAVE LIKED -- SHOULD HAVE LIKED AND APPRECIATED
ANOTHER
HAVE LIKED AND APPRECIATED ANOTHER STRONG TALKING WOMAN AND
COMPLETELY
ANOTHER STRONG TALKING WOMAN AND COMPLETELY MISSED IT.
COMPLETELY MISSED IT. COMPLETELY MISSED THE FACT THAT
SHE
COMPLETELY MISSED THE FACT THAT SHE AND I HAVE MORE IN COMMON
THAN
SHE AND I HAVE MORE IN COMMON THAN WE HAVE DIFFERENT.
>>
THAN WE HAVE DIFFERENT. >> NAOMI WOLF.
YOU
>> NAOMI WOLF. YOU ARE A NIPPLE PIERCED PERSON
PHYLLIS
YOU ARE A NIPPLE PIERCED PERSON PHYLLIS SLACKLEY.
>>
PHYLLIS SLACKLEY. >> I HAD A LONG CULTURE WAR IN
THE
>> I HAD A LONG CULTURE WAR IN THE EARLY 1990'S THAT WENT ON
FOR
THE EARLY 1990'S THAT WENT ON FOR YEAR.
AT
FOR YEAR. AT THIS POINT SHE IS MARRIED AND
A
AT THIS POINT SHE IS MARRIED AND A MOTHER AND HAS EVOLVED IN THE
THINKING
A MOTHER AND HAS EVOLVED IN THE THINKING ABOUT MANY THINGS.
I
THINKING ABOUT MANY THINGS. I CRITICIZED HER SEVERELY IN THE
EARLY
I CRITICIZED HER SEVERELY IN THE EARLY 1990'S BECAUSE HER BOOK I
FELT
EARLY 1990'S BECAUSE HER BOOK I FELT WAS AN ATROKES MESS SAYING
THAT
FELT WAS AN ATROKES MESS SAYING THAT BEAUTY WAS SOMETHING BEING
COOKED
THAT BEAUTY WAS SOMETHING BEING COOKED UP BY MEN IN SORT OF THE
CAPITALISM
COOKED UP BY MEN IN SORT OF THE CAPITALISM TO KEEP WOMENS'
SELF-ESTEEM
CAPITALISM TO KEEP WOMENS' SELF-ESTEEM LOW.
I
SELF-ESTEEM LOW. I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PERSONS
IN
I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PERSONS IN "SEXUAL PERSONAE" IN THE
LECTURES
IN "SEXUAL PERSONAE" IN THE LECTURES TO TALK ABOUT THE NEED
FOR
LECTURES TO TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR AESTHETICS AND ONE OF THE
THINGS
FOR AESTHETICS AND ONE OF THE THINGS SHE MARKS OF THE HUMAN
RACE
THINGS SHE MARKS OF THE HUMAN RACE IS A LOVE OF BEAUTY AND THE
CREATION
RACE IS A LOVE OF BEAUTY AND THE CREATION OF BEAUTIFUL ARTIFACTS
OR
CREATION OF BEAUTIFUL ARTIFACTS OR THE EMERGENCE OF THE
BEAUTIFUL
OR THE EMERGENCE OF THE BEAUTIFUL PERSON IS A SIGN OF
ADVANCING
BEAUTIFUL PERSON IS A SIGN OF ADVANCING CIVILIZATION.
AND
ADVANCING CIVILIZATION. AND THAT FEMINISM HAS IN TERMS
OF
AND THAT FEMINISM HAS IN TERMS OF REJECTING BEAUTY AS A MALE
CONSPIRACY
OF REJECTING BEAUTY AS A MALE CONSPIRACY HAD SET ITSELF
AGAINST
CONSPIRACY HAD SET ITSELF AGAINST CULTURE.
THE
AGAINST CULTURE. THE OTHER THING IS NAOMI WOLF
WAS
THE OTHER THING IS NAOMI WOLF WAS BLAMING ANOREXIA ON THE
MEDIA.
I
MEDIA. I SAID IT IS COMING MOSTLY FROM
THE
I SAID IT IS COMING MOSTLY FROM THE HIGHLY COMPETITIVE PRESSURE
COOKERS
THE HIGHLY COMPETITIVE PRESSURE COOKERS OF THE WHITE UPPER
MIDDLE
COOKERS OF THE WHITE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES THAT SEND
THE
MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES THAT SEND THE CHILDREN TO THE IVY LEAGUE.
AND
THE CHILDREN TO THE IVY LEAGUE. AND SHE SEES ANOREXIA IN THE
FELLOW
AND SHE SEES ANOREXIA IN THE FELLOW STUDENTS AT YALE OR SHE
WAS
FELLOW STUDENTS AT YALE OR SHE WAS A RHODES SCAR, SHE ROUB
LOOKING
WAS A RHODES SCAR, SHE ROUB LOOKING AT THE FAMILY SKULL
WHICH
LOOKING AT THE FAMILY SKULL WHICH YOU ARE THAT PRODUCED IT.
IT
WHICH YOU ARE THAT PRODUCED IT. IT IS NOT COMING FROM THE MEDIA.
THAT
IT IS NOT COMING FROM THE MEDIA. THAT IS ABSURD.
>>
THAT IS ABSURD. >> IS OBESITY THE SAME THING?
>>
>> IS OBESITY THE SAME THING? >> THE PROBLEM IS THAT -- THE
PROBLEM
>> THE PROBLEM IS THAT -- THE PROBLEM WITH THE -- THE MEDIA IS
PART
PROBLEM WITH THE -- THE MEDIA IS PART OF OUR CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT
INSO
PART OF OUR CULTURAL ENVIRONMENT INSO FAR AS IT PROJECTS IMAGES
OF
INSO FAR AS IT PROJECTS IMAGES OF WOMEN THAT ARE UNREALISTIC.
I
OF WOMEN THAT ARE UNREALISTIC. I MEAN OBVIOUS IN THE FASHION
MAGAZINES
I MEAN OBVIOUS IN THE FASHION MAGAZINES SO ON, OBVIOUSLY THERE
IS
MAGAZINES SO ON, OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A CULTURAL PROBLEM WE NEED TO
ADDRESS.
ANOREXIA
ADDRESS. ANOREXIA PER SE I WAS DENYING
WAS
ANOREXIA PER SE I WAS DENYING WAS CAUSE BID THE MEDIA.
THE
WAS CAUSE BID THE MEDIA. THE WORST THING IS AND NAOMI
WOLF
THE WORST THING IS AND NAOMI WOLF WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO
COMMENT
WOLF WAS ONE OF THE FIRST TO COMMENT ON THIS IN PUBLIC, TOO,
THE
COMMENT ON THIS IN PUBLIC, TOO, THE LENGTHENING AND THE ACTUAL
--
THE LENGTHENING AND THE ACTUAL -- TODAY WE SAY THROUGH PHOTO
SHOP
-- TODAY WE SAY THROUGH PHOTO SHOP TECHNIQUE T ELONGATIONS OF
IMAGES
SHOP TECHNIQUE T ELONGATIONS OF IMAGES AND OF ACTUAL LIVING
WOMEN
IMAGES AND OF ACTUAL LIVING WOMEN INCLUDING KNOWN
CELEBRITIES
WOMEN INCLUDING KNOWN CELEBRITIES IN MAGAZINES SO THAT
THERE
CELEBRITIES IN MAGAZINES SO THAT THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY HUMAN
PERSON
THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY HUMAN PERSON NOT ONLY COULD BE THAT
THIN
PERSON NOT ONLY COULD BE THAT THIN BUT ACTUALLY HAVE LEGS THAT
LONG
THIN BUT ACTUALLY HAVE LEGS THAT LONG AS THE ONES WE CUSTOMARILY
SEE.
I
SEE. I DO
SEE. I DO FEEL THAT THE CURRENT MEDIA
ENVIRONMENT
I DO FEEL THAT THE CURRENT MEDIA ENVIRONMENT AND ADVERTISING
ENVIRONMENT AND ADVERTISING ENVIRONMENT IS TOXIC FOR YOUNG
PEOPLE,
ENVIRONMENT IS TOXIC FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO
CHANGE
PEOPLE, BUT I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THE MEDIA.
NIBBLE
CHANGE THE MEDIA. NIBBLE FREE SPEECH.
THE
NIBBLE FREE SPEECH. THE MEDIA IS PROTECTED UNDER
FREE
THE MEDIA IS PROTECTED UNDER FREE SPEECH.
THE
FREE SPEECH. THE FEMINISTS WANT TO WADE INTO
THE
THE FEMINISTS WANT TO WADE INTO THE MEDIA AND CENSOR, CENSOR,
CENSOR.
I
CENSOR. I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT.
I
I DON'T BELIEVE IN THAT. I BELIEVE IN EDUCATION AND
SUPPLYING
I BELIEVE IN EDUCATION AND SUPPLYING IMAGES FROM HIGH ART.
I
SUPPLYING IMAGES FROM HIGH ART. I WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO SEE IN
GRADE
I WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO SEE IN GRADE SCHOOL THE GREAT VARIETY
OF
GRADE SCHOOL THE GREAT VARIETY OF FEMALE FORMS THAT HAVE BEEN
GLAMOURIZED
OF FEMALE FORMS THAT HAVE BEEN GLAMOURIZED THROUGH HISTORY.
IN
GLAMOURIZED THROUGH HISTORY. IN FACT, MOST CULTURES VALUE THE
OPULENT
IN FACT, MOST CULTURES VALUE THE OPULENT WOMAN.
THE
OPULENT WOMAN. THE HEAVY WOMAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN
SEEN
THE HEAVY WOMAN HAS ALWAYS BEEN SEEN AS FAR MORE DESIRABLE THAN
THIN,
SEEN AS FAR MORE DESIRABLE THAN THIN, STICK WOMEN THAN OUR
INDUSTRIAL,
THIN, STICK WOMEN THAN OUR INDUSTRIAL, URBAN AGE.
THE
INDUSTRIAL, URBAN AGE. THE ANSWER IS NOT TO CARRY ON
AGAINST
THE ANSWER IS NOT TO CARRY ON AGAINST THE MEDIA.
THE
AGAINST THE MEDIA. THE ANSWER IS TO HAVE EDUCATION.
NAOMI
THE ANSWER IS TO HAVE EDUCATION. NAOMI WOLF HAS NEVER SEEN
APPARENTLY
NAOMI WOLF HAS NEVER SEEN APPARENTLY THE RICHNESS OR THE
ACTUAL
APPARENTLY THE RICHNESS OR THE ACTUAL ART HISTORICAL TRADITION.
I
ACTUAL ART HISTORICAL TRADITION. I KNOW THAT SUSAN FALUSTI IS
ANOTHER
I KNOW THAT SUSAN FALUSTI IS ANOTHER PRODUCT OF THE IVY
LEAGUE.
I
LEAGUE. I THOUGHT HOW LIMITED THEIR
ACTUAL
I THOUGHT HOW LIMITED THEIR ACTUAL BACKGROUND WAS.
WHY
ACTUAL BACKGROUND WAS. WHY HAVE THEY NOT BEEN GIVEN A
TRULY
WHY HAVE THEY NOT BEEN GIVEN A TRULY HUMANISTIC?
WHEN
TRULY HUMANISTIC? WHEN I GO TO ENGLAND AND TALK TO
UNDERGRADUATES
WHEN I GO TO ENGLAND AND TALK TO UNDERGRADUATES AT OXFORD
CAMBRIDGE
UNDERGRADUATES AT OXFORD CAMBRIDGE WOMEN UNDERGRADUATE,
IT
CAMBRIDGE WOMEN UNDERGRADUATE, IT IS UNBELIEVABLE THE
DIFFERENCE
IT IS UNBELIEVABLE THE DIFFERENCE COMPARED TO OUR IVY
LEAGUE
DIFFERENCE COMPARED TO OUR IVY LEAGUE STUDENTS.
THESE
LEAGUE STUDENTS. THESE WOMEN ARE SOPHISTICATE AND
KNOW
THESE WOMEN ARE SOPHISTICATE AND KNOW HOW TO TALK AND HAVE A
NATURAL
KNOW HOW TO TALK AND HAVE A NATURAL RESPECT FOR THE ARTS.
NOT
NATURAL RESPECT FOR THE ARTS. NOT ONLY ALL THIS SORT OF TUNNEL
VISION
NOT ONLY ALL THIS SORT OF TUNNEL VISION FEMINIST WHO IS COME OUT
AND
VISION FEMINIST WHO IS COME OUT AND SEE THE ENTIRE WORLD IN
BLACK
AND SEE THE ENTIRE WORLD IN BLACK AND WHITE, THE IDEOLOGY OF
BLACK
BLACK AND WHITE, THE IDEOLOGY OF BLACK AND WHITE.
MEN,
BLACK AND WHITE. MEN, BAD.
WOMEN,
MEN, BAD. WOMEN, GOOD.
MEN
WOMEN, GOOD. MEN OPPRESSORS AND WOMEN
EVERYWHERE.
AND
EVERYWHERE. AND WE'RE NO LONGER IN ANY KIND
OF
AND WE'RE NO LONGER IN ANY KIND OF A WAR ABOUT IT WITH NAOMI
WOLF.
IT
WOLF. IT WAS A SLANG MATCH WE WERE
HAVING
IT WAS A SLANG MATCH WE WERE HAVING IN THE 1990'S.
>>
HAVING IN THE 1990'S. >> DO YOU NOT TEACH AT AN YSI
LEAGUE
>> DO YOU NOT TEACH AT AN YSI LEAGUE SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU CAN'T
OR
LEAGUE SCHOOL BECAUSE YOU CAN'T OR DON'T WANT TO?
>>
OR DON'T WANT TO? >> I AM INVITED TO SPEAK.
IT
>> I AM INVITED TO SPEAK. IT IS NEVER BY THE LITERARY
DEPARTMENT.
IT
DEPARTMENT. IT IS USUALLY BY HISTORY
DEPARTMENT,
IT IS USUALLY BY HISTORY DEPARTMENT, IT COULD BE CLASSIC,
ANTHROPOLOGY,
DEPARTMENT, IT COULD BE CLASSIC, ANTHROPOLOGY, SOMETHING LIKE
THAT,
ANTHROPOLOGY, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, OR MUCH OF MY WORK IS IN
THOSE
THAT, OR MUCH OF MY WORK IS IN THOSE AREAS.
IF
THOSE AREAS. IF ABROAD, I COULD LEAVE -- I
LEFT
IF ABROAD, I COULD LEAVE -- I LEFT IN ARTS COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT
IS
LEFT IN ARTS COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT IS MY NATURAL PLACE, THOUGH.
I'M
IS MY NATURAL PLACE, THOUGH. I'M HERE AND THIS IS SO
STIMULANT
I'M HERE AND THIS IS SO STIMULANT TO ME AND MY WORK TO
HAVE
STIMULANT TO ME AND MY WORK TO HAVE THE APPRENTICE ARTISTS IN
MY
HAVE THE APPRENTICE ARTISTS IN MY CLASSROOM LIKE THIS.
IT
MY CLASSROOM LIKE THIS. IT IS A CONSTANT.
I
IT IS A CONSTANT. I THANK GOD I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL
WITH
I THANK GOD I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE PREP SCHOOL GRADS ON
THE
WITH THE PREP SCHOOL GRADS ON THE IVY LEAGUE CAMPUS.
BUT
THE IVY LEAGUE CAMPUS. BUT IF I WANT TO LEAVE AMERICA,
I
BUT IF I WANT TO LEAVE AMERICA, I WOULD BE LECTURING AND
TEACHING
I WOULD BE LECTURING AND TEACHING AT ALL KINDS OF MAJOR
UNIVERSITIES
TEACHING AT ALL KINDS OF MAJOR UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE.
OUTSIDE
UNIVERSITIES WORLDWIDE. OUTSIDE AMERICA, I AM SEEN AS A
WRITER.
I
WRITER. I AM REALLY SEEN AS A WRITER.
HERE
I AM REALLY SEEN AS A WRITER. HERE THEY SAY HE IS THE THE
PERSON
HERE THEY SAY HE IS THE THE PERSON SEEN ON TV AND IF THEY
DON'T
PERSON SEEN ON TV AND IF THEY DON'T READ THE BOOK, BUT THEY
KNOW
DON'T READ THE BOOK, BUT THEY KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ME.
THEY
KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT ME. THEY MAY HAVE WRITTEN THOUSANDS
OF
THEY MAY HAVE WRITTEN THOUSANDS OF PAGES AND ALL THESE DECADES
OF
OF PAGES AND ALL THESE DECADES OF WORK AND SO ON.
BUT
OF WORK AND SO ON. BUT I DON'T WANT TO LEAVE
AMERICA.
I
AMERICA. I LOVE AMERICA.
MY
I LOVE AMERICA. MY FAMILY CAME TO AMERICA AND I
WANT
MY FAMILY CAME TO AMERICA AND I WANT TO MAKE OUR TRADITION
BETTER
WANT TO MAKE OUR TRADITION BETTER AND I THINK THE CORNER
HAS
BETTER AND I THINK THE CORNER HAS BEEN TURNED IN AMERICAN
ACADEMIA
HAS BEEN TURNED IN AMERICAN ACADEMIA AS ALL THE BIG, FANCY
NAMES
ACADEMIA AS ALL THE BIG, FANCY NAMES AND THEORY OF THE LAST 20
YEARS
NAMES AND THEORY OF THE LAST 20 YEARS ALL FALLING DOWN AND
PEOPLE
YEARS ALL FALLING DOWN AND PEOPLE ARE TOOKING BACK.
PEOPLE
PEOPLE ARE TOOKING BACK. PEOPLE CAN DISMISS, OH, NO,
BLOOM
PEOPLE CAN DISMISS, OH, NO, BLOOM DOESN'T SPEAK FOR
ACADEMIA.
BLOOM
ACADEMIA. BLOOM OBVIOUSLY HAS A VIBE NOW
OR
BLOOM OBVIOUSLY HAS A VIBE NOW OR A READING -- THE READING
PUBLIC
OR A READING -- THE READING PUBLIC HAS A VIBE WITH BLOOM AND
SEE
PUBLIC HAS A VIBE WITH BLOOM AND SEE HIM AS THIS APOSTLE AND
EVANGELIST
SEE HIM AS THIS APOSTLE AND EVANGELIST FOR HIGH ART AT A
TIME
EVANGELIST FOR HIGH ART AT A TIME WHEN THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT
FOR
TIME WHEN THE NATIONAL ENDOWMENT FOR THE ARTS CERTAINLY ALL THOSE
YEARS,
FOR THE ARTS CERTAINLY ALL THOSE YEARS, -- IT'S UNDER GOOD STEW
WARDSHIP
YEARS, -- IT'S UNDER GOOD STEW WARDSHIP NOW, BUT THEY DID
EVERYTHING
WARDSHIP NOW, BUT THEY DID EVERYTHING IN ITS POWER TO TRASH
THE
EVERYTHING IN ITS POWER TO TRASH THE IMAGE OF THE ARTS OR
ALIENATE
THE IMAGE OF THE ARTS OR ALIENATE IT FROM SOME MASS
AUDIENCE.
THE
AUDIENCE. THE ARTS NEED HELP, OK?
LITERATURE
THE ARTS NEED HELP, OK? LITERATURE AND ART AND
HUMANITIES
LITERATURE AND ART AND HUMANITIES NEED HELP IN THIS
COUNTRY.
EDUCATION
COUNTRY. EDUCATION HAS BECOME ALL ABOUT
SENTIMENT.
YOUNG
SENTIMENT. YOUNG PEOPLE ARE TUTORED IN
SENTIMENT.
YOU
SENTIMENT. YOU HAVE TO BE TOLERANT, BE NICE
NOW,
YOU HAVE TO BE TOLERANT, BE NICE NOW, DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD TO
SO
NOW, DON'T SAY ANYTHING BAD TO SO AND SO.
LITTLE
SO AND SO. LITTLE JOHNNY WAS CRYING AFTER
YOU
LITTLE JOHNNY WAS CRYING AFTER YOU CALLED HIM THIS OR THAT, A
WUSS,
YOU CALLED HIM THIS OR THAT, A WUSS, OR WHAT IS THAT?
DAY
WUSS, OR WHAT IS THAT? DAY CARE CENTER STUFF.
NO.
I
NO. I BELIEVE ARTS SHOULD BE
ABSOLUTELY
I BELIEVE ARTS SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY PRESENTED FROM THE
START.
IT'S
START. IT'S NOT ARTS WHERE PEOPLE GIVE
THEM
IT'S NOT ARTS WHERE PEOPLE GIVE THEM FINGER PAINTS TO DO, BUT I
AM
THEM FINGER PAINTS TO DO, BUT I AM TALKING ABOUT HISTORY AND ART
AND
AM TALKING ABOUT HISTORY AND ART AND EVERYTHING IS IN CHRONOLOGY
AND
AND EVERYTHING IS IN CHRONOLOGY AND GIVE THEM A TIME FRAME.
WHEN
AND GIVE THEM A TIME FRAME. WHEN I PUT A TIME LINE ON THE
BOARD,
WHEN I PUT A TIME LINE ON THE BOARD, THE KIDS LOOK LIKE THEY
HAVE
BOARD, THE KIDS LOOK LIKE THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN A TIME LINE.
THEY
HAVE NEVER SEEN A TIME LINE. THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF ANYTHING.
THEY
THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF ANYTHING. THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO DIAGRAM A
SENTENCE.
ALL
SENTENCE. ALL THE STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION
WAS
ALL THE STRUCTURE OF EDUCATION WAS GIVEN TO MY PARENTS.
IN
WAS GIVEN TO MY PARENTS. IN UPSTATE NEW YORK AND IT'S
GONE
IN UPSTATE NEW YORK AND IT'S GONE NOW AND IT'S A SCANDAL
AGAIN.
>>
AGAIN. >> SALT LAKE CITY, YOU ARE UP IN
THE
>> SALT LAKE CITY, YOU ARE UP IN THE FIRST SEGMENT.
>>
THE FIRST SEGMENT. >> MY, CAMILLE.
I
>> MY, CAMILLE. I AM A BIG FAN.
>>
I AM A BIG FAN. >> THANKS.
>>
>> THANKS. >> ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE
NOTICED
>> ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE NOTICED IN YOUR WORK WHO HAS
WRITTEN
NOTICED IN YOUR WORK WHO HAS WRITTEN AND SOLD COMEDY MYSELF
IS
WRITTEN AND SOLD COMEDY MYSELF IS A HIGHLY EVOLVED SENSE OF
HUMOR.
A
HUMOR. A SENSE OF HUMOR AND A SENSE OF
DRY
A SENSE OF HUMOR AND A SENSE OF DRY ACADEMIC WORLD.
>>
DRY ACADEMIC WORLD. >> THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.
A
>> THANKS FOR THE QUESTION. A GREAT QUESTION.
>>
A GREAT QUESTION. >> THAT'S WHY PEOPLE DON'T TAKE
ME
>> THAT'S WHY PEOPLE DON'T TAKE ME SERIOUSLY FOR A LONG TIME.
HOW
ME SERIOUSLY FOR A LONG TIME. HOW CAN A DEEP PERSON BE FUNNY?
FOR
HOW CAN A DEEP PERSON BE FUNNY? FOR THEM, COMEDY DOESN'T GO AND
--
FOR THEM, COMEDY DOESN'T GO AND -- FOR ALL THOSE YEAR, SHE WOULD
POSE
-- FOR ALL THOSE YEAR, SHE WOULD POSE ADDS A VERY DEEPLY SERIOUS
PERSON.
AND
PERSON. AND LIKE A BIG BELLY LAUGH, AND
THE
AND LIKE A BIG BELLY LAUGH, AND THE INTELLECTUAL AND THE HEADY,
AUSTERE,
THE INTELLECTUAL AND THE HEADY, AUSTERE, HYPERCRITICAL
INTELLECTUAL.
I
INTELLECTUAL. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT.
I
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. I BELIEVE LIKE THE HINDU GURUS,
OK,
I BELIEVE LIKE THE HINDU GURUS, OK, ARE ACTUALLY THE AGING
MASTERS
OK, ARE ACTUALLY THE AGING MASTERS AND SAGES ARE VERY
FUNNY.
THEY
FUNNY. THEY ARE FUNNY, PRANKISH, AND
ZEN
THEY ARE FUNNY, PRANKISH, AND ZEN MASTERS ARE KNOWN TO BE
PRANKISH
ZEN MASTERS ARE KNOWN TO BE PRANKISH AND SO ON.
TO
PRANKISH AND SO ON. TO ME COMEDY IS AS A SYMPTOM OF
A
TO ME COMEDY IS AS A SYMPTOM OF A BALANCED PERSPECTIVE ON LIFE.
PEOPLE
A BALANCED PERSPECTIVE ON LIFE. PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING AROUND LIKE
GLOOMY
PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING AROUND LIKE GLOOMY GUSES, LIKE IN A SONTAG
INTELLECTUAL
GLOOMY GUSES, LIKE IN A SONTAG INTELLECTUAL STYLE, THESE PEOPLE
ARE
INTELLECTUAL STYLE, THESE PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING FROM SOMETHING
COMING
ARE SUFFERING FROM SOMETHING COMING FROM THE CHILDHOOD AND
HAS
COMING FROM THE CHILDHOOD AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE
PROPER
HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PROPER RESPONSE TO LIFE.
COMING
PROPER RESPONSE TO LIFE. COMING FROM A WORKING CLASS
BACKGROUND.
IT'S
BACKGROUND. IT'S LIKE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE
ACTUALLY
IT'S LIKE WORKING CLASS PEOPLE ACTUALLY HAVE MUCH MORE OF A
EVOLVED
ACTUALLY HAVE MUCH MORE OF A EVOLVED SENSE OF HUMOR.
THEY
EVOLVED SENSE OF HUMOR. THEY LAUGH MUCH MORE HARDLY THAN
MIDDLE
THEY LAUGH MUCH MORE HARDLY THAN MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE DO.
THERE
MIDDLE CLASS PEOPLE DO. THERE IS A LOSS OF PHYSICAL AND
MENTAL
THERE IS A LOSS OF PHYSICAL AND MENTAL ENERGY, I THINK, IN THE
TRANSITION
MENTAL ENERGY, I THINK, IN THE TRANSITION FROM THE WORKING
CLASS
TRANSITION FROM THE WORKING CLASS TO THE MIDDLE CLASS.
I
CLASS TO THE MIDDLE CLASS. I OBSERVE THIS HAPPEN IN MY OWN
FAMILY,
I OBSERVE THIS HAPPEN IN MY OWN FAMILY, THAT IS, AS WE MOVED AND
NEXT
FAMILY, THAT IS, AS WE MOVED AND NEXT GENERATION MOVED INTO THE
PROFESSIONS
NEXT GENERATION MOVED INTO THE PROFESSIONS OF TEACHING AND LAW
AND
PROFESSIONS OF TEACHING AND LAW AND SO ON, THERE WAS A KIND OF
SOBRIETY
AND SO ON, THERE WAS A KIND OF SOBRIETY AND KIND OF A NORTHERN
EUROPEAN
SOBRIETY AND KIND OF A NORTHERN EUROPEAN SOBRIETY EXPECTED OF
YOU.
I
YOU. I AM
YOU. I AM VERY PRANKISH IN PERSON.
IN
I AM VERY PRANKISH IN PERSON. IN FACT, IN COLLEGE, I WAS ON
PROBATION
IN FACT, IN COLLEGE, I WAS ON PROBATION FOR PRANKS.
>>
PROBATION FOR PRANKS. >> FOR PRANKS?
>>
>> FOR PRANKS? >> SOMETHING LIKE -- I MADE A
LIST.
LIKE
LIST. LIKE 39 PRANKS.
THEY
LIKE 39 PRANKS. THEY PUT ME ON PROBATION.
I
THEY PUT ME ON PROBATION. I LEFT TO MAKE ENVIRONMENTS AND
I
I LEFT TO MAKE ENVIRONMENTS AND I LOVED TO TERRORIZE THE
AUTHORITY,
I LOVED TO TERRORIZE THE AUTHORITY, LIKE THE STRAITTORS
OF
AUTHORITY, LIKE THE STRAITTORS OF THE DORMITORIES.
THAT
OF THE DORMITORIES. THAT WAS ONE THING I DID IS
STAGE
THAT WAS ONE THING I DID IS STAGE A MURDER SCENE.
ONE
STAGE A MURDER SCENE. ONE OF THE DORM CAME BACK AFTER
A
ONE OF THE DORM CAME BACK AFTER A BEER BLAST AND I HAD STAGED
RED
A BEER BLAST AND I HAD STAGED RED COUGH SYRUP FOR BLOOD AND
THE
RED COUGH SYRUP FOR BLOOD AND THE ENVELOPE OPENED UP FOR THE
KNIFE.
AND
KNIFE. AND THEY SCREAMED.
AND
AND THEY SCREAMED. AND ANOTHER TIME I TOOK THE
CLOCKS
AND ANOTHER TIME I TOOK THE CLOCKS AND FOUND THE CLOCKS
COULD
CLOCKS AND FOUND THE CLOCKS COULD COME OFF THE WALL IN THE
DORMITORY,
COULD COME OFF THE WALL IN THE DORMITORY, THE LARGE CLOCKS.
IF
DORMITORY, THE LARGE CLOCKS. IF I WENT UP ON A CHAIR, I TOOK
THEM
IF I WENT UP ON A CHAIR, I TOOK THEM DOWN AND PUT TWO OF THEM
INTO
THEM DOWN AND PUT TWO OF THEM INTO THE TWIN BEDS OF THE
COUNSELORS
INTO THE TWIN BEDS OF THE COUNSELORS IN THE DORMITORY.
WHEN
COUNSELORS IN THE DORMITORY. WHEN THEY CAME BACK FROM THE
BEER
WHEN THEY CAME BACK FROM THE BEER BLAST, I LOVED IT, THEY
CAME
BEER BLAST, I LOVED IT, THEY CAME BACK AND THE CLOCK FACES
WERE
CAME BACK AND THE CLOCK FACES WERE TUCKED UP AROUND THE SHEETS
AROUND
WERE TUCKED UP AROUND THE SHEETS AROUND THE FACE IN BED.
THEY
AROUND THE FACE IN BED. THEY CAME IN AND SCREAMED.
AND
THEY CAME IN AND SCREAMED. AND FINALLY, THEY PUT ME ON
PROBATION
AND FINALLY, THEY PUT ME ON PROBATION WITH SHAVING CREAM AND
GOING
PROBATION WITH SHAVING CREAM AND GOING BACK FROM THE SHOWER AND
PUT
GOING BACK FROM THE SHOWER AND PUT A BIG QUESTION MARK IN
SHAVING
PUT A BIG QUESTION MARK IN SHAVING CREAM ON THE RESIDENT
ADVISOR'S
SHAVING CREAM ON THE RESIDENT ADVISOR'S DOOR, A QUESTION OF
AUTHORITY.
IT
AUTHORITY. IT REMOVED THE VARNISH FROM THE
DOOR,
IT REMOVED THE VARNISH FROM THE DOOR, SO IT COST.
THAT
DOOR, SO IT COST. THAT WAS IT.
I
THAT WAS IT. I WAS ON PROBATION.
IT
I WAS ON PROBATION. IT WAS WHEN WE WERE HIPPIES AND
GOING
IT WAS WHEN WE WERE HIPPIES AND GOING THROUGH THE STOCK EXCHANGE
AND
GOING THROUGH THE STOCK EXCHANGE AND THROWING DOLLAR BILLS OFF
THE
AND THROWING DOLLAR BILLS OFF THE BALCONY GOING "SUE ME, SUE
ME."
>>
ME." >> WHAT POLITICIAN HAS THE BEST
SENSE
>> WHAT POLITICIAN HAS THE BEST SENSE OF HUMOR?
>>
SENSE OF HUMOR? >> TODAY?
>>
>> TODAY? >> YES.
>>
>> YES. >> WHO HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR AT
ALL
>> WHO HAS A SENSE OF HUMOR AT ALL IN AMERICA TODAY?
>>
ALL IN AMERICA TODAY? >> GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO THINK
ABOUT
>> GIVE YOU A CHANCE TO THINK ABOUT IT.
CHARLESTON,
ABOUT IT. CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, YOU
ARE
CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, YOU ARE NEXT.
>>
ARE NEXT. >> CAMILLE, YOU'RE HOT.
YOU'RE
>> CAMILLE, YOU'RE HOT. YOU'RE CUTE.
I
YOU'RE CUTE. I LOVE YOU.
>>
I LOVE YOU. >> THANKS.
>>
>> THANKS. >> LISTEN, I HAVE A QUESTION.
I
>> LISTEN, I HAVE A QUESTION. I SAW A STATISTIC THAT WAS
STAGGERING
I SAW A STATISTIC THAT WAS STAGGERING THAT 4% OF THE
AMERICAN
STAGGERING THAT 4% OF THE AMERICAN POPULATION BEING BLACK
MALES
AMERICAN POPULATION BEING BLACK MALES BETWEEN 15 AND 40 YEARS
OLD
MALES BETWEEN 15 AND 40 YEARS OLD COMMIT ABOUT 60% OF THE
CRIME
OLD COMMIT ABOUT 60% OF THE CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND
CRIME IN THE UNITED STATES. AND THIS -- NATURALLY THIS
FOLLOWS
AND THIS -- NATURALLY THIS FOLLOWS THAT RACIAL PROFILING
AND
FOLLOWS THAT RACIAL PROFILING AND POLICEMEN WHO SEE THESE KIND
OF
AND POLICEMEN WHO SEE THESE KIND OF STATISTICS AND DEAL WITH IT
ON
OF STATISTICS AND DEAL WITH IT ON A DAILY BASIS ARE PRONE TO
LOOK
ON A DAILY BASIS ARE PRONE TO LOOK TOWARDS BLACK MALE WHO IS
CREATE
LOOK TOWARDS BLACK MALE WHO IS CREATE A LOT OF CRIME.
AFTER
PEOPLE INTERVIEWED, BLACKS PARTICULARLY, WHO -- AND I PAY
CLOSER
PARTICULARLY, WHO -- AND I PAY CLOSER ATTENTION TO THIS -- AND
THEY
CLOSER ATTENTION TO THIS -- AND THEY WERE ASKED SINCE
YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE OF ARAB ORIGINS OR LOOKS?
BEING
OF ARAB ORIGINS OR LOOKS? BEING CLOSELY SCRUTINIZED,
RACIALLY
BEING CLOSELY SCRUTINIZED, RACIALLY PROFILED?
AND
RACIALLY PROFILED? AND THEY HAD NO PROBLEM WITH IT
WHATSOEVER.
AND
WHATSOEVER. AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS A LARGER
HYPOCRISY
AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS A LARGER HYPOCRISY AND I WONDERED HOW YOU
FELT
HYPOCRISY AND I WONDERED HOW YOU FELT ABOUT RACIAL PROFILING AND
THOSE
FELT ABOUT RACIAL PROFILING AND THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.
>>
THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. >> I THINK IT IS INEVITABLE IF
POLICE
>> I THINK IT IS INEVITABLE IF POLICE ARE IN AN INNER CITY
ENVIRONMENT
POLICE ARE IN AN INNER CITY ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE IS HIGH
CONCENTRATION
ENVIRONMENT WHERE THERE IS HIGH CONCENTRATION OF
AFRICAN-AMERICANS,
CONCENTRATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, IT WILL SEEM
LIKE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, IT WILL SEEM LIKE THEY ARE RACIAL PROFILING.
I
LIKE THEY ARE RACIAL PROFILING. I HAPPEN TO WITNESS VERY
UNSEEMLY
I HAPPEN TO WITNESS VERY UNSEEMLY SCENES IN THE 1980'S
WHEN
UNSEEMLY SCENES IN THE 1980'S WHEN I WOULD BE TRAVELING BY CAR
ON
WHEN I WOULD BE TRAVELING BY CAR ON THE NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE FROM
PHILADELPHIA
ON THE NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE FROM PHILADELPHIA TO NEW YORK.
AND
PHILADELPHIA TO NEW YORK. AND I SAW THAT THE TROOPERS OR
MAYBE
AND I SAW THAT THE TROOPERS OR MAYBE THEY WERE JUST LOCAL
POLICE
MAYBE THEY WERE JUST LOCAL POLICE HAD OUT OF THE CAR
CONSTANTLY
POLICE HAD OUT OF THE CAR CONSTANTLY IT SEEMED WHOLE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN
CONSTANTLY IT SEEMED WHOLE AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES WHO
WERE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES WHO WERE STANDING UNDER VERY
DANGEROUS
WERE STANDING UNDER VERY DANGEROUS CONDITIONS ALONG THE
SIDE
DANGEROUS CONDITIONS ALONG THE SIDE OF THE ROAD IN A SITUATION
THAT
SIDE OF THE ROAD IN A SITUATION THAT I THOUGHT REALLY WAS NOT --
WAS
THAT I THOUGHT REALLY WAS NOT -- WAS UN-AMERICAN.
IF
WAS UN-AMERICAN. IF INDEED THE TROOPERS OR LOCAL
POLICE
IF INDEED THE TROOPERS OR LOCAL POLICE FELT THERE WAS REASON TO
SEARCH
POLICE FELT THERE WAS REASON TO SEARCH THE CAR OF THE PARTICULAR
AFRICAN-AMERICANS,
SEARCH THE CAR OF THE PARTICULAR AFRICAN-AMERICANS, I BELIEVE
THAT
AFRICAN-AMERICANS, I BELIEVE THAT THE CARS SHOULD HAVE BEEN
TAKEN
THAT THE CARS SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN TO A REST STOP OR TO --
AND
TAKEN TO A REST STOP OR TO -- AND IT SEEMED THERE WAS A
DELIBERATE
AND IT SEEMED THERE WAS A DELIBERATE EFFORT TO HUMILIATE
AND
DELIBERATE EFFORT TO HUMILIATE AND TO INTIMIDATE OTHER DRIVERS.
AND
AND TO INTIMIDATE OTHER DRIVERS. AND OF COURSE T REASON THAT WAS
HAPPENING
AND OF COURSE T REASON THAT WAS HAPPENING IS THERE WAS SUCH A
DRUG
HAPPENING IS THERE WAS SUCH A DRUG RUN GOING ON FROM FLORIDA
ALL
DRUG RUN GOING ON FROM FLORIDA ALL THE WAY TO NEW YORK CITY, SO
NEW
ALL THE WAY TO NEW YORK CITY, SO NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE WAS ALMOST
LIKE
NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE WAS ALMOST LIKE AN INTERVENTION BECAUSE IT
IS
LIKE AN INTERVENTION BECAUSE IT IS KIND OF LIKE AN ALLEY.
I
IS KIND OF LIKE AN ALLEY. I THINK THE QUESTIONS ABOUT
RACIAL
I THINK THE QUESTIONS ABOUT RACIAL PROFILING ARE LEGITIMATE
ONES.
MANY
ONES. MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS DRIVING
CARS
MANY AFRICAN-AMERICANS DRIVING CARS FEEL THEY ARE THE SUBJECT
OF
CARS FEEL THEY ARE THE SUBJECT OF EXCESSIVE SCRUTINY.
I
OF EXCESSIVE SCRUTINY. I THINK THEY ARE PROBABLY RIGHT.
YES,
I THINK THEY ARE PROBABLY RIGHT. YES, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK WHERE
IT'S
YES, OBVIOUSLY, I THINK WHERE IT'S GONE TOO FAR ARE SITUATIONS
LIKE
IT'S GONE TOO FAR ARE SITUATIONS LIKE YOU HEAR ABOUT, -- FOR
EXAMPLE,
LIKE YOU HEAR ABOUT, -- FOR EXAMPLE, I WAS HEARING RECENTLY
TON
EXAMPLE, I WAS HEARING RECENTLY TON RADIO THE FIRST REPORT ABOUT
THE
TON RADIO THE FIRST REPORT ABOUT THE SHOOTING THAT HAPPENED IN
CITY
THE SHOOTING THAT HAPPENED IN CITY HALL WHERE A COUNCILMAN WAS
MURDERED
CITY HALL WHERE A COUNCILMAN WAS MURDERED POINT BLANK WITH A GUN.
IN
MURDERED POINT BLANK WITH A GUN. IN THE FIRST MOMENTS IT SEEMED
AS
IN THE FIRST MOMENTS IT SEEMED AS IF THE SHOOTER WAS FREE.
THEY
AS IF THE SHOOTER WAS FREE. THEY THOUGHT HE HAD ESCAPED AND
WAS
THEY THOUGHT HE HAD ESCAPED AND WAS SOMEWHERE EITHER IN THE
BUILDING
WAS SOMEWHERE EITHER IN THE BUILDING OR IN THE AREA.
THE
BUILDING OR IN THE AREA. THE ALERTS THAT WENT OUT OVER
THE
THE ALERTS THAT WENT OUT OVER THE RADIO -- I WAS LISTENING TO
THE
THE RADIO -- I WAS LISTENING TO THE NEW YORK RADIO.
THE
THE NEW YORK RADIO. THE ALERTS NEVER MENTIONED RACE.
BECAUSE
THE ALERTS NEVER MENTIONED RACE. BECAUSE OF THIS -- BECAUSE OF
THAT
BECAUSE OF THIS -- BECAUSE OF THAT KIND OF A CENSORSHIP OF
THEM.
IT
THEM. IT TURNS OUT THE SHOOTER WAS
HIMSELF
IT TURNS OUT THE SHOOTER WAS HIMSELF CUT DOWN BY A POLICE,
UNDERCOVER
HIMSELF CUT DOWN BY A POLICE, UNDERCOVER POLICEMAN, ON THE
FLOOR
UNDERCOVER POLICEMAN, ON THE FLOOR OF THE COUNCIL CHAMBER.
BUT
FLOOR OF THE COUNCIL CHAMBER. BUT I THINK THERE ARE WAYS THAT
CLEARLY
BUT I THINK THERE ARE WAYS THAT CLEARLY WHERE OUR
HYPERSENSITIVITY
CLEARLY WHERE OUR HYPERSENSITIVITY TO RACIAL
MATTERS
HYPERSENSITIVITY TO RACIAL MATTERS GOES AGAINST LOGIC.
AND
MATTERS GOES AGAINST LOGIC. AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS
AND THERE ARE OTHER PLACES WHERE AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE VERY
LEGITIMATE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE VERY LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES, I THINK,
IN
LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES, I THINK, IN THE PUBLIC REALM.
>>
IN THE PUBLIC REALM. >> CALIFORNIA?
>>
>> CALIFORNIA? >> HI.
I
>> HI. I AM CALLING IN RESPONSE TO A
COMMENT
I AM CALLING IN RESPONSE TO A COMMENT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER
ABOUT
COMMENT THAT WAS MADE EARLIER ABOUT HOW VOTERS ARE POSSIBLY
GOING
ABOUT HOW VOTERS ARE POSSIBLY GOING TO LEAN TOWARDS BUSH
BECAUSE
GOING TO LEAN TOWARDS BUSH BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES AND
BASICALLY
BECAUSE OF HIS POLICIES AND BASICALLY THE SUPPORTING THE
MILITARY.
AND
MILITARY. AND ACTUALLY, FROM WHAT I'M
EXPERIENCING
AND ACTUALLY, FROM WHAT I'M EXPERIENCING IN TALKING TO
PEOPLE
EXPERIENCING IN TALKING TO PEOPLE AND SO FORTH, PEOPLE
DON'T
PEOPLE AND SO FORTH, PEOPLE DON'T FEEL SECURE WITH BUSH AT
ALL
DON'T FEEL SECURE WITH BUSH AT ALL BECAUSE HE WAS AN N OFFICE
NINE
ALL BECAUSE HE WAS AN N OFFICE NINE MONTHS AND WE HAD
AND PERSONALLY, IF I HAVE A SECURITY SYSTEM THAT FAILS ME
AFTER
SECURITY SYSTEM THAT FAILS ME AFTER I PUT IT IN PLACE, I WOULD
ACTUALLY
AFTER I PUT IT IN PLACE, I WOULD ACTUALLY CHANGE THAT.
YOU
ACTUALLY CHANGE THAT. YOU KNOW?
IF
YOU KNOW? IF IT FAILS ME AND SOMETHING
HAPPENS
IF IT FAILS ME AND SOMETHING HAPPENS TO ME, I WOULD CHANGE.
AND
HAPPENS TO ME, I WOULD CHANGE. AND ANOTHER THING IS AFTER
WE WENT IN THE TALIBAN AND STILL HAVEN'T FOUND OSAMA BIN LADEN.
AND
HAVEN'T FOUND OSAMA BIN LADEN. AND BASICALLY BUSH IS TAP
DANCING.
AND
DANCING. AND I DON'T FEEL SECURE
PERSONALLY
AND I DON'T FEEL SECURE PERSONALLY ABOUT THE WHOLE
SECURITY
PERSONALLY ABOUT THE WHOLE SECURITY ISSUE.
>>
SECURITY ISSUE. >> THANKS, CALIFORNIA.
LET'S
>> THANKS, CALIFORNIA. LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT.
WE
LET'S LEAVE IT AT THAT. WE GOT YOUR ISSUE.
>>
WE GOT YOUR ISSUE. >> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT
THE
>> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT THE CALLER SAYS.
YES.
IN
YES. IN MY VIEW, IN MY VIEW THE
BILLION
IN MY VIEW, IN MY VIEW THE BILLION DOLLARS THAT IS BEING
POURED
BILLION DOLLARS THAT IS BEING POURED INTO IRAQ EVERY WEEK
SHOULD
POURED INTO IRAQ EVERY WEEK SHOULD BE GOING TO BUILD UP OUR
OWN
SHOULD BE GOING TO BUILD UP OUR OWN SECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE
IN
OWN SECURITY AND INFRASTRUCTURE IN THIS COUNTRY AND OUR LOCAL
EMERGENCY
IN THIS COUNTRY AND OUR LOCAL EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAMS ARE
STILL
EMERGENCY RESPONSE TEAMS ARE STILL INADEQUATELY TRAINED AND
SUPPLIED.
WE
SUPPLIED. WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF SECURITY
PROBLEMS
WE HAVE ALL KINDS OF SECURITY PROBLEMS AROUND CHEMICAL PLANTS
AND
PROBLEMS AROUND CHEMICAL PLANTS AND NUCLEAR PLANTS IN THIS
COUNTRY.
I
COUNTRY. I THINK THAT JUST -- I COULD GO
ON
I THINK THAT JUST -- I COULD GO ON FOR FIVE HOUR, I'M AFRAID, ON
THE
ON FOR FIVE HOUR, I'M AFRAID, ON THE IRAQ ISSUE, BUT THERE IS A
TREMENDOUS
THE IRAQ ISSUE, BUT THERE IS A TREMENDOUS WASTE OF NATIONAL
ASSETS
TREMENDOUS WASTE OF NATIONAL ASSETS IT SEEMS TO ME ON THE
ADVENTURE
ASSETS IT SEEMS TO ME ON THE ADVENTURE WITH NO END IN SITE.
>>
ADVENTURE WITH NO END IN SITE. >> RHODE ISLAND.
>>
>> RHODE ISLAND. >> YES, I HAPPEN TO DISAGREE
WITH
>> YES, I HAPPEN TO DISAGREE WITH YOU.
THE
WITH YOU. THE CARLISLE GROUP WHICH IS
FRIENDS
THE CARLISLE GROUP WHICH IS FRIENDS WITH GEORGE BUSH HAS
RIZZEN
FRIENDS WITH GEORGE BUSH HAS RIZZEN FROM THE NUMBER FIFTH
MILITARY
RIZZEN FROM THE NUMBER FIFTH MILITARY SUPPLIER TO THE NUMBER
ONE.
ARE
ONE. ARE YOU STILL THERE?
>>
ARE YOU STILL THERE? >> YES.
>>
>> YES. >> TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION
GLOBALIZED
>> TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION GLOBALIZED FASCISM, WHEN YOU PUT
--
GLOBALIZED FASCISM, WHEN YOU PUT -- WHEN A FEW WHO WANT TO IMPOSE
TOTAL
-- WHEN A FEW WHO WANT TO IMPOSE TOTAL CONTROL ON THE MANY THEN
POWER
TOTAL CONTROL ON THE MANY THEN POWER HAS BEEN CENTRALIZED.
IF
POWER HAS BEEN CENTRALIZED. IF YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION
HOMELAND
IF YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION HOMELAND SECURITY OR THE PATRIOT
ACT
HOMELAND SECURITY OR THE PATRIOT ACT OR NO SUPPORT FOR FREE
INTERNET-BASED
ACT OR NO SUPPORT FOR FREE INTERNET-BASED COLLEGE
EDUCATIONS
INTERNET-BASED COLLEGE EDUCATIONS OR THE BUSHES ROLE IN
THE
CONSIDERATION THE C.I.A. REPORTS THAT THE BUSH FAMILY WERE
FRIENDS
THAT THE BUSH FAMILY WERE FRIENDS WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN'S
FAMILY.
AND
FAMILY. AND THAT THE C.I.A. KNEW ABOUT
THE
AND THAT THE C.I.A. KNEW ABOUT THE ATTACKS PRIOR TO THE ATTACK
ON
SOME OF THIS INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE AT INFOWARS.COM.
>>
AVAILABLE AT INFOWARS.COM. >> THANKS, CRANSTON.
>>
>> THANKS, CRANSTON. >> I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST BLAME
THE
>> I MEAN, WE CAN'T JUST BLAME THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.
I
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. I WAS VOCAL IN THE 1990'S ABOUT
THE
I WAS VOCAL IN THE 1990'S ABOUT THE INDIFFERENCE IT SEEMED OF
THE
THE INDIFFERENCE IT SEEMED OF THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TO
THE
THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION TO THE FIRST ATTACK ON THE WORLD
TRADE
THE FIRST ATTACK ON THE WORLD TRADE CENTER.
I
TRADE CENTER. I THINK 1993 I THOUGHT THAT
PEOPLE
I THINK 1993 I THOUGHT THAT PEOPLE IN THE DROPPED IT ALSO.
I
PEOPLE IN THE DROPPED IT ALSO. I THINK THE MEDIA BEARS AN
ENORMOUS
I THINK THE MEDIA BEARS AN ENORMOUS RESPONSIBILITY FOR A
LOT
ENORMOUS RESPONSIBILITY FOR A LOT OF THE PROBLEMS.
AGAIN,
LOT OF THE PROBLEMS. AGAIN, IN THE ALL ADD SORPGS IN
DOMESTIC
AGAIN, IN THE ALL ADD SORPGS IN DOMESTIC ISSUES AND THE MEDIA
DESERVES
DOMESTIC ISSUES AND THE MEDIA DESERVES TREMENDOUS BLAME FOR
THE
DESERVES TREMENDOUS BLAME FOR THE LIMPNESS IN THE FACE OF OUR
BUILD
THE LIMPNESS IN THE FACE OF OUR BUILD UP TOWARD WAR LAST YEAR.
WE
BUILD UP TOWARD WAR LAST YEAR. WE NEVER HAD A REAL NATIONAL
DEBATE
WE NEVER HAD A REAL NATIONAL DEBATE ON THE LEAD UP TO IRAQ
AND
DEBATE ON THE LEAD UP TO IRAQ AND OFTEN BLAME THE DEMOCRATIC
SENATORS
AND OFTEN BLAME THE DEMOCRATIC SENATORS OF MY OWN PARTY.
THEY
SENATORS OF MY OWN PARTY. THEY LAID DOWN FLAT LIKE PERSIAN
RUGS.
WE
RUGS. WE HAD NO NATIONAL DEBATE OON
THE
WE HAD NO NATIONAL DEBATE OON THE QUESTION OF WAR AND I THINK
THE
THE QUESTION OF WAR AND I THINK THE POPULATION WOULD SEEM TO BY
POLLING
THE POPULATION WOULD SEEM TO BY POLLING SUPPORT THE INVASION OF
IRAQ.
WAS,
IRAQ. WAS, IN FACT, MISINFORMED ABOUT
THE
WAS, IN FACT, MISINFORMED ABOUT THE POTENTIAL CONSEQUENCES OF
THIS.
AND
THIS. AND WHAT A MESS.
THEIR
AND WHAT A MESS. THEIR WHOLE REGION, ANYONE WHO
READS
THEIR WHOLE REGION, ANYONE WHO READS ANYTHING ABOUT THE HISTORY
OF
READS ANYTHING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE REGION GOING ALL THE WAY
BACK
OF THE REGION GOING ALL THE WAY BACK TO ANTIQUITY HAS TO FEAR
THIS
BACK TO ANTIQUITY HAS TO FEAR THIS NAIVE STEPPING INTO THIS
PROBLEM
THIS NAIVE STEPPING INTO THIS PROBLEM FROM WHICH I DON'T SEE
ANY
PROBLEM FROM WHICH I DON'T SEE ANY DATA OR EXTRICATION IN SITE.
>>
ANY DATA OR EXTRICATION IN SITE. >> WE HAVE JUST 40 MINUTES LEFT.
THE
>> WE HAVE JUST 40 MINUTES LEFT. THE EMAILERS HAVE BEEN WILD
ABOUT
THE EMAILERS HAVE BEEN WILD ABOUT ASKING ABOUT DIFFERENT
PEOPLE.
IF
PEOPLE. IF YOU COULD, I WOULD LIKE TO
RUN
IF YOU COULD, I WOULD LIKE TO RUN THROUGH SOME OF THE PEOPLE
THAT
RUN THROUGH SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WANT YOUR OPINION AND WE'LL
GO
THAT WANT YOUR OPINION AND WE'LL GO ON.
CONDOLEEZZA
GO ON. CONDOLEEZZA RICE RICE.
>>
CONDOLEEZZA RICE RICE. >> I THINK SHE IS A GREAT MIND.
I
>> I THINK SHE IS A GREAT MIND. I ADMIRED HER FOR A LONG TIME,
BUT
I ADMIRED HER FOR A LONG TIME, BUT I THINK HE IS THE A LITTLE
FEELEY
BUT I THINK HE IS THE A LITTLE FEELEY AND COLD.
I
FEELEY AND COLD. I AM A LITTLE -- I AM A LITTLE
UNNERVED
I AM A LITTLE -- I AM A LITTLE UNNERVED BY SOMEONE WITH SUCH AN
EVIDENT
UNNERVED BY SOMEONE WITH SUCH AN EVIDENT LACK OF PERSONAL
RELATIONSHIPS
EVIDENT LACK OF PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS SENDING FAMILIES
AND
RELATIONSHIPS SENDING FAMILIES AND RESIDENTS OF FAMILIES TO
FIGHT
AND RESIDENTS OF FAMILIES TO FIGHT AND DIE IN IRAQ.
I'M
FIGHT AND DIE IN IRAQ. I'M AFRAID IN RECENT WEEKS IT
WAS
I'M AFRAID IN RECENT WEEKS IT WAS APPARENT WHERE SHE WAS KIND
OF
WAS APPARENT WHERE SHE WAS KIND OF NOT WILLING TO TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY
OF NOT WILLING TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FROM HER OWN
OFFICE
RESPONSIBILITY FROM HER OWN OFFICE THAT HER STAR MAY BE BE
BESMIRCHED.
BECAUSE
BESMIRCHED. BECAUSE I AM SO INTERESTED IN
THE
BECAUSE I AM SO INTERESTED IN THE IDEA OF A WOMAN PRESIDENT,
CONDOLEEZZA
THE IDEA OF A WOMAN PRESIDENT, CONDOLEEZZA RICE IN THE RECENT
YEARS
CONDOLEEZZA RICE IN THE RECENT YEARS -- I LOVE THE WAY SHE
TAKES
YEARS -- I LOVE THE WAY SHE TAKES STAGE AND THE WAY SHE
COMES
TAKES STAGE AND THE WAY SHE COMES OUT FOR A PRESS CONFERENCE
AND
COMES OUT FOR A PRESS CONFERENCE AND IS ABLE TO HANDLE THE MIKE,
HANDLE
AND IS ABLE TO HANDLE THE MIKE, HANDLE THE MEDIA.
THIS
HANDLE THE MEDIA. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED.
THAT
THIS IS WHAT WE NEED. THAT FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT
SHOULD
THAT FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT SHOULD BE STUDYING CONDOLEEZZA
RICE'S
SHOULD BE STUDYING CONDOLEEZZA RICE'S MANNER, PLUS SHE IS A
CULL
RICE'S MANNER, PLUS SHE IS A CULL ACTIVATED WOMAN A MASTER OF
THE
CULL ACTIVATED WOMAN A MASTER OF THE PIANO AND ATHLETIC PERSON.
>>
THE PIANO AND ATHLETIC PERSON. >> CHOMSKEY.
>>
>> CHOMSKEY. >> THERE'S BEEN NASTY THINGS
SAID
>> THERE'S BEEN NASTY THINGS SAID ABOUT ME BY HIM, SO I THINK
THAT
SAID ABOUT ME BY HIM, SO I THINK THAT THE LINGUISTIC THEORIES ARE
OVERBLOWN.
I
OVERBLOWN. I THINK THAT HE IS -- I THINK
THAT
I THINK THAT HE IS -- I THINK THAT HIS THEORIES HAVE BEEN A
KIND
THAT HIS THEORIES HAVE BEEN A KIND OF FASCISM IN ACADEMIA.
I
KIND OF FASCISM IN ACADEMIA. I DON'T THINK HE IS A DEEPLY
LEARNED
I DON'T THINK HE IS A DEEPLY LEARNED PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF
WORLD
LEARNED PERSON IN THE HISTORY OF WORLD LANGUAGES.
I
WORLD LANGUAGES. I THINK THAT HE IS SOMEONE WHO
HAS
I THINK THAT HE IS SOMEONE WHO HAS A VERY DISTORTED WAY OF
PERCEIVING
HAS A VERY DISTORTED WAY OF PERCEIVING REALITY AND HE IS ONE
OF
PERCEIVING REALITY AND HE IS ONE OF THE GREAT ANTI-AMERICAN
VOICES
OF THE GREAT ANTI-AMERICAN VOICES WHICH WE HAVE COMFORTABLY
ENSCONCED
VOICES WHICH WE HAVE COMFORTABLY ENSCONCED WITH THIS JOB HE
DIDN'T
ENSCONCED WITH THIS JOB HE DIDN'T EVEN APPLY FOR AT M.I.T.
ALL
DIDN'T EVEN APPLY FOR AT M.I.T. ALL THOSE YEARS.
IT
ALL THOSE YEARS. IT IS NOT EVEN HIS FIELD OF
FOREIGN
IT IS NOT EVEN HIS FIELD OF FOREIGN RELATIONS.
I
FOREIGN RELATIONS. I THINK HE IS A KIND OF -- I
THINK
I THINK HE IS A KIND OF -- I THINK HE HALLUCINATES A BIT
ABOUT
THINK HE HALLUCINATES A BIT ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY.
ON
ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY. ON THE OTHER HAND, LET ME SAY
THIS.
THE
THIS. THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BY GOING
INTO
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION BY GOING INTO IRAQ HAS MANAGED TO
VINDICATE
INTO IRAQ HAS MANAGED TO VINDICATE NORM'S ENTIRE VIEW.
ONE
VINDICATE NORM'S ENTIRE VIEW. ONE OF THE MAIN CRITICISMS I
HAVE
ONE OF THE MAIN CRITICISMS I HAVE HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON IS
THAT
HAVE HAPPENED IN WASHINGTON IS THAT NORM CHOMSKEY'S VIEWS WHICH
SEEMED
THAT NORM CHOMSKEY'S VIEWS WHICH SEEMED ABSOLUTELY DELUSIONAL NOW
SEEM
SEEMED ABSOLUTELY DELUSIONAL NOW SEEM TO HAVE THE RING OF TRUTH.
>>
SEEM TO HAVE THE RING OF TRUTH. >> MATT DRUDGE.
>>
>> MATT DRUDGE. >> MATT DRUDGE IS ONE OF THE
GREAT
>> MATT DRUDGE IS ONE OF THE GREAT VOICE OF OUR TIME.
I
GREAT VOICE OF OUR TIME. I LIKE HIM.
THE
I LIKE HIM. THE DRUDGE REPORT IS THE FIRST
THING
THE DRUDGE REPORT IS THE FIRST THING I TURN TO WHEN I GO
ONLINE.
IT'S
ONLINE. IT'S THE LAST THING I TURN TO
BEFORE
IT'S THE LAST THING I TURN TO BEFORE I GO ONLINE.
IF
BEFORE I GO ONLINE. IF I'M ON LINE FOR A LONG TIME,
I
IF I'M ON LINE FOR A LONG TIME, I AM ON IT FOUR OR FIVE TIMES.
THIS
I AM ON IT FOUR OR FIVE TIMES. THIS IS THE NET, THIS IS THE
WEB.
EVEN
WEB. EVEN THOUGH HE IS ONLY PUTTING
LINKS
EVEN THOUGH HE IS ONLY PUTTING LINKS UP THERE, WHAT HIS CHOICES
OF
LINKS UP THERE, WHAT HIS CHOICES OF THEM, AND HE IS LIKE AN
IMPROVISATIONAL
OF THEM, AND HE IS LIKE AN IMPROVISATIONAL ARTIST TO ME.
IN
IMPROVISATIONAL ARTIST TO ME. IN FACT, IN THE MAIN LINE OF
ANDY
IN FACT, IN THE MAIN LINE OF ANDY WARHOL WAS A GREAT TO -- IT
WAS
ANDY WARHOL WAS A GREAT TO -- IT WAS A GREAT MOVTIVATOR TO ME AS
WELL.
ALMOST
WELL. ALMOST THE POETIC AND FREE FORM
WAY
ALMOST THE POETIC AND FREE FORM WAY HE TREATS HIS SITE IS TO ME
ONE
WAY HE TREATS HIS SITE IS TO ME ONE OF THE UNIQUE EXPERIENCES OF
OUR
ONE OF THE UNIQUE EXPERIENCES OF OUR TIME.
I
OUR TIME. I REALLY RESPECT HIM.
HE
I REALLY RESPECT HIM. HE IS RETROCONSERVATIVE IN THE
THINKING
HE IS RETROCONSERVATIVE IN THE THINKING THAN ME, BUT I THINK HE
IS
THINKING THAN ME, BUT I THINK HE IS TELLING IN TERMS OF THE FINE
ARTS
IS TELLING IN TERMS OF THE FINE ARTS ARE ACTUALLY NOT PRODUCING
ANYTHING
ARTS ARE ACTUALLY NOT PRODUCING ANYTHING PARTICULARLY
INTERESTING
ANYTHING PARTICULARLY INTERESTING OR ANOTHER BIZARRE
EXHIBITIONS
INTERESTING OR ANOTHER BIZARRE EXHIBITIONS FROM ENGLAND WHERE
YOU
EXHIBITIONS FROM ENGLAND WHERE YOU HAVE COWS AND BODY ON
DISPLAY.
I
DISPLAY. I THINK DRUDGE IS ACTUALLY ONE
OF
I THINK DRUDGE IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF
PRAMPLEMANS
OF THE BEST EXAMPLES OF PRAMPLEMANS ARTIST.
HE
PRAMPLEMANS ARTIST. HE IS A MASTER OF RADIO.
THAT
HE IS A MASTER OF RADIO. THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT
THAN
THAT IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE WEBSITE.
>>
THAN THE WEBSITE. >> PHOENIX, ARIZONA.
PHOENIX,
>> PHOENIX, ARIZONA. PHOENIX, ARE YOU THERE?
GO
PHOENIX, ARE YOU THERE? GO AHEAD, PHOENIX.
CALLER:
GO AHEAD, PHOENIX. CALLER: YES?
>>
CALLER: YES? >> GO AHEAD, SIR.
YOU
>> GO AHEAD, SIR. YOU ARE ON THE AIR.
CALLER:
YOU ARE ON THE AIR. CALLER: SORRY.
I
CALLER: SORRY. I WANTED TO ASK MISS PAGLIA A
BIG
I WANTED TO ASK MISS PAGLIA A BIG QUESTION AND A FOLLOW-UP
QUESTION.
IN
QUESTION. IN STUDYING POPULATION IN
RELATION
IN STUDYING POPULATION IN RELATION TO THE WESTERN CANNON,
HOW
RELATION TO THE WESTERN CANNON, HOW DO YOU EXPECT STUDENTS OF
YOUR
HOW DO YOU EXPECT STUDENTS OF YOUR WORK OR WHOEVER'S, HOW DOES
THAT
YOUR WORK OR WHOEVER'S, HOW DOES THAT BENEFIT THEIR UNDERSTANDING
OF
THAT BENEFIT THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THE CANNON?
AND
OF THE CANNON? AND ALSO, COULD I -- I ACTUALLY
THINK
AND ALSO, COULD I -- I ACTUALLY THINK YOUR WORK MAKES A
MYTHOLOGY
THINK YOUR WORK MAKES A MYTHOLOGY OF THE PRESENT.
MY
MYTHOLOGY OF THE PRESENT. MY SECOND MINOR QUESTION IS
JUST,
MY SECOND MINOR QUESTION IS JUST, DO YOU HAVE ANY
RECOMMENDATIONS
JUST, DO YOU HAVE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS ON WRITERS -- I
ADMIRE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON WRITERS -- I ADMIRE -- I'M GAY MYSELF AND I
ADMIRE
ADMIRE -- I'M GAY MYSELF AND I ADMIRE -- SO MANY THINGS HAD SOB
SAID
ADMIRE -- SO MANY THINGS HAD SOB SAID THERE THAT YOU SAID.
AND
SAID THERE THAT YOU SAID. AND ANYONE THAT YOU RECOMMEND
THAT
AND ANYONE THAT YOU RECOMMEND THAT YOU FIND INSIGHTFUL IN
REGARD
THAT YOU FIND INSIGHTFUL IN REGARD TO HOMOSEXUAL
CONTEMPORARY
REGARD TO HOMOSEXUAL CONTEMPORARY AND OTHERWISE.
>>
CONTEMPORARY AND OTHERWISE. >> OK.
ALL
>> OK. ALL RIGHT.
WAIT.
YES,
WAIT. YES, THE OVERALL THEORY HOLDING
TOGETHER
YES, THE OVERALL THEORY HOLDING TOGETHER MY WORK IS THIS -- THAT
JUDEO
TOGETHER MY WORK IS THIS -- THAT JUDEO CHRISTIANITY NEVER DID
DEFEAT
JUDEO CHRISTIANITY NEVER DID DEFEAT PAG AFGHANISTANISM AS THE
HISTORYBOOKS
DEFEAT PAG AFGHANISTANISM AS THE HISTORYBOOKS SAY, BUT RATHER,
GRECO
HISTORYBOOKS SAY, BUT RATHER, GRECO ROMAN PAGANISM WENT
UNDERGROUND
GRECO ROMAN PAGANISM WENT UNDERGROUND AND THAT WAS THE
RENAISSANCE.
MOST
RENAISSANCE. MOST PEOPLE WOULD ACCEPT THAT.
THE
MOST PEOPLE WOULD ACCEPT THAT. THE SECOND ERUPTION OF PAGANISM
WAS
THE SECOND ERUPTION OF PAGANISM WAS ROMANTICISM WHERE YOU HAD
THE
WAS ROMANTICISM WHERE YOU HAD THE PRIME EVIL STUFF COMING FROM
THE
THE PRIME EVIL STUFF COMING FROM THE EARTH.
AND
THE EARTH. AND THE THIRD ERUPTION IS THE
AGE
AND THE THIRD ERUPTION IS THE AGE OF HOLLYWOOD WHICH IS WHAT I
CALL
AGE OF HOLLYWOOD WHICH IS WHAT I CALL THE 20TH CENTURY.
WHAT
CALL THE 20TH CENTURY. WHAT WE ARE GETTING IN THE PAGAN
--
WHAT WE ARE GETTING IN THE PAGAN -- UNTIL THE GREAT STUDIO ERA
WITH
-- UNTIL THE GREAT STUDIO ERA WITH THE STARS AND THE
INCREDIBLE
WITH THE STARS AND THE INCREDIBLE KIND OF MANUFACTURER
OF
INCREDIBLE KIND OF MANUFACTURER OF STARS OF LEVEL AND DETRICH
AND
OF STARS OF LEVEL AND DETRICH AND RITA HAYWORTH, ETC., YES, I
FEEL
AND RITA HAYWORTH, ETC., YES, I FEEL THAT MODERN POPULAR CULTURE
IS
FEEL THAT MODERN POPULAR CULTURE IS THE FINAL TERM IN THIS STORY.
THEREFORE,
IS THE FINAL TERM IN THIS STORY. THEREFORE, THE WASTELAND OF
THINGS
THEREFORE, THE WASTELAND OF THINGS SAYING IS, IN FACT, IN
COMPLETE
THINGS SAYING IS, IN FACT, IN COMPLETE COLLAPSE.
THAT
COMPLETE COLLAPSE. THAT IS COMPLETE DELUSION.
MAYBE
THAT IS COMPLETE DELUSION. MAYBE IT WAS COLLAPSING INTO
CUBIST,
MAYBE IT WAS COLLAPSING INTO CUBIST, AND I AM A GREAT
ADMIRERER
CUBIST, AND I AM A GREAT ADMIRERER OF PICASSO, SO I DON'T
MEAN
ADMIRERER OF PICASSO, SO I DON'T MEAN TO TO DIMINISH CUBISM, BUT
THE
MEAN TO TO DIMINISH CUBISM, BUT THE DOMESTIC VIEW OF CULTURE
BEING
THE DOMESTIC VIEW OF CULTURE BEING AT THE END AND THE WEST
BEING
BEING AT THE END AND THE WEST BEING OVER, WHICH WE SEE IN
SAMUEL
BEING OVER, WHICH WE SEE IN SAMUEL BECK'S WORK FOLLOWING
WORLD
SAMUEL BECK'S WORK FOLLOWING WORLD WARII AND I ABSOLUTELY
ABHORED
WORLD WARII AND I ABSOLUTELY ABHORED FROM THE MOMENTS I SAW
IN
ABHORED FROM THE MOMENTS I SAW IN IT COLLEGE.
THIS
IN IT COLLEGE. THIS BLEAK VIEW OF CULTURE AND
OF
THIS BLEAK VIEW OF CULTURE AND OF LIFE IS NOTHING BUT AN EMPTY
LANDSCAPE
OF LIFE IS NOTHING BUT AN EMPTY LANDSCAPE WITH ONE PORTRAIT
TRYING
LANDSCAPE WITH ONE PORTRAIT TRYING TO COME BACK TO LIFE AND
HOE
TRYING TO COME BACK TO LIFE AND HOE BOS CHUGE ON CHICKEN BONES
AND
HOE BOS CHUGE ON CHICKEN BONES AND NO WOMEN IN SITE, BY THE
WAY.
INSED,
WAY. INSED, WHAT WAS GOING ON IN
HOLLYWOOD
INSED, WHAT WAS GOING ON IN HOLLYWOOD AT THAT POINT WAS
FANTASTIC.
WHAT
FANTASTIC. WHAT HOLLYWOOD SUPPLIES WAS WHAT
AVANT-GARDE
WHAT HOLLYWOOD SUPPLIES WAS WHAT AVANT-GARDE CULTURE DENIED WAS
POSSIBLE
AVANT-GARDE CULTURE DENIED WAS POSSIBLE ANY LONGER.
EMOTION
POSSIBLE ANY LONGER. EMOTION AND BEAUTY AND THE BODY.
THAT
EMOTION AND BEAUTY AND THE BODY. THAT IS WHY THE MASS AUDIENCE
GROUND
THAT IS WHY THE MASS AUDIENCE GROUND IT IN POP CULTURE.
WHEN
GROUND IT IN POP CULTURE. WHEN YOU GET PEOPLE LIKE NAOMI
WOLF
WHEN YOU GET PEOPLE LIKE NAOMI WOLF AND OTHER FEMINISTS BAD
MOUTHING
WOLF AND OTHER FEMINISTS BAD MOUTHING THE MASS MEDIA, I SAY,
WAIT.
GET
WAIT. GET OFF THESE FOREIGN THEORIES
WITH
GET OFF THESE FOREIGN THEORIES WITH ALL COMING FROM THE SCHOOL
OF
WITH ALL COMING FROM THE SCHOOL OF MODIFICATION AND ALL THAT,
GET
OF MODIFICATION AND ALL THAT, GET OFF THAT AND REALIZE THE
DEGREE
GET OFF THAT AND REALIZE THE DEGREE TO WHICH THAT THE WORKING
CLASS
DEGREE TO WHICH THAT THE WORKING CLASS AND THE MASS AUDIENCE NOT
ONLY
CLASS AND THE MASS AUDIENCE NOT ONLY HERE, BUT NOW WORLDWIDE HAS
FED
ONLY HERE, BUT NOW WORLDWIDE HAS FED OFF THE MAGNIFICENT IMAGES.
I
FED OFF THE MAGNIFICENT IMAGES. I DO SEE A CONTINUITY.
I
I DO SEE A CONTINUITY. I SEE CONTINUITY IN THE WEST
GOING
I SEE CONTINUITY IN THE WEST GOING DOWN FROM THE SOUNDING
GREAT
GOING DOWN FROM THE SOUNDING GREAT WORKS OF LITERATURE AND
ART
GREAT WORKS OF LITERATURE AND ART INTO THE GREAT CLASSIC
MOVIES
ART INTO THE GREAT CLASSIC MOVIES AND SO ON.
THERE
MOVIES AND SO ON. THERE IS A LOT OF TRASH IN
POPULAR
THERE IS A LOT OF TRASH IN POPULAR CULTURE RIGHT NOW, WHICH
I
POPULAR CULTURE RIGHT NOW, WHICH I CERTAINLY DON'T MEAN YOUNG
PEOPLE
I CERTAINLY DON'T MEAN YOUNG PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABSORBING THAT
TRASH.
>>
TRASH. >> WE'RE GOING TO GET TO THAT
LIST.
A
LIST. A LIST OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE
GOING
A LIST OF THE PEOPLE YOU'RE GOING TO RECOMMEND.
BUT
GOING TO RECOMMEND. BUT WE WILL PUT THAT ALL
TOGETHER
BUT WE WILL PUT THAT ALL TOGETHER IN A FEW MINUTES.
SHOULD
TOGETHER IN A FEW MINUTES. SHOULD GOVERNMENT LIMIT THE
SUPPORT
SHOULD GOVERNMENT LIMIT THE SUPPORT OF THE ARTS?
>>
SUPPORT OF THE ARTS? >> RIGHT.
OK.
GOVERNMENT
OK. GOVERNMENT SUPPORT OF THE ARTS
SHOULD
GOVERNMENT SUPPORT OF THE ARTS SHOULD BE A GIVEN.
IT
SHOULD BE A GIVEN. IT SHOULD BE A GIVEN.
THE
IT SHOULD BE A GIVEN. THE MIN SCHOOL AMOUNT GIVEN BY
THE
THE MIN SCHOOL AMOUNT GIVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT -- BUT WHO IS TO
BLAME
THE GOVERNMENT -- BUT WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THE DECLINING AMOUNT?
THE
BLAME FOR THE DECLINING AMOUNT? THE ARTS COMMUNITY ITSELF BY
IDENTIFYING
THE ARTS COMMUNITY ITSELF BY IDENTIFYING ITS CUTTING EDGE
WORK
IDENTIFYING ITS CUTTING EDGE WORK WITH ART WORK THAT PROFANE
AND
WORK WITH ART WORK THAT PROFANE AND ESTABLISH RELIGIOUS VALUE.
WHY
AND ESTABLISH RELIGIOUS VALUE. WHY SHOULD ANY TAXPAYER FEEL HE
OR
WHY SHOULD ANY TAXPAYER FEEL HE OR SHE IS UNDERWRITING PISS
CHRIST
OR SHE IS UNDERWRITING PISS CHRIST WHERE YOU HAD A CRUCIFIX
SUBMERGED
CHRIST WHERE YOU HAD A CRUCIFIX SUBMERGED IN A BEAKER OF THE
ARTIST'S
SUBMERGED IN A BEAKER OF THE ARTIST'S URINE?
THERE'S
ARTIST'S URINE? THERE'S A LOT TO BE SAID FOR
TRANCE
THERE'S A LOT TO BE SAID FOR TRANCE DEGREESSOR.
>>
TRANCE DEGREESSOR. >> I LOVED MAPLE, BUT THE IDEA
IS
>> I LOVED MAPLE, BUT THE IDEA IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT NEEDED TO
SUPPORT
IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT NEEDED TO SUPPORT MAPLE THORPE AT THE TIME
WHEN
SUPPORT MAPLE THORPE AT THE TIME WHEN HE WAS ALREADY RICH FROM
THE
WHEN HE WAS ALREADY RICH FROM THE WORKS.
HE
THE WORKS. HE WAS NOT A STRUGGLING ARTIST.
I
HE WAS NOT A STRUGGLING ARTIST. I WROTE AN ESSAY IN A MAGAZINE
THAT
I WROTE AN ESSAY IN A MAGAZINE THAT IS COLLECTED IN "SEX, ART,
AND
THAT IS COLLECTED IN "SEX, ART, AND THE AMERICAN CULTURE" WHERE
I
AND THE AMERICAN CULTURE" WHERE I ADORE HIM AND WROTE AN OMAGE
TO
I ADORE HIM AND WROTE AN OMAGE TO THE PORTRAIT OF PETTY SMITH
FOR
TO THE PORTRAIT OF PETTY SMITH FOR THE COVER OF HORSES.
I
FOR THE COVER OF HORSES. I LOVE EVERYTHING TRANSGRESSIVE
ABOUT
I LOVE EVERYTHING TRANSGRESSIVE ABOUT HIM.
NEVERTHELESS,
ABOUT HIM. NEVERTHELESS, NOT ALL ART HAS
BEEN
NEVERTHELESS, NOT ALL ART HAS BEEN TRANCE GRESSIVE.
IT
BEEN TRANCE GRESSIVE. IT IS A VIEW OF HERITAGE OF
ROMANTICISM
IT IS A VIEW OF HERITAGE OF ROMANTICISM SINCE THE EARLY 19TH
CENTURY,
ROMANTICISM SINCE THE EARLY 19TH CENTURY, MOST OF ART AND HUMAN
HISTORY
CENTURY, MOST OF ART AND HUMAN HISTORY HAS BEEN A CELEBRATION
OF
HISTORY HAS BEEN A CELEBRATION OF POWER.
THE
OF POWER. THE CHURCH GAVE MONEY FOR THE
FIRST
THE CHURCH GAVE MONEY FOR THE FIRST CELEBRATION T GOVERNMENT
OR
FIRST CELEBRATION T GOVERNMENT OR PRINCES GAVE MONEY FOR
CELEBRATION
OR PRINCES GAVE MONEY FOR CELEBRATION THEMSELVES.
THE
CELEBRATION THEMSELVES. THE MILES AN HOUR MID.
MOST
THE MILES AN HOUR MID. MOST OF THE -- THE PYRAMIDS.
MOST
MOST OF THE -- THE PYRAMIDS. MOST OF THE HISTORY OF ART IS
THE
MOST OF THE HISTORY OF ART IS THE UNDERWRITING OF PROPAGANDA.
NEVERTHELESS,
THE UNDERWRITING OF PROPAGANDA. NEVERTHELESS, THE WORKMEN AND
ARTISANS
NEVERTHELESS, THE WORKMEN AND ARTISANS PRODUCED FANTASTIC
WORK.
I
WORK. I COME FROM ITALIAN CULTURE
WHERE
I COME FROM ITALIAN CULTURE WHERE IT IS ASSUMED THAT THE
PEASANT
WHERE IT IS ASSUMED THAT THE PEASANT IN THE FIELD, MY PEOPLE
FROM
PEASANT IN THE FIELD, MY PEOPLE FROM WHOM I CAME, THAT THE
OPERAS
FROM WHOM I CAME, THAT THE OPERAS ARE THE HERITAGE AND
MICHELANGELO
OPERAS ARE THE HERITAGE AND MICHELANGELO IS THEIR HERITAGE.
IT
MICHELANGELO IS THEIR HERITAGE. IT DOESN'T BELONG TO THE ELITE.
NO
IT DOESN'T BELONG TO THE ELITE. NO WAY SO.
WHAT'S
NO WAY SO. WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY
IS
WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY IS THE WAY THE ARTS COMMUNITY
MANAGED
IS THE WAY THE ARTS COMMUNITY MANAGED TO SHOOT ITSELF IN THE
FOOT
MANAGED TO SHOOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT WHEN THEY BROUGHT A
COLLECTION
FOOT WHEN THEY BROUGHT A COLLECTION OVER TO THE BROOKLYN
MUSEUM
COLLECTION OVER TO THE BROOKLYN MUSEUM OF ART, AND IN THIS IS
NOTHING
MUSEUM OF ART, AND IN THIS IS NOTHING OF ANY RELIGIOUS
CONSEQUENCE
NOTHING OF ANY RELIGIOUS CONSEQUENCE OR REFERENCE IN THE
WHOLE
CONSEQUENCE OR REFERENCE IN THE WHOLE EXHIBITION EXCEPT FOR ONE
THING
WHOLE EXHIBITION EXCEPT FOR ONE THING AND THAT IS THIS MADONNA
FIGURE
THING AND THAT IS THIS MADONNA FIGURE BY A NIGH JEERIAN BRITISH
ARTIST
FIGURE BY A NIGH JEERIAN BRITISH ARTIST WHERE YOU HAD THE
ELEPHANT
ARTIST WHERE YOU HAD THE ELEPHANT DUNG BEING USED FOR THE
BREASTS
ELEPHANT DUNG BEING USED FOR THE BREASTS AND LITTLE CUTOUTS OF
WOMENS
BREASTS AND LITTLE CUTOUTS OF WOMENS GENITALIA FROM
PORNOGRAPHIC
WOMENS GENITALIA FROM PORNOGRAPHIC MAGAZINES PEASTED
ALL
PORNOGRAPHIC MAGAZINES PEASTED ALL AROUND HER.
THAT
ALL AROUND HER. THAT IS THE PART THAT THE
LIBERALS
THAT IS THE PART THAT THE LIBERALS ARE DEFENDING.
NOW,
LIBERALS ARE DEFENDING. NOW, I COULD GIVE A LECTURE ON
THAT
NOW, I COULD GIVE A LECTURE ON THAT EXPLAINING WHAT HE MEANT BY
THAT.
IN
THAT. IN TERMS OF AFRICAN, TRADITIONAL
AFRICAN
IN TERMS OF AFRICAN, TRADITIONAL AFRICAN FERTILITY RELIGION AND
SO
AFRICAN FERTILITY RELIGION AND SO ON, THERE ARE MANY POTENTIAL
MEANINGS.
BUT
MEANINGS. BUT THE MUSEUM, WHAT A BUNCH OF
COCONUTS.
THEY
COCONUTS. THEY WANTED TO OFFEND THE
CATHOLIC
THEY WANTED TO OFFEND THE CATHOLIC SENSIBILITIES.
THEY
CATHOLIC SENSIBILITIES. THEY LOVED -- THE CATHOLIC
CHURCH
THEY LOVED -- THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS YOU CAN SAY AGAINST
THE
CHURCH IS YOU CAN SAY AGAINST THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT
ANYTHING
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, BUT ANYTHING ABOUT JUDAISM OR ISLAM
FOR
ANYTHING ABOUT JUDAISM OR ISLAM FOR MANY YEARS WAS IMPOSSIBLE.
SO
FOR MANY YEARS WAS IMPOSSIBLE. SO THE BERG MUSEUM SHOULD HAVE
REALIZED
SO THE BERG MUSEUM SHOULD HAVE REALIZED THIS AND SUPPORTED IT
IN
REALIZED THIS AND SUPPORTED IT IN A WAY OF HAVING A BROCHURE OR
SOMETHING
IN A WAY OF HAVING A BROCHURE OR SOMETHING BEFORE YOU ENTER IT
ABOUT
SOMETHING BEFORE YOU ENTER IT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TRANCE
GRESSIVE
ABOUT THE HISTORY OF TRANCE GRESSIVE ART AND OBJECTS THAT
OFFEND
GRESSIVE ART AND OBJECTS THAT OFFEND OR SOMETHING TO GIVE THE
THING
OFFEND OR SOMETHING TO GIVE THE THING CONTEXT.
AND
THING CONTEXT. AND THEN WHEN GIULIANI WADED
INTO
AND THEN WHEN GIULIANI WADED INTO IT BY TRYING TO CUT OFF
SUPPORT
INTO IT BY TRYING TO CUT OFF SUPPORT TO THE BROOKLYN MUSEUM.
WHAT
SUPPORT TO THE BROOKLYN MUSEUM. WHAT I AM SAYING IS THE REASON
THAT
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THE REASON THAT REF THIS STATICALLY SMALL
BUDGET
THAT REF THIS STATICALLY SMALL BUDGET FOR THE ART IN THE TREE
COUNTRY
BUDGET FOR THE ART IN THE TREE COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF THE
ARROGANCE
COUNTRY IS BECAUSE OF THE ARROGANCE WITH WHICH THE ARTS
COMMUNITY
ARROGANCE WITH WHICH THE ARTS COMMUNITY HAS CONDUCTED ITSELF
BY
COMMUNITY HAS CONDUCTED ITSELF BY SAYING TO THE MAIN STREAM
AUDIENCE
BY SAYING TO THE MAIN STREAM AUDIENCE IN AMERICA, WE ARE
ABOUT
AUDIENCE IN AMERICA, WE ARE ABOUT SPITTING ON YOU, TAKING
YOUR
ABOUT SPITTING ON YOU, TAKING YOUR MONEY AND SPITTING ON YOU.
WHAT
YOUR MONEY AND SPITTING ON YOU. WHAT KIND OF ART TEACHING OR ART
EDUCATION
WHAT KIND OF ART TEACHING OR ART EDUCATION CAN GO FORWARD WITH
THAT
EDUCATION CAN GO FORWARD WITH THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE?
>>
THAT KIND OF ATTITUDE? >> OCALA, FLORIDA.
CALLER:
>> OCALA, FLORIDA. CALLER: HI, DOCTOR.
YOU
CALLER: HI, DOCTOR. YOU MINGSED INTELLECTUAL A FEW
TIMES.
I
TIMES. I AM A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN
AND
I AM A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN AND LOOKED UP INTELLECTUAL IN
THE
AND LOOKED UP INTELLECTUAL IN THE DICTIONARY AND IT SAYS
"RATIONALE
THE DICTIONARY AND IT SAYS "RATIONALE AS OPPOSED TO
EMOTIONAL."
MY
EMOTIONAL." MY QUESTION HYPE TET CAL.
MIGHT
MY QUESTION HYPE TET CAL. MIGHT DOES NOT MAKE RIGHT, BUT
THROUGHOUT
MIGHT DOES NOT MAKE RIGHT, BUT THROUGHOUT HISTORY IT SEEMS MEN
HAVE
THROUGHOUT HISTORY IT SEEMS MEN HAVE RUN THE WORLD DUE TO THE
PHYSICAL
HAVE RUN THE WORLD DUE TO THE PHYSICAL AGGRESSIVENESS AS
OPPOSED
PHYSICAL AGGRESSIVENESS AS OPPOSED TO THE SUBMISSIVENESS OF
THE
OPPOSED TO THE SUBMISSIVENESS OF THE WOMEN.
WHEN
THE WOMEN. WHEN IT COMES TO FEMINISM, DOES
IT
WHEN IT COMES TO FEMINISM, DOES IT HOLD TRUE THAT FEMINISM WOULD
NOT
IT HOLD TRUE THAT FEMINISM WOULD NOT EXIST EXCEPT FOR THE
BENEVOLENCE
NOT EXIST EXCEPT FOR THE BENEVOLENCE AND TOLERANCE OF MEN
AND
BENEVOLENCE AND TOLERANCE OF MEN AND FEMINISM IS ONE COLLECTIVE
--
AND FEMINISM IS ONE COLLECTIVE -- ONE COLLECTIVE AGGRESSIVE
STROKE
-- ONE COLLECTIVE AGGRESSIVE STROKE AWAY FROM EXTINCTION?
>>
STROKE AWAY FROM EXTINCTION? >> WELL, I THINK FEMINISM IS
PERMANENT.
IT
PERMANENT. IT GOES THROUGH PHASES.
THERE
IT GOES THROUGH PHASES. THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT'S A
SURGE
THERE ARE TIMES WHEN IT'S A SURGE AND THEN SUBSIDE AGAIN.
BUT
SURGE AND THEN SUBSIDE AGAIN. BUT ACTUALLY, FEMINISM IS A PART
OF
BUT ACTUALLY, FEMINISM IS A PART OF THE WEST'S LEGACY.
WHEN
OF THE WEST'S LEGACY. WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE ON CAMPUS
AND
WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE ON CAMPUS AND P.C. CAMPUSES BAD MOUTH
WESTERN
AND P.C. CAMPUSES BAD MOUTH WESTERN CULTURE, FOR HEAVEN'S
SAKES,
WESTERN CULTURE, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES, FEMINISM AND INDEED THE
ENTIRE
SAKES, FEMINISM AND INDEED THE ENTIRE CONCEPT OF CIVIL
LIBERTIES
ENTIRE CONCEPT OF CIVIL LIBERTIES IS A PRODUCT OF
INDIVIDUALISM
LIBERTIES IS A PRODUCT OF INDIVIDUALISM THAT GOES ALL THE
WAY
INDIVIDUALISM THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE ANCIENT GREEKS.
FEMINISM
WAY BACK TO THE ANCIENT GREEKS. FEMINISM ITSELF WE CAN TRACE AND
THERE
FEMINISM ITSELF WE CAN TRACE AND THERE ARE EXPRESSIONS AT VARIOUS
POINTS
THERE ARE EXPRESSIONS AT VARIOUS POINTS BY ISOLATED WOMEN FROM
THE
POINTS BY ISOLATED WOMEN FROM THE MEDIEVAL PERIOD ON REALLY,
BUT
THE MEDIEVAL PERIOD ON REALLY, BUT IT REALLY HAS THE ROOTS
FOLLOWING
BUT IT REALLY HAS THE ROOTS FOLLOWING THE PERIOD OF
REVOLUTIONS
FOLLOWING THE PERIOD OF REVOLUTIONS IN THE LATE 18TH
CENTURY
REVOLUTIONS IN THE LATE 18TH CENTURY AFTER THE FRENCH
REVOLUTION
CENTURY AFTER THE FRENCH REVOLUTION AND THE AMERICAN
REVOLUTION.
YOU
REVOLUTION. YOU BEGIN TO SEE WOMEN LIKE MARY
SHELLEY,
YOU BEGIN TO SEE WOMEN LIKE MARY SHELLEY, THE DAUGHTER OF A VERY
PROMINENT
SHELLEY, THE DAUGHTER OF A VERY PROMINENT FEMINIST, WHO WANT TO
ACHIEVE
PROMINENT FEMINIST, WHO WANT TO ACHIEVE THE SAME LEVEL OF MEN,
BUT
ACHIEVE THE SAME LEVEL OF MEN, BUT YES, INSO FAR AS THE MODERN,
CATHOLIC
BUT YES, INSO FAR AS THE MODERN, CATHOLIC INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
PRODUCE
CATHOLIC INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION PRODUCE ADD SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS
WOMEN
PRODUCE ADD SYSTEM THAT ALLOWS WOMEN TO ESCAPE FROM THE
DRUDGERY
WOMEN TO ESCAPE FROM THE DRUDGERY OF HOUSE WORK AND TO BE
FREE
DRUDGERY OF HOUSE WORK AND TO BE FREE FROM DEPENDENCE ON EITHER A
HUSBAND
FREE FROM DEPENDENCE ON EITHER A HUSBAND OR A FATHER TO SUSTAIN
THEMSELVESES
HUSBAND OR A FATHER TO SUSTAIN THEMSELVESES IS IN SOME WAY,
YES,
THEMSELVESES IS IN SOME WAY, YES, FEMINISM IS A PRODUCT OF
MALE
YES, FEMINISM IS A PRODUCT OF MALE ACHIEVEMENTS.
AND
MALE ACHIEVEMENTS. AND THERE HAVE BEEN -- THERE
HAVE
AND THERE HAVE BEEN -- THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TWO STRANDS IN
FEMINISM.
THERE
FEMINISM. THERE IS A KIND OF PURITANICAL
STRAND
THERE IS A KIND OF PURITANICAL STRAND AND WHAT IS OFTEN COVERED
SUP
STRAND AND WHAT IS OFTEN COVERED SUP MANY OF THE FOUNDERS IN
FEMINISM
SUP MANY OF THE FOUNDERS IN FEMINISM AND THE WOMENS SUFFRAGE
MOVEMENT
FEMINISM AND THE WOMENS SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT IN THE 19TH CENTURY
WERE
MOVEMENT IN THE 19TH CENTURY WERE ARTISTS AND PERDITIONISTS
AND
WERE ARTISTS AND PERDITIONISTS AND WANTED TO STOP THE PUBLIC
SALE
AND WANTED TO STOP THE PUBLIC SALE OF LIQUOR BECAUSE LIQUOR
WAS
SALE OF LIQUOR BECAUSE LIQUOR WAS SOMETHING THAT CAUSE
PROBLEMS
WAS SOMETHING THAT CAUSE PROBLEMS AT HOME.
THAT
PROBLEMS AT HOME. THAT MEN DRANK UP THE FAMILY
INCOME
THAT MEN DRANK UP THE FAMILY INCOME ON GIN AND ABUSED AND
BEAT
INCOME ON GIN AND ABUSED AND BEAT THEIR WIVES AND ABANDONED
THE
BEAT THEIR WIVES AND ABANDONED THE CHILDREN AND SO ON AND SO
FORTH.
SO
FORTH. SO YOU NOTICE A PRO-SEX OR
LIBETARTIAN
SO YOU NOTICE A PRO-SEX OR LIBETARTIAN OR SORT OF EXTREME
AND
LIBETARTIAN OR SORT OF EXTREME AND EXTRAVAGANT THEATRICAL
STRAND
AND EXTRAVAGANT THEATRICAL STRAND IN FEMINISM THAT GOES
BACK
STRAND IN FEMINISM THAT GOES BACK TO VICTORIA WOODHALL.
AND
BACK TO VICTORIA WOODHALL. AND THERE HAS BEEN AN ARGUMENT
EVEN
AND THERE HAS BEEN AN ARGUMENT EVEN WITHIN FEMINISM.
NOW
EVEN WITHIN FEMINISM. NOW AND THEN ONE PART OF THE
MOVEMENT
NOW AND THEN ONE PART OF THE MOVEMENT HAS KIND OF DOMINANCE
AND
MOVEMENT HAS KIND OF DOMINANCE AND THE OTHER ONE COMES BACK.
I
AND THE OTHER ONE COMES BACK. I WAS PART OF THE PRO-SEX PART
IN
I WAS PART OF THE PRO-SEX PART IN THE 1960'S.
AND
IN THE 1960'S. AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DOORS
WERE
AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE DOORS WERE SHUT IN MY FACE.
FOR
WERE SHUT IN MY FACE. FOR MANY REASONS.
I
FOR MANY REASONS. I LOVED THE ROLLING STONES.
I
I LOVED THE ROLLING STONES. I WAS TOLD THE ROLLING STONES
WERE
I WAS TOLD THE ROLLING STONES WERE SEXIST.
I
WERE SEXIST. I THOUGHT HORMONES PLAYED A PART
IN
I THOUGHT HORMONES PLAYED A PART IN SEXUAL IDENTITY.
I
IN SEXUAL IDENTITY. I WAS TOLD THIS WAS ALL
NONSENSE.
THE
NONSENSE. THE ENTIRE PRO-SEX WING OF
FEMINISM
THE ENTIRE PRO-SEX WING OF FEMINISM LOST GROUND THROUGHOUT
THE
FEMINISM LOST GROUND THROUGHOUT THE 191970'S AND 1980'S.
BUT
THE 191970'S AND 1980'S. BUT WE MADE AN ENORMOUS
RESURGENCE
BUT WE MADE AN ENORMOUS RESURGENCE IN 1990'S.
THE
RESURGENCE IN 1990'S. THE SPECIALIST MAN AND
HETEROSEXUAL
THE SPECIALIST MAN AND HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS AND
THAT
HETEROSEXUAL RELATIONSHIPS AND THAT KIND OF STRIDENT FEMINISM
YOU
THAT KIND OF STRIDENT FEMINISM YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT OF THE
1980'S
YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT OF THE 1980'S AND EARLY 1990S, I THINK
THAT
1980'S AND EARLY 1990S, I THINK THAT IS PRETTY MUCH GONE.
>>
THAT IS PRETTY MUCH GONE. >> WASHINGTON.
CALLER:
>> WASHINGTON. CALLER: HELLO.
I
CALLER: HELLO. I AM A MOTHER HOME SCHOOLING MY
SON
I AM A MOTHER HOME SCHOOLING MY SON AND AM VERY INTERESTED IN A
CURRICULUM
SON AND AM VERY INTERESTED IN A CURRICULUM THAT WOULD HELP HIM
UNDERSTAND
CURRICULUM THAT WOULD HELP HIM UNDERSTAND THE ARTS AND THE
WORLD.
SO
WORLD. SO DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS?
>>
SO DO YOU HAVE ANY SUGGESTIONS? >> THANK YOU.
CAN
>> THANK YOU. CAN I JUST PEG ONTO THAT AN
EMAILER
CAN I JUST PEG ONTO THAT AN EMAILER WHO WANTS TO KNOW HOW DO
YOU
EMAILER WHO WANTS TO KNOW HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH -- HOW DO YOU
TREAT
YOU DEAL WITH -- HOW DO YOU TREAT A KINDERGARTEN IN ORDER TO
MAKE
TREAT A KINDERGARTEN IN ORDER TO MAKE THEM A FREE THINKER?
YOU
MAKE THEM A FREE THINKER? YOU HAVE TO FACE THIS.
>>
YOU HAVE TO FACE THIS. >> TRUE.
IN
>> TRUE. IN TERMS OF THE ARTS, I MEAN, I
THINK
IN TERMS OF THE ARTS, I MEAN, I THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO
EXPOSE
THINK IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO EXPOSE THE CHILDREN TO IMAGES.
THERE
EXPOSE THE CHILDREN TO IMAGES. THERE ARE SOME HUGE ONE VOLUME
HISTORY
THERE ARE SOME HUGE ONE VOLUME HISTORY OF ART BOOKS THAT ARE
OFTEN
HISTORY OF ART BOOKS THAT ARE OFTEN USED IN FRESHMEN COLLEGE
YEARS
OFTEN USED IN FRESHMEN COLLEGE YEARS THAT ARE LIKE THE FAMOUS
ONE
YEARS THAT ARE LIKE THE FAMOUS ONE BY JANSEN.
MIKE
ONE BY JANSEN. MIKE PARIS HAD A BOOK THAT WAS
THE
MIKE PARIS HAD A BOOK THAT WAS THE STORY OF ART THAT BEGAN WITH
THE
THE STORY OF ART THAT BEGAN WITH THE EARLIEST CAVE ART THINGS AND
MOVED
THE EARLIEST CAVE ART THINGS AND MOVED ALL THROUGH THE PERIODS.
I
MOVED ALL THROUGH THE PERIODS. I THINK IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO
INTRODUCE
I THINK IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO INTRODUCE THE CHILD TO IMAGES.
ONE
INTRODUCE THE CHILD TO IMAGES. ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT MANY
IMAGES
ONE OF THE PROBLEMS IS THAT MANY IMAGES IN THE HISTORY OF THE
WESTERN
IMAGES IN THE HISTORY OF THE WESTERN TRADITIONS ARE NUDES.
I
WESTERN TRADITIONS ARE NUDES. I THINK THAT EACH FAMILY HAS TO
MAKE
I THINK THAT EACH FAMILY HAS TO MAKE A DECISION TO THE DEGREE TO
WHICH
MAKE A DECISION TO THE DEGREE TO WHICH YOU THINK CHILDREN SHOULD
BE
WHICH YOU THINK CHILDREN SHOULD BE LOOKING AT NUDES OR NOT.
I
BE LOOKING AT NUDES OR NOT. I BELIEVE AS CHILDREN IN EUROPE,
EUROPEAN
I BELIEVE AS CHILDREN IN EUROPE, EUROPEAN KIDS ARE SEEING LEWDTY
EVERYWHERE
EUROPEAN KIDS ARE SEEING LEWDTY EVERYWHERE AND IT HASN'T CAUSED
A
EVERYWHERE AND IT HASN'T CAUSED A PERSONAL CORRUPTION.
I
A PERSONAL CORRUPTION. I THINK THAT WHERE POSSIBLE THAT
THE
I THINK THAT WHERE POSSIBLE THAT THE CHILD SHOULD BE TAKE TON A
MUSEUM.
MY
MUSEUM. MY PARENTS TOOK ME FROM UPSTATE
NEW
MY PARENTS TOOK ME FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK TO VISIT THE
METROPOLITAN
NEW YORK TO VISIT THE METROPOLITAN MUSEUM OF ART AND
WORLD
METROPOLITAN MUSEUM OF ART AND WORLD HISTORY AND IT WAS A MIND
BOGGLING
WORLD HISTORY AND IT WAS A MIND BOGGLING EXPERIENCE.
I
BOGGLING EXPERIENCE. I MUST HAVE BEEN THREE OR
FOUR-YEAR-OLD.
MIND
FOUR-YEAR-OLD. MIND BOGGLING TO SEE THE
MAGNITUDE
MIND BOGGLING TO SEE THE MAGNITUDE OF THE GREAT STONE
SPHINXES
MAGNITUDE OF THE GREAT STONE SPHINXES THAT ARE THERE AND THE
MAGNIFICENT
SPHINXES THAT ARE THERE AND THE MAGNIFICENT PAINTINGS.
UNFORTUNATELY,
MAGNIFICENT PAINTINGS. UNFORTUNATELY, SMALLER GALLERIES
AND
UNFORTUNATELY, SMALLER GALLERIES AND SMALLER TOWNS TEND TO BE
MORE
AND SMALLER TOWNS TEND TO BE MORE CONTEMPORARY ART.
BUT
MORE CONTEMPORARY ART. BUT TO ENCOURAGE THE CHILD TO
STUDY
BUT TO ENCOURAGE THE CHILD TO STUDY THE IMAGE.
TODAY
STUDY THE IMAGE. TODAY WITH MOVIES AND TV,
EVERYTHING
TODAY WITH MOVIES AND TV, EVERYTHING IS MOVING TOO
RAPIDLY.
THE
RAPIDLY. THE ART OF EXAMINING A COMPLEX
WORK
THE ART OF EXAMINING A COMPLEX WORK AND REALLY LOOKING AT IT
AND
WORK AND REALLY LOOKING AT IT AND SO MANY OF THE GREAT CLASSIC
WORKS
AND SO MANY OF THE GREAT CLASSIC WORKS OF THE MEDIEVAL PERIOD AND
THE
WORKS OF THE MEDIEVAL PERIOD AND THE BAROQUE ARE ON RELIGIOUS
TOPICS.
I
TOPICS. I THINK EVEN VERY CONSERVATIVE
FAMILIES
I THINK EVEN VERY CONSERVATIVE FAMILIES WHO FEEL THEY DON'T
WANT
FAMILIES WHO FEEL THEY DON'T WANT NUDITY IN THE IMAGES THEY
SHOW
WANT NUDITY IN THE IMAGES THEY SHOW THE CHILDREN CAN CERTAINLY
HELP
SHOW THE CHILDREN CAN CERTAINLY HELP TO DISCUSS WITH THE CHILD
SOME
HELP TO DISCUSS WITH THE CHILD SOME OF THE GREAT MASTERPIECES
WITH
SOME OF THE GREAT MASTERPIECES WITH BIBLICAL STORIES FROM THE
SISTINE
WITH BIBLICAL STORIES FROM THE SISTINE CHAPEL CEILING AND SO ON
AND
SISTINE CHAPEL CEILING AND SO ON AND I THINK YOU NEED TO GO TO
THE
AND I THINK YOU NEED TO GO TO THE LIBRARY.
YOU
THE LIBRARY. YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY BOOKS.
THESE
YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY BOOKS. THESE BOOKS ARE AVAILABLE IN THE
LIBRARY.
A
LIBRARY. A CHILD HAS TO HAVE YOUR
ENCOURAGEMENT.
I
ENCOURAGEMENT. I WAS ENCOURAGED TO TREAT ART
SERIOUSLY
I WAS ENCOURAGED TO TREAT ART SERIOUSLY BY MY FAMILY.
>>
SERIOUSLY BY MY FAMILY. >> ANOTHER COUPLE PEOPLE FROM
THE
>> ANOTHER COUPLE PEOPLE FROM THE EMAILS.
JACKIE
THE EMAILS. JACKIE KENNEDY D.
>>
JACKIE KENNEDY D. >> I WROTE A PIECE ON JACKIE
KENNEDY.
WHAT
KENNEDY. WHAT A CLASSY WOMAN AND ELEGANCE
AND
WHAT A CLASSY WOMAN AND ELEGANCE AND REFINEMENT.
I
AND REFINEMENT. I REALLY ADMIRED HER AND LOVED
THE
I REALLY ADMIRED HER AND LOVED THE WAY SHE HELD HERSELF, WHICH
IS
THE WAY SHE HELD HERSELF, WHICH IS PART OF THE HERITAGE WHEN YOU
ARE
IS PART OF THE HERITAGE WHEN YOU ARE TRAINED RIDING HORSEBACK,
AND
ARE TRAINED RIDING HORSEBACK, AND SHE HAD THIS WONDERFUL
QUALITY
AND SHE HAD THIS WONDERFUL QUALITY AND I THINK PART OF THE
GREAT
QUALITY AND I THINK PART OF THE GREAT TRAGEDY IS THE MORE WE
LEARN
GREAT TRAGEDY IS THE MORE WE LEARN ABOUT WHAT WAS REALLY
GOING
LEARN ABOUT WHAT WAS REALLY GOING ON AND SHE WAS PERSONALLY
UNDERMINED
GOING ON AND SHE WAS PERSONALLY UNDERMINED BY THE EXTENT OF THE
PHILANDERING
UNDERMINED BY THE EXTENT OF THE PHILANDERING BY HER HUSBAND, AND
EVEN
PHILANDERING BY HER HUSBAND, AND EVEN THE LEGACY OF HIS
ADMINISTRATION
EVEN THE LEGACY OF HIS ADMINISTRATION IS STARTING TO
SUFFER
ADMINISTRATION IS STARTING TO SUFFER FROM THAT.
I
SUFFER FROM THAT. I FEEL BAD ABOUT IT BECAUSE I
THINK
I FEEL BAD ABOUT IT BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE KENNEDYS, BOTH OF
THEM,
THINK THAT THE KENNEDYS, BOTH OF THEM, LIT A FIRE AND AN APPETITE
FOR
THEM, LIT A FIRE AND AN APPETITE FOR POLITICAL.
'TIS
FOR POLITICAL. 'TIS PATION IN MY GENERATION.
I
'TIS PATION IN MY GENERATION. I WILL NEVER FORGET THE ECSTASY
I
I WILL NEVER FORGET THE ECSTASY I FELT AT JOHN KENNEDY IN 1960.
AFTER
I FELT AT JOHN KENNEDY IN 1960. AFTER NOLANS AND EISENHOWER.
MAIME
AFTER NOLANS AND EISENHOWER. MAIME EISENHOWER WAS A NICE
WOMAN,
MAIME EISENHOWER WAS A NICE WOMAN, BUT SHE WAS NO JACKIE
KENNEDY.
SHE
KENNEDY. SHE WAS SO ARTICULATE AND
ARTICULATENESS
SHE WAS SO ARTICULATE AND ARTICULATENESS IN THE PRESS
CONFERENCE
ARTICULATENESS IN THE PRESS CONFERENCE AND A WONDERFUL
COMBINATION.
>>
COMBINATION. >> MICHAEL MOORE.
>>
>> MICHAEL MOORE. >> WELL, OK.
I
>> WELL, OK. I AGREE WITH HIM ABOUT POLITICS
PROBABLY
I AGREE WITH HIM ABOUT POLITICS PROBABLY AND ABOUT MANY THING,
BUT
PROBABLY AND ABOUT MANY THING, BUT I MUST DEPLORE, CONDEMN THE
METHODS
BUT I MUST DEPLORE, CONDEMN THE METHODS HE IS USING TO
FICTIONALIZE
METHODS HE IS USING TO FICTIONALIZE PRODUCTIONS HE IS
CLAIMING
FICTIONALIZE PRODUCTIONS HE IS CLAIMING ARE DOCUMENTRY.
INSO
CLAIMING ARE DOCUMENTRY. INSO FAR AS HE WAS GUILTY OF
RESTAGING
INSO FAR AS HE WAS GUILTY OF RESTAGING A SCENE INVOLVING AT
PART
RESTAGING A SCENE INVOLVING AT PART OF A BANK AND I THINK THAT
THERE'S
PART OF A BANK AND I THINK THAT THERE'S NO ROOM FOR THAT.
THERE'S
THERE'S NO ROOM FOR THAT. THERE'S NO ROOM FOR DISHONESTY
AT
THERE'S NO ROOM FOR DISHONESTY AT THE "NEW YORK TIMES" OR IN
HOLLYWOOD.
AND
HOLLYWOOD. AND SO I WISH THAT MICHAEL MOORE
WOULD
AND SO I WISH THAT MICHAEL MOORE WOULD STOP USING TACTICS OF
DEFAMATION
WOULD STOP USING TACTICS OF DEFAMATION AND DECEIT AS PART OF
HIS
DEFAMATION AND DECEIT AS PART OF HIS POLITICAL AGENDA.
>>
HIS POLITICAL AGENDA. >> DR. LAURA SCHLESINGER.
>>
>> DR. LAURA SCHLESINGER. >> WELL, DR. LAURA IS -- I MEAN,
SHE
>> WELL, DR. LAURA IS -- I MEAN, SHE IS -- IF I GET ON THE RADIO
IN
SHE IS -- IF I GET ON THE RADIO IN THE CAR, I ENJOY LISTENING TO
HER.
SHE
HER. SHE IS TOUGH.
SHE
SHE IS TOUGH. SHE IS A TOUGH COOKIE.
BY
SHE IS A TOUGH COOKIE. BY SOMETHING OVER THE YEARS,
MAYBE
BY SOMETHING OVER THE YEARS, MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TOO LITTLE
ABOUT
MAYBE A LITTLE BIT TOO LITTLE ABOUT THE PRESENTATION.
SHE
ABOUT THE PRESENTATION. SHE BASICALLY THINKS YOU CAN ALL
PULL
SHE BASICALLY THINKS YOU CAN ALL PULL YOURSELF UP BY THE BOOT
STRAPS
PULL YOURSELF UP BY THE BOOT STRAPS OF LIFE AND I THINK THERE
IS
STRAPS OF LIFE AND I THINK THERE IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM OR RELAXATION
OR
IS NOT ENOUGH ROOM OR RELAXATION OR NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR COMEDY,
SHALL
OR NOT ENOUGH ROOM FOR COMEDY, SHALL WE SAY, IN THE
PRESENTATION.
>>
PRESENTATION. >> NEXT IS TOLEDO.
HELLO,
>> NEXT IS TOLEDO. HELLO, TOLEDO.
CALLER:
HELLO, TOLEDO. CALLER: HELLO.
ADMIRE
CALLER: HELLO. ADMIRE DR. PAGLIA.
>>
ADMIRE DR. PAGLIA. >> THANK YOU.
CALLER:
>> THANK YOU. CALLER: SEEN HER MANY TIME.
BY
CALLER: SEEN HER MANY TIME. BY THE WAY, I GRADUATED FROM
BERKLEY
BY THE WAY, I GRADUATED FROM BERKLEY IN THE LATE 1960'S.
AND
BERKLEY IN THE LATE 1960'S. AND BECAME VERY LIBERAL, OF
COURSE.
AND
COURSE. AND HAD A GREAT EDUCATION THERE.
AND
AND HAD A GREAT EDUCATION THERE. AND THEN I GOT MY FIRST JOB AND
GOT
AND THEN I GOT MY FIRST JOB AND GOT A PAYCHECK AND FOUND OUT HOW
MUCH
GOT A PAYCHECK AND FOUND OUT HOW MUCH TAXES I WAS PAYING.
AND
MUCH TAXES I WAS PAYING. AND THAT CHANGED MY MIND A BIT.
BUT
AND THAT CHANGED MY MIND A BIT. BUT ON EDUCATION, I MUST TELL
YOU,
BUT ON EDUCATION, I MUST TELL YOU, I JUST MET A YOUNG LADY
ACCIDENTALLY
YOU, I JUST MET A YOUNG LADY ACCIDENTALLY IN A RESTAURANT THE
OTHER
ACCIDENTALLY IN A RESTAURANT THE OTHER DAY, AND SHE GRADUATED
HIGH
OTHER DAY, AND SHE GRADUATED HIGH SCHOOL WITH AN A AVERAGE.
AND
HIGH SCHOOL WITH AN A AVERAGE. AND WE JUST TALKED WHILE WAITING
FOR
AND WE JUST TALKED WHILE WAITING FOR OUR TABLES, AND SHE SAID
"HAVE
FOR OUR TABLES, AND SHE SAID "HAVE YOU TRAVELED A LOT?"
.
I
. I SAID
. I SAID YES.
AND
I SAID YES. AND SHE SAID, WHERE HAVE YOU
BEEN?
MOST
BEEN? MOST RECENTLY ENGLAND.
AND
MOST RECENTLY ENGLAND. AND SHE SAID, WHAT LANGUAGE DO
THEY
AND SHE SAID, WHAT LANGUAGE DO THEY SPEAK THERE?
NOW,
THEY SPEAK THERE? NOW, THIS IS REALLY A COMMENTARY
ON
NOW, THIS IS REALLY A COMMENTARY ON WHAT THE DOCTOR HAS SAID
SEVERAL
ON WHAT THE DOCTOR HAS SAID SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE DAY.
WHAT
SEVERAL TIMES DURING THE DAY. WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT SCHOOL
VOUCHERS
WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT SCHOOL VOUCHERS AND SECONDLY, I THINK,
BY
VOUCHERS AND SECONDLY, I THINK, BY THE WAY, ON ANOTHER MATTER,
YOU
BY THE WAY, ON ANOTHER MATTER, YOU PERSONIFY SEXINESS.
>>
YOU PERSONIFY SEXINESS. >> OH, THANK YOU.
OH,
>> OH, THANK YOU. OH, THANK YOU.
THESE
OH, THANK YOU. THESE ARE MY EXCITING YEARS.
OK,
THESE ARE MY EXCITING YEARS. OK, YES.
VOUCHER,
OK, YES. VOUCHER, I SUPPORT THE VOUCHERS.
I
VOUCHER, I SUPPORT THE VOUCHERS. I SUPPORT ANYTHING WHICH CAN
THROW
I SUPPORT ANYTHING WHICH CAN THROW A BOMB INTO THE CALCIFIED
PUBLIC
THROW A BOMB INTO THE CALCIFIED PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM, CAN
RELEASE
PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM, CAN RELEASE IT FROM ITS TERRIBLE
ENSLAVEMENT
RELEASE IT FROM ITS TERRIBLE ENSLAVEMENT IT HAS BY THE
TEACHERS
ENSLAVEMENT IT HAS BY THE TEACHERS UNIONS AT THE PRESENT
MOMENT.
IT'S
MOMENT. IT'S BEEN A TRAGIC DECLINE.
EVERY
IT'S BEEN A TRAGIC DECLINE. EVERY KIND OF IDIOACY AND
REMEMBER
EVERY KIND OF IDIOACY AND REMEMBER THERE WERE LEGAL
ATTEMPTS
REMEMBER THERE WERE LEGAL ATTEMPTS TO STOP AND EVEN
EXPERIMENTS
ATTEMPTS TO STOP AND EVEN EXPERIMENTS AT HAVING HIGH
SCHOOLS
EXPERIMENTS AT HAVING HIGH SCHOOLS IN THE INNER CITY THAT
WERE
SCHOOLS IN THE INNER CITY THAT WERE ALL MALES BECAUSE IT WAS
THOUGHT
WERE ALL MALES BECAUSE IT WAS THOUGHT IF YOU COULD GO -- AND I
AGREE
THOUGHT IF YOU COULD GO -- AND I AGREE WITH THAT.
KIDS
AGREE WITH THAT. KIDS AND TROUBLED STUDENTS AND
ALL
KIDS AND TROUBLED STUDENTS AND ALL KINDS OF EXPERIMENTS THAT
COULD
ALL KINDS OF EXPERIMENTS THAT COULD BE DONE IF WE COULD FREE
UP
COULD BE DONE IF WE COULD FREE UP THE EDUCATION SYSTEM FROM THE
SOCIAL
UP THE EDUCATION SYSTEM FROM THE SOCIAL ENGINEERS AMONG US.
BUT
SOCIAL ENGINEERS AMONG US. BUT THERE ARE PROBLEMS -- YOU
ARE
BUT THERE ARE PROBLEMS -- YOU ARE VERY PAROCHIAL INTERLOCKER
THE
ARE VERY PAROCHIAL INTERLOCKER THE THERE AT THE RESTAURANT,
YES,
THE THERE AT THE RESTAURANT, YES, IT IS A TERRIBLE PROBLEM.
AMERICA
YES, IT IS A TERRIBLE PROBLEM. AMERICA IS AN ENORMOUS COUNTRY
THAT
AMERICA IS AN ENORMOUS COUNTRY THAT IS THE SIZE OF SEVERAL
EUROPES
THAT IS THE SIZE OF SEVERAL EUROPES -- WE HAVE STATES THAT
ARE
EUROPES -- WE HAVE STATES THAT ARE LARGER THAN EUROPE ITSELF.
AND
ARE LARGER THAN EUROPE ITSELF. AND EUROPE IS LIKE SUCH A PATCH
WORK
AND EUROPE IS LIKE SUCH A PATCH WORK OF LANGUAGES AND CULTURES
AND
WORK OF LANGUAGES AND CULTURES AND ALSO INTERNATIONAL
CONNECTIONS
AND ALSO INTERNATIONAL CONNECTIONS AROUND THE WORLD AND
CONNECTIONS AROUND THE WORLD AND CONNECTION BETWEEN INDIA AND
BRITAIN
CONNECTION BETWEEN INDIA AND BRITAIN IS INTENSE.
SO
BRITAIN IS INTENSE. SO IN AMERICA, WE ARE VERY
INUIT.
DESPITE
INUIT. DESPITE THE ENORMITY OF THE
COUNTRY,
DESPITE THE ENORMITY OF THE COUNTRY, AND EFFORTS HAVE TO BE
MADE
COUNTRY, AND EFFORTS HAVE TO BE MADE BY EDUCATORS TO OPEN UP THE
MINDS
MADE BY EDUCATORS TO OPEN UP THE MINDS OF THE STUDENTS TO GREAT
WORLD
MINDS OF THE STUDENTS TO GREAT WORLD THAT IS OUT THERE, BUT NOT
IN
WORLD THAT IS OUT THERE, BUT NOT IN THIS KIND OF MULTI, WAY THAT
SAY
IN THIS KIND OF MULTI, WAY THAT SAY ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD
ARE
SAY ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE WORLD ARE THE GREAT PEACEFUL NATION
AND
ARE THE GREAT PEACEFUL NATION AND THE ONLY EVIL PEOPLE IN THE
WORLD
AND THE ONLY EVIL PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE THE AMERICANS.
THERE
WORLD ARE THE AMERICANS. THERE WOULD BE A WONDERFUL
PARADISE
THERE WOULD BE A WONDERFUL PARADISE IF THERE WASN'T EVIL
AMERICA.
THEY
AMERICA. THEY ARE TAUGHT THIS, ETC.
I
THEY ARE TAUGHT THIS, ETC. I THINK MOST OF PUBLIC
EDUCATION,
I THINK MOST OF PUBLIC EDUCATION, INCLUDING COLLEGE
THESE
EDUCATION, INCLUDING COLLEGE THESE DAYS, IS A WASTE OF TIME.
A
THESE DAYS, IS A WASTE OF TIME. A TREMENDOUS WASTE OF TIME.
KIDS
A TREMENDOUS WASTE OF TIME. KIDS ARE MADLY BORED.
I
KIDS ARE MADLY BORED. I THINK THERE SHOULD BE MUCH
MORE
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE MUCH MORE DEVELOPMENT AND RETURN TO
TRADE
MORE DEVELOPMENT AND RETURN TO TRADE SCHOOLS WHERE KIDS ARE
LEARNING
TRADE SCHOOLS WHERE KIDS ARE LEARNING SOMETHING.
I
LEARNING SOMETHING. I THINK THAT EVERY SINGLE COURSE
BEING
I THINK THAT EVERY SINGLE COURSE BEING TAUGHT HAS TO BE EVALUATED
IN
BEING TAUGHT HAS TO BE EVALUATED IN TERMS OF WHAT THE KIDS ARE
GETTING.
I
GETTING. I THINK THE KIDS NEED HELP WITH
LEARNING
I THINK THE KIDS NEED HELP WITH LEARNING HOW TO HOUSE KEEP.
THE
LEARNING HOW TO HOUSE KEEP. THE HOLD HOME ECONOMICS THING
HOPELESSLY
THE HOLD HOME ECONOMICS THING HOPELESSLY OUTMODED AND THAT
KIND
HOPELESSLY OUTMODED AND THAT KIND OF THING.
PEOPLE
KIND OF THING. PEOPLE NEED HOW TO BALANCE A
CHECKBOOK.
KIDS
CHECKBOOK. KIDS AREN'T LEARNING THINGS AT
HOME.
I
HOME. I THINK MINORITIES NEED HELP
WITH
I THINK MINORITIES NEED HELP WITH BUSINESS AND HOW TO MANAGE
SMALL
WITH BUSINESS AND HOW TO MANAGE SMALL BUSINESSES TO GIVE THEM A
LEG
SMALL BUSINESSES TO GIVE THEM A LEG UP, WHEREAS PEOPLE FROM THE
UPPER
LEG UP, WHEREAS PEOPLE FROM THE UPPER MIDDLE CLASS HAVE, OK, CAN
LEARN
UPPER MIDDLE CLASS HAVE, OK, CAN LEARN THINGS ABOUT INVESTMENTS
AND
LEARN THINGS ABOUT INVESTMENTS AND THE STOCK MARKET FROM THEIR
FAMILY.
THERE
FAMILY. THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM THE
WORKING
THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM THE WORKING CLASS DON'T.
IT'S
WORKING CLASS DON'T. IT'S THE UTTER EMPTINESS OF SO
MUCH
IT'S THE UTTER EMPTINESS OF SO MUCH PUBLIC EDUCATION THESE
DAYS.
THE
DAYS. THE FRIVOLITY OF IT AND THE
MEDIOCRITY
THE FRIVOLITY OF IT AND THE MEDIOCRITY OF IT IN AMERICA IS
JUST
MEDIOCRITY OF IT IN AMERICA IS JUST SHOCKING TO THE NINE.
I
JUST SHOCKING TO THE NINE. I AM IN FAVOR OF KIDS NOT GOING
DIRECTLY
I AM IN FAVOR OF KIDS NOT GOING DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE, BUT
ACTUALLY
DIRECTLY INTO COLLEGE, BUT ACTUALLY F THE FAMILIES CAN
AFFORD
ACTUALLY F THE FAMILIES CAN AFFORD IT, SEND THEM ABROAD.
HAVE
AFFORD IT, SEND THEM ABROAD. HAVE THEM RETURN TO COLLEGE
LATER
HAVE THEM RETURN TO COLLEGE LATER AND HAVE MORE ADULTS ENTER
COLLEGE.
WE
COLLEGE. WE NEED MUCH MORE INTERPLAY IN
AGES.
THE
AGES. THE SOCIAL PRESSURES IN HIGH
SCHOOL
THE SOCIAL PRESSURES IN HIGH SCHOOL ARE TERRIBLE RIGHT NOW.
TO
SCHOOL ARE TERRIBLE RIGHT NOW. TO KEEP ON GRADUATING KIDS IN
THIS
TO KEEP ON GRADUATING KIDS IN THIS BIG GROUP OF THE AGE GROUP
UP
THIS BIG GROUP OF THE AGE GROUP UP LIKE THAT AND OF COURSE,
CAN'T
UP LIKE THAT AND OF COURSE, CAN'T KEEP THEM BACK.
HEAVEN
CAN'T KEEP THEM BACK. HEAVEN FORBID -- THEY CAN'T READ
OR
HEAVEN FORBID -- THEY CAN'T READ OR WRITE, SOCIAL PROMOTION,
GRADUATE
OR WRITE, SOCIAL PROMOTION, GRADUATE THEM WITHOUT WRITING
AND
GRADUATE THEM WITHOUT WRITING AND READING SKILLS, ETC., ETC.,
AND
AND READING SKILLS, ETC., ETC., AND WE NEED MUCH MORE MIXING OF
AGES
AND WE NEED MUCH MORE MIXING OF AGES IN SCHOOLS.
I
AGES IN SCHOOLS. I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO FREE
PEOPLE
I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO FREE PEOPLE FROM THE TYRANNY OF THE
SCHOOL.
ONE
SCHOOL. ONE OF THE REASONS I THOUGHT
THERE
ONE OF THE REASONS I THOUGHT THERE WAS THE COLUMBINE MASSACRE
IS
THERE WAS THE COLUMBINE MASSACRE IS YOU HAVE BOYED PENED IN
SCHOOL.
THE
SCHOOL. THE PHYSICAL ENGINEERS NEED TO
DO
THE PHYSICAL ENGINEERS NEED TO DO SOMETHING.
FIND
DO SOMETHING. FIND SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DO.
AND
FIND SOMETHING FOR THEM TO DO. AND THEN, OH, THEY CAN'T BUY
LIQUOR.
BECAUSE
LIQUOR. BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BUY ALCOHOL
UNTIL
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BUY ALCOHOL UNTIL THEY ARE 21, THEY ARE OFF
TAKING
UNTIL THEY ARE 21, THEY ARE OFF TAKING EVERY KIND OF WEIRD DRUG
FROM
TAKING EVERY KIND OF WEIRD DRUG FROM SPECIAL K, ANIMAL
TRANQUILIZERS,
FROM SPECIAL K, ANIMAL TRANQUILIZERS, TO ECSTASY,
PICKLING
TRANQUILIZERS, TO ECSTASY, PICKLING THEIR BRAINS.
THERE
PICKLING THEIR BRAINS. THERE IS A WHOLD PICKLED BRAIN
GENERATION
THERE IS A WHOLD PICKLED BRAIN GENERATION MOVING FORWARD.
ALCOHOL,
GENERATION MOVING FORWARD. ALCOHOL, AT LEAST YOU ARE
VIOLENTLY
ALCOHOL, AT LEAST YOU ARE VIOLENTLY SICK IF YOU OVERDO IT,
BUT
VIOLENTLY SICK IF YOU OVERDO IT, BUT IT EVACUATES THE SYSTEM THE
NEXT
BUT IT EVACUATES THE SYSTEM THE NEXT DAY.
PRODUCING
NEXT DAY. PRODUCING UNSOPHISTICATED, KIDS
WITH
PRODUCING UNSOPHISTICATED, KIDS WITH MINDS OF JELL-O WHO ARE
UNEDUCATED
WITH MINDS OF JELL-O WHO ARE UNEDUCATED AND CAN'T FIND MEXICO
ON
UNEDUCATED AND CAN'T FIND MEXICO ON THE MAP.
THAT
ON THE MAP. THAT IS WHAT GOT ME IN THE LAST
YEAR
THAT IS WHAT GOT ME IN THE LAST YEAR WHEN WE WERE BEING FORCED
INTO
YEAR WHEN WE WERE BEING FORCED INTO A WAR AND PEOPLE COULDN'T
FIND
INTO A WAR AND PEOPLE COULDN'T FIND IRAQ ON THE MAP.
MOST
FIND IRAQ ON THE MAP. MOST AMERICANS WOULD HAVEN'T THE
REMOTEST
MOST AMERICANS WOULD HAVEN'T THE REMOTEST IDEA OF WHERE IRAQ IS
OR
REMOTEST IDEA OF WHERE IRAQ IS OR THE HISTORY OF MID EASTERN
POLITICSER
OR THE HISTORY OF MID EASTERN POLITICSER TO IDEA THAT THE
BRITISH
POLITICSER TO IDEA THAT THE BRITISH EMPIRE MADE THIS MISTAKE
BEFORE
BRITISH EMPIRE MADE THIS MISTAKE BEFORE GETTING INTO IRAQ
FOLLOWING
BEFORE GETTING INTO IRAQ FOLLOWING THE CUTTING UP OF THE
AUDUBON
FOLLOWING THE CUTTING UP OF THE AUDUBON EMPIRE OF WORLD WAR I.
>>
AUDUBON EMPIRE OF WORLD WAR I. >> ST. LOUIS, OREGON.
CALLER:
>> ST. LOUIS, OREGON. CALLER: HI.
DOCTOR,
CALLER: HI. DOCTOR, SPEAKING OF PICKLED
BRAINS,
DOCTOR, SPEAKING OF PICKLED BRAINS, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR
OPINION
BRAINS, I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION OF THIS.
THINKING
OPINION OF THIS. THINKING OF PAT SCHROEDER AND
WHAT
THINKING OF PAT SCHROEDER AND WHAT SHE ACCOMPLISHED WITH
OTHERS
WHAT SHE ACCOMPLISHED WITH OTHERS IN THE MILITARY.
I
OTHERS IN THE MILITARY. I CERTAINLY OPPOSE WOMEN IN THE
MILITARY
I CERTAINLY OPPOSE WOMEN IN THE MILITARY WHEN IT COMES TO COMBAT
POSITIONS
MILITARY WHEN IT COMES TO COMBAT POSITIONS AND THINGS.
CERTAINLY
POSITIONS AND THINGS. CERTAINLY WOMEN IN THE MILITARY
HAVE
CERTAINLY WOMEN IN THE MILITARY HAVE A VERY BIG PLACE AND IT
SHOULD
HAVE A VERY BIG PLACE AND IT SHOULD GET BIGGER, BUT I HAVE A
HUGE
SHOULD GET BIGGER, BUT I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH THAT.
IF
HUGE PROBLEM WITH THAT. IF I COULD SAY ONE OTHER THING
ABOUT
IF I COULD SAY ONE OTHER THING ABOUT IF I REMEMBER GULF WAR
ONE,
ABOUT IF I REMEMBER GULF WAR ONE, THERE WERE A LOT OF WOMEN,
I
ONE, THERE WERE A LOT OF WOMEN, I GUESS N RESERVE UNITS THAT
WENT
I GUESS N RESERVE UNITS THAT WENT AND AFTERWARDS THE MILITARY
DIDN'T
WENT AND AFTERWARDS THE MILITARY DIDN'T WANT THIS OUT, BUT THERE
WAS
DIDN'T WANT THIS OUT, BUT THERE WAS A HUGE NUMBER THAT BECAME
PREGNANT
WAS A HUGE NUMBER THAT BECAME PREGNANT WHILE THEY WERE THERE
OR
PREGNANT WHILE THEY WERE THERE OR OTHERS THAT AFTER SIX MONTHS
WERE
OR OTHERS THAT AFTER SIX MONTHS WERE HAVING TO GO HOME BECAUSE
OF
WERE HAVING TO GO HOME BECAUSE OF MATERNAL REASONS.
I
OF MATERNAL REASONS. I HAVE A HARD PROBLEM WITH WOMEN
EVEN
I HAVE A HARD PROBLEM WITH WOMEN EVEN AT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES
BECAUSE
EVEN AT THE SERVICE ACADEMIES BECAUSE IT DOES COME DOWN DONE
TO
BECAUSE IT DOES COME DOWN DONE TO A COMBAT-TYPE SITUATION.
I
TO A COMBAT-TYPE SITUATION. I AM INTERESTED IN HER OPINIONS
ON
I AM INTERESTED IN HER OPINIONS ON THE SUBJECT.
THANKS.
>>
THANKS. >> WHEN I GIVE A LECTURE AT WEST
POINTE,
>> WHEN I GIVE A LECTURE AT WEST POINTE, I GOT AN EARFUL FOR A
NUMBER
POINTE, I GOT AN EARFUL FOR A NUMBER OF CADETS.
I
NUMBER OF CADETS. I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT
ABOUT
I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT ABOUT WOMEN IN THE MILITARY.
THEY
ABOUT WOMEN IN THE MILITARY. THEY HAVE NOT EVER ACTUALLY
SERVED
THEY HAVE NOT EVER ACTUALLY SERVED IN COMBAT -- EVEN, AS I
UNDERSTAND
SERVED IN COMBAT -- EVEN, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, IN THE ISRAELI
ARMY,
UNDERSTAND IT, IN THE ISRAELI ARMY, ON THE FRONT LINES.
AND
ARMY, ON THE FRONT LINES. AND THE THING IS IN OUR MODERN
MEL
AND THE THING IS IN OUR MODERN MEL TEAR, OF COURSE, WHEN YOU
HAVE
MEL TEAR, OF COURSE, WHEN YOU HAVE THE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGICAL
MACHINERY,
HAVE THE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGICAL MACHINERY, WOMEN JET PILOTS AND
CERTAINLY
MACHINERY, WOMEN JET PILOTS AND CERTAINLY TEEMS TO ME SERVE AS
WELL
CERTAINLY TEEMS TO ME SERVE AS WELL AS MEN PROBABLY.
IF
WELL AS MEN PROBABLY. IF THEY ARE ABLE TO ATTACK
WITHOUT
IF THEY ARE ABLE TO ATTACK WITHOUT ANY LOWERING OF THE
STANDARDS
WITHOUT ANY LOWERING OF THE STANDARDS FOR MEN AND WAS DONE
IN
STANDARDS FOR MEN AND WAS DONE IN THE CASES OF THE MISSIONS OF
SOME
IN THE CASES OF THE MISSIONS OF SOME WOMEN IN LOCAL FIRE
COMPANIES.
BUT
COMPANIES. BUT I THINK HONESTLY IT'S STILL
NOT
BUT I THINK HONESTLY IT'S STILL NOT KNOWN TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD
WOMENS'
NOT KNOWN TO WHAT EXTENT WOULD WOMENS' PRESENCE IN A COMBAT
UNIT
WOMENS' PRESENCE IN A COMBAT UNIT COMPROMISE COHESION.
I
UNIT COMPROMISE COHESION. I AM WILLING TO HAVE AN OPEN
MIND
I AM WILLING TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND ABOUT IT.
I
MIND ABOUT IT. I AM PERFECTLY WILLING AS A
FEMINIST
I AM PERFECTLY WILLING AS A FEMINIST TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, THIS
IS
FEMINIST TO SAY, ALL RIGHT, THIS IS ONE AREA WHERE IT'S NOT
WORKING
IS ONE AREA WHERE IT'S NOT WORKING TO HAVE WOMEN.
BUT
WORKING TO HAVE WOMEN. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THIS ARGUMENT
ALSO
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, THIS ARGUMENT ALSO CROSSES OVER TO GAYS IN THE
MILITARY.
AND
MILITARY. AND THERE THE IDEA THAT GAYS
SHOULD
AND THERE THE IDEA THAT GAYS SHOULD BE DRUMMED OUT OF THE
MILITARY
SHOULD BE DRUMMED OUT OF THE MILITARY BECAUSE THEIR PRESENCE,
TOO,
MILITARY BECAUSE THEIR PRESENCE, TOO, WOULD BREAK DOWN COHESION
IN
TOO, WOULD BREAK DOWN COHESION IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE THE
SOLDIERS
IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE THE SOLDIERS LITERALLY SLEEPING ON
TOP
SOLDIERS LITERALLY SLEEPING ON TOP OF EACH OTHER IN CONDITIONS
WHERE
TOP OF EACH OTHER IN CONDITIONS WHERE THE TEMPERATURE IS 20
BELOW
WHERE THE TEMPERATURE IS 20 BELOW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT,
ALL
BELOW OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, ALL THESE QUESTIONS ARE VERY
THORNY
ALL THESE QUESTIONS ARE VERY THORNY ONES.
WE
THORNY ONES. WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN A WAR TO TEST
IT
WE HAVEN'T BEEN IN A WAR TO TEST IT FOR VERY LONG.
I
IT FOR VERY LONG. I CERTAINLY AGREE THE MILITARY
SHOULD
I CERTAINLY AGREE THE MILITARY SHOULD NOT BE A LABORATORY FOR
SOCIAL
SHOULD NOT BE A LABORATORY FOR SOCIAL ENGINEERING AND I THINK
THAT
SOCIAL ENGINEERING AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE
1990'S
THAT IS WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE 1990'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRAYING
TO
1990'S WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRAYING TO ENFORCE SEXUAL POLICY AND IN
OTHER
TO ENFORCE SEXUAL POLICY AND IN OTHER WORDS, TO ENFORCE CULTURE
CHANGES
OTHER WORDS, TO ENFORCE CULTURE CHANGES AHEAD WHEN, IN FACT, THE
MILITARY
CHANGES AHEAD WHEN, IN FACT, THE MILITARY IS OUR FIGHTING ARMOR.
WE'RE
MILITARY IS OUR FIGHTING ARMOR. WE'RE GOING TO DEPEND ON IT.
I
WE'RE GOING TO DEPEND ON IT. I OPPOSE ANY KIND OF MISUSE OF
THE
I OPPOSE ANY KIND OF MISUSE OF THE MILITARY FOR ANY REASONS AS
NOW
THE MILITARY FOR ANY REASONS AS NOW IN IRAQ WHERE OUR
BRILLIANTLY
NOW IN IRAQ WHERE OUR BRILLIANTLY TRAINED MILITARY IS
BEING
BRILLIANTLY TRAINED MILITARY IS BEING USED FOR POLICE DUTIES FOR
WHICH
BEING USED FOR POLICE DUTIES FOR WHICH IT IS ILL EQUIP AND
SOLDIERS
WHICH IT IS ILL EQUIP AND SOLDIERS ARE NOT JUST BEING
KILLED,
SOLDIERS ARE NOT JUST BEING KILLED, BUT FOR THE MEDIA AS
USUAL,
KILLED, BUT FOR THE MEDIA AS USUAL, IT'S A PRECEDENT.
BUT
USUAL, IT'S A PRECEDENT. BUT THEY ARE BEING WOUNDED WITH
THE
BUT THEY ARE BEING WOUNDED WITH THE LOSS OF LIMBS AND PEOPLE NOT
GOING
THE LOSS OF LIMBS AND PEOPLE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO WALK FOR THE
REST
GOING TO BE ABLE TO WALK FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES AND ALL THAT
AND
REST OF THEIR LIVES AND ALL THAT AND ALL OF THAT IS BEING KEPT
FROM
AND ALL OF THAT IS BEING KEPT FROM US RIGHT NOW.
YEAH,
FROM US RIGHT NOW. YEAH, YEAH.
>>
YEAH, YEAH. >> PENNSYLVANIA.
CALLER:
>> PENNSYLVANIA. CALLER: HI.
THIS
CALLER: HI. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I EVER
HEARD
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I EVER HEARD ABOUT YOU.
I'M
HEARD ABOUT YOU. I'M SORRY.
BUT
I'M SORRY. BUT I WILL GET SOME OF YOUR BOOK
IN
BUT I WILL GET SOME OF YOUR BOOK IN THE FUTURE.
YOU
IN THE FUTURE. YOU ARE VERY INTERESTING.
AWE
YOU ARE VERY INTERESTING. AWE THANK YOU.
CALLER:
AWE THANK YOU. CALLER: I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS.
PRESENTLY,
CALLER: I WAS A LITTLE NERVOUS. PRESENTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW
TWO
PRESENTLY, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW TWO THINGS.
WHAT
TWO THINGS. WHAT THINK OF THE DEMOCRATIC
PARTY
WHAT THINK OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AGAIN, NOT TAKING THE
BLACK
PARTY AGAIN, NOT TAKING THE BLACK VOTE FOR GRANTED AND JUST
GOING
BLACK VOTE FOR GRANTED AND JUST GOING ON ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS
AND
GOING ON ABOUT THEIR BUSINESS AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE WHITE
HOUSE
AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE WHITE HOUSE AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE
CONGRESS?
IS
CONGRESS? IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM
AGAIN
IS IT GOING TO HAPPEN TO THEM AGAIN IF THEY IGNORE THE BLACK
VOTE?
AND
VOTE? AND ALSO, WHAT DO YOU THINK
ABOUT
AND ALSO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE LIBERAL ARTS IN
AMERICA
ABOUT THE LIBERAL ARTS IN AMERICA IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS
HAVE
AMERICA IN AFRICAN-AMERICANS HAVE BEEN PROTESTING AND SAYING
WITH
HAVE BEEN PROTESTING AND SAYING WITH LOUD VOICES TO INCLUDE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS
WITH LOUD VOICES TO INCLUDE AFRICAN-AMERICANS STUDIES INTO
THE
AFRICAN-AMERICANS STUDIES INTO THE LIBERAL ARTS PROGRAMS AND SO
FORTH
THE LIBERAL ARTS PROGRAMS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON?
AND
FORTH AND SO ON? AND OF COURSE, WOULDN'T THAT
ALLOW
AND OF COURSE, WOULDN'T THAT ALLOW AT LEAST NOT A LEVEL WITH
AFRICAN-AMERICANS?
>>
AFRICAN-AMERICANS? >> THANKS, PENNSYLVANIA.
>>
>> THANKS, PENNSYLVANIA. >> NUMBER ONE, IT IS INTERESTING
I
>> NUMBER ONE, IT IS INTERESTING I THINK THAT THE ONLY PERSON TO
WRITE
I THINK THAT THE ONLY PERSON TO WRITE RIGHT NOW IS AL SHARPTON,
WHO
WRITE RIGHT NOW IS AL SHARPTON, WHO IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO DARES
TO
WHO IS THE ONLY PERSON WHO DARES TO BE SPEAKING OUT AT ALL TO THE
OTHER
TO BE SPEAKING OUT AT ALL TO THE OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES WHO
ARE
OTHER DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES WHO ARE VERY CONSTRAINED BY THEIR
FOCUS
ARE VERY CONSTRAINED BY THEIR FOCUS GROUPS AND THEIR ADVISERS
AND
FOCUS GROUPS AND THEIR ADVISERS AND ONLY SEEM LIKE THEY ARE
WALKING
AND ONLY SEEM LIKE THEY ARE WALKING MUMMIES.
THEY
WALKING MUMMIES. THEY CAN'T BE TOTALLY HONEST
ABOUT
THEY CAN'T BE TOTALLY HONEST ABOUT THE REAL VIEWS ON ANY
ISSUE.
WE
ISSUE. WE WILL SEE IF IT WILL HAPPEN.
I
WE WILL SEE IF IT WILL HAPPEN. I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY BIG
WAKE-UP
I THINK IT WOULD BE A VERY BIG WAKE-UP CALL FOR THE DRARKT
PARTY
WAKE-UP CALL FOR THE DRARKT PARTY IF THERE IS A SPLIT IN --
FOR
PARTY IF THERE IS A SPLIT IN -- FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IF AL
SHARPTON
FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IF AL SHARPTON TAKES THE VOTES AND
MOVES
SHARPTON TAKES THE VOTES AND MOVES WITH THEM.
I
MOVES WITH THEM. I VOTED FOR JESSE JACKSON
ACTUALLY
I VOTED FOR JESSE JACKSON ACTUALLY IN 1988, THE
PRESIDENTIAL
ACTUALLY IN 1988, THE PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY, BECAUSE I
WANTED
PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY, BECAUSE I WANTED TO -- I WANTED MORE
CANDIDATES
WANTED TO -- I WANTED MORE CANDIDATES OF COLOR AND MORE
WOMEN
CANDIDATES OF COLOR AND MORE WOMEN AT THE TOP LEVEL AND WE'RE
JUST
WOMEN AT THE TOP LEVEL AND WE'RE JUST NOT GETTING THEM.
I
JUST NOT GETTING THEM. I THINK IT IS SOMETHING REALLY
WRONG
I THINK IT IS SOMETHING REALLY WRONG IN TERMS OF THE -- I MEAN
THERE
WRONG IN TERMS OF THE -- I MEAN THERE ARE MANY -- IT SEEMS TO ME
THERE
THERE ARE MANY -- IT SEEMS TO ME THERE ARE MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN
CANDIDATES
THERE ARE MANY AFRICAN-AMERICAN CANDIDATES AT THE LOCAL LEVEL
AND
CANDIDATES AT THE LOCAL LEVEL AND AT THE LEVEL OF STATE
GOVERNMENT
AND AT THE LEVEL OF STATE GOVERNMENT AND SO ON AND EVEN IN
THE
GOVERNMENT AND SO ON AND EVEN IN THE CONGRESS.
AND
THE CONGRESS. AND THEY REALLY -- WE NEED TO
BRING
AND THEY REALLY -- WE NEED TO BRING THEM FORWARD MORE.
IN
BRING THEM FORWARD MORE. IN TERMS OF -- THIS IS ONE OF
THE
IN TERMS OF -- THIS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED
ACTUALLY
THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED ACTUALLY IN THE ACADEMY IN THE
LAST
ACTUALLY IN THE ACADEMY IN THE LAST 25 YEARS.
THE
LAST 25 YEARS. THE FIRST, THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN
STUDIES
THE FIRST, THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES DEPARTMENTS AND THEN THE
LATIN
STUDIES DEPARTMENTS AND THEN THE LATIN AMERICAN STUDIES
DEPARTMENT
LATIN AMERICAN STUDIES DEPARTMENT AND SO ON THAT
THERE'S
DEPARTMENT AND SO ON THAT THERE'S A PROCESS OF KIND OF
SPLINTERING
THERE'S A PROCESS OF KIND OF SPLINTERING THAT OCCURRED IN THE
HUMANITY.
I
HUMANITY. I DON'T THINK WHAT'S IN THE BEST
INTEREST
I DON'T THINK WHAT'S IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE HUMANITIES
OVERALL,
INTEREST OF THE HUMANITIES OVERALL, CERTAINLY IT GOT
AFRICAN-AMERICAN
OVERALL, CERTAINLY IT GOT AFRICAN-AMERICAN ISSUES MUCH
MORE
AFRICAN-AMERICAN ISSUES MUCH MORE TO THE CURRICULUM IN
COLLEGE
MORE TO THE CURRICULUM IN COLLEGE AND ALSO AT THE HIGH
SCHOOL
COLLEGE AND ALSO AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.
I
SCHOOL LEVEL. I WAS HAPPY TO HEAR THAT THE
HARVARD
I WAS HAPPY TO HEAR THAT THE HARVARD DEPARTMENT OF
AFRICAN-AMERICAN
HARVARD DEPARTMENT OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES IS NOW
GOING
AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES IS NOW GOING TO MOVE MORE TOWARD THE
AFRICAN
GOING TO MOVE MORE TOWARD THE AFRICAN DIRECTION, TO STRESS THE
AFRICAN
AFRICAN DIRECTION, TO STRESS THE AFRICAN SIDE.
THE
AFRICAN SIDE. THE QUESTION OF ARI CAN HISTORY
AND
THE QUESTION OF ARI CAN HISTORY AND LANGUAGE IS WHAT I FELT IS
MUCH
AND LANGUAGE IS WHAT I FELT IS MUCH MORE NECESSARY.
BUT
MUCH MORE NECESSARY. BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T WANT
ANY
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T WANT ANY KIND OF FRAGMENTATION IN THE
HUMAN
ANY KIND OF FRAGMENTATION IN THE HUMAN TIS.
I
HUMAN TIS. I DON'T WANT A SITUATION WHERE
YOU
I DON'T WANT A SITUATION WHERE YOU SAY BLACK TEENAGERS SHOULD
ONLY
YOU SAY BLACK TEENAGERS SHOULD ONLY BE TAUGHT AFRICAN-AMERICAN
CULTURE.
I
CULTURE. I THINK THAT IS TERRIBLE.
I
I THINK THAT IS TERRIBLE. I THINK THAT BLACK TEENAGERS
SHOULD
I THINK THAT BLACK TEENAGERS SHOULD NOT JUST READ
AFRICAN-AMERICAN
SHOULD NOT JUST READ AFRICAN-AMERICAN LITERATURE, BUT
THEY
AFRICAN-AMERICAN LITERATURE, BUT THEY SHOULD BE EXPOSED TO THE
WHOLE
THEY SHOULD BE EXPOSED TO THE WHOLE OF THE HISTORY OF THE
ARTS.
>>
ARTS. >> SEATTLE?
CALLER:
>> SEATTLE? CALLER: YES.
HI,
CALLER: YES. HI, DR. PAGLIA.
>>
HI, DR. PAGLIA. >> HI.
CALLER:
>> HI. CALLER: LET ME SAY AT THE START
THAT
CALLER: LET ME SAY AT THE START THAT I LIKE YOU AND YOU HAVE GOT
TO
THAT I LIKE YOU AND YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST
INTERESTING
TO BE ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING WOMAN I HAVE EVER
SEEN
INTERESTING WOMAN I HAVE EVER SEEN ON TV.
AND
SEEN ON TV. AND I HAVE SEEN YOU ON OTHER
OCCASIONS.
>>
OCCASIONS. >> ARE YOU THERE, CALLER?
>>
>> ARE YOU THERE, CALLER? >> LOST THE CALLER.
>>
>> LOST THE CALLER. >> CALLER R YOU THERE?
>>
>> CALLER R YOU THERE? >> I'M SORRY.
WE
>> I'M SORRY. WE LOST HIM.
>>
WE LOST HIM. >> TOO BAD.
I
>> TOO BAD. I APOLOGIZE.
LET
I APOLOGIZE. LET ME GO THROUGH THE BOOK.
>>
LET ME GO THROUGH THE BOOK. >> SURE.
>>
>> SURE. >> WHAT WILL PEOPLE FIND IN
"SEXUAL
>> WHAT WILL PEOPLE FIND IN "SEXUAL PERSONAE"?
>>
"SEXUAL PERSONAE"? >> IT IS A VIEW OF THE WHOLE
HISTORY
>> IT IS A VIEW OF THE WHOLE HISTORY OF WESTERN CULTURE THAT
BEGINS
HISTORY OF WESTERN CULTURE THAT BEGINS WITH CAVE ART AND MOVES
INTO
BEGINS WITH CAVE ART AND MOVES INTO ANCIENT EGYPT AND GREECE
AND
INTO ANCIENT EGYPT AND GREECE AND ITALIAN ART AND SO ON AND
INTO
AND ITALIAN ART AND SO ON AND INTO LITERATURE AND TRIES TO
SHOW
INTO LITERATURE AND TRIES TO SHOW WHAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL
SCENES
SHOW WHAT ARE THE FUNDAMENTAL SCENES IN WESTERN LITERATURE.
I
SCENES IN WESTERN LITERATURE. I WROTE IN IT A WAY THAT SHOULD
BE
I WROTE IN IT A WAY THAT SHOULD BE ACCESSIBLE TO THE GENERAL
READER.
GIVE
READER. GIVE PEOPLE A SENSE OF HISTORY.
>>
GIVE PEOPLE A SENSE OF HISTORY. >> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS"?
>>
>> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS"? >> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS" IS A
COLLECTION
>> "VAMPS AND TRAMPS" IS A COLLECTION OF ESSAYS -- IT'S THE
SECOND
COLLECTION OF ESSAYS -- IT'S THE SECOND COLLECTION ACTUALLY.
IT
SECOND COLLECTION ACTUALLY. IT CONTAINS NO LAW IN THE ARENA
IS
IT CONTAINS NO LAW IN THE ARENA IS THE SOCIAL AND POLITICAL PHI
LOSFY.
IT
LOSFY. IT HAS A WIDE VARIETY OF ESSAYS
ON
IT HAS A WIDE VARIETY OF ESSAYS ON THE CLINTONS AND OTHER THINGS
AND
ON THE CLINTONS AND OTHER THINGS AND THE PROGRAM I DID IN ENGLAND
ABOUT
AND THE PROGRAM I DID IN ENGLAND ABOUT THE PENIS AND PENISES IN
ART
ABOUT THE PENIS AND PENISES IN ART AS WELL AS A TRANSCRIPT OF
VIDEOS
ART AS WELL AS A TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEOS DID WITH DRAG QUEENS.
WITH
VIDEOS DID WITH DRAG QUEENS. WITH A DRAG QUEEN, GLENDA
ORGANIZE
WITH A DRAG QUEEN, GLENDA ORGANIZE GASM, WHO IS IN NEW
YORK.
A
YORK. A DOCUMENTRY I DID AND ALL KINDS
OF
A DOCUMENTRY I DID AND ALL KINDS OF THINGS ARE THERE.
>>
OF THINGS ARE THERE. >> "SEX, ART, AND THE AMERICAN
CULTURE."
>>
CULTURE." >> THESE ARE THE INITIAL
ARTICLES
>> THESE ARE THE INITIAL ARTICLES ON MADONNA, DATE RAPE,
AND
ARTICLES ON MADONNA, DATE RAPE, AND JUNK BONDS AND CORPORATE
RAIDER,
AND JUNK BONDS AND CORPORATE RAIDER, WHICH IS THE LONG ATTACK
ON
RAIDER, WHICH IS THE LONG ATTACK ON CONTEMPORARY CAM CAMPUSES.
>>
ON CONTEMPORARY CAM CAMPUSES. >> AND "THE BIRDS"?
>>
>> AND "THE BIRDS"? >> "THE BIRDS" BRITISH WOMEN
ASKED
>> "THE BIRDS" BRITISH WOMEN ASKED ME TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE
SERIES
ASKED ME TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SERIES AND IT IS APPARENTLY ONE
OF
SERIES AND IT IS APPARENTLY ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR.
IT
OF THE MOST POPULAR. IT IS A SCENE BY SCENE ANALYSIS
OF
IT IS A SCENE BY SCENE ANALYSIS OF THE GREAT MASTERPIECE BY
ALFRED
OF THE GREAT MASTERPIECE BY ALFRED HITCHCOCK WRITTEN FOR THE
GENERAL
ALFRED HITCHCOCK WRITTEN FOR THE GENERAL READER AND MEANT -- WHEN
YOU
GENERAL READER AND MEANT -- WHEN YOU START IT, EVERY POSSIBLE
LITTLE
YOU START IT, EVERY POSSIBLE LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT THE MOVIE,
ABOUT
LITTLE DETAIL ABOUT THE MOVIE, ABOUT THE SET, THE COSTUME, AND
SO
ABOUT THE SET, THE COSTUME, AND SO ON, BUT AS YOU READ IT, THE
MOVIE
SO ON, BUT AS YOU READ IT, THE MOVIE SHOULD UNFOLD IN FRONT OF
YOUR
MOVIE SHOULD UNFOLD IN FRONT OF YOUR ICE.
IT
YOUR ICE. IT STARTS FROM THE BEGINNING AND
IS
IT STARTS FROM THE BEGINNING AND IS A GREAT BOOK TO TRAIN.
YOU
IS A GREAT BOOK TO TRAIN. YOU WILL FEEL YOU HAVE SEEN THE
ENTIRE
YOU WILL FEEL YOU HAVE SEEN THE ENTIRE FILM BEGINNING TO END TO
PASSING
ENTIRE FILM BEGINNING TO END TO PASSING IN FRONT OF YOU.
>>
PASSING IN FRONT OF YOU. >> MARIAN -- DO YOU KNOW HER?
>>
>> MARIAN -- DO YOU KNOW HER? >> SOMEONE WITH A REPUTATION AT
DUKE
>> SOMEONE WITH A REPUTATION AT DUKE UNIVERSITY AND IS NOW ON
THE
DUKE UNIVERSITY AND IS NOW ON THE MARGINS.
>>
THE MARGINS. >> THIS IS WHAT SHE WROTE ABOUT
YOU.
"I
YOU. "I SUSPECT PAGLIA WILL BE TRUE
TO
"I SUSPECT PAGLIA WILL BE TRUE TO THE PAST IN WAYS SHE DOES NOT
EVEN
TO THE PAST IN WAYS SHE DOES NOT EVEN SUSPECT.
THAT
EVEN SUSPECT. THAT SHE IS GOING TO END UP
DISAPPOINTING
THAT SHE IS GOING TO END UP DISAPPOINTING AND ALIENATING
EVERYONE,
DISAPPOINTING AND ALIENATING EVERYONE, INCLUDING THE CURRENT
BACKERS.
THAT
BACKERS. THAT SHE IS GOING TO
SELF-DESTRUCT.
PAGLIA
SELF-DESTRUCT. PAGLIA MAY SURPRISE ME -- SHE'S
DONE
PAGLIA MAY SURPRISE ME -- SHE'S DONE IT BEFORE, BUT I AM AFRAID
SHE
DONE IT BEFORE, BUT I AM AFRAID SHE WILL KEEP TALKING WHEN SHE
HAS
SHE WILL KEEP TALKING WHEN SHE HAS NOTHING MORE TO SAY."
>>
HAS NOTHING MORE TO SAY." >> HERE IT IS 10 YEARS LATER.
EVERYBODY
>> HERE IT IS 10 YEARS LATER. EVERYBODY THOUGHT SHE WILL HAVE
THE
EVERYBODY THOUGHT SHE WILL HAVE THE 15 MINUTES OF FAME AND THE
LADIES
THE 15 MINUTES OF FAME AND THE LADIES IN BIG WHEELS AND I CAME
TON
LADIES IN BIG WHEELS AND I CAME TON SCENE LIKE AN EXPLOSION.
WHO
TON SCENE LIKE AN EXPLOSION. WHO IS SHE?
WHO
WHO IS SHE? WHO IS SHE?
I
WHO IS SHE? I WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS TOTALLY
UNPUBLISHED,
I WAS SOMEONE WHO WAS TOTALLY UNPUBLISHED, WHO WAS STRUGGLING
FOR
UNPUBLISHED, WHO WAS STRUGGLING FOR MOST OF MY CAREER.
I
FOR MOST OF MY CAREER. I WROTE A 700 PAGE BOOK, WHICH
BY
I WROTE A 700 PAGE BOOK, WHICH BY THE WAY, THAT WOMAN HAS NEVER
READ.
AND
READ. AND MOLLY IVINS HAS NEVER READ.
AND
AND MOLLY IVINS HAS NEVER READ. AND NAOMI WOLF HAS NEVER READ.
ALL
AND NAOMI WOLF HAS NEVER READ. ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE NEVER READ
THE
ALL THESE PEOPLE HAVE NEVER READ THE MASTER WORK, WHICH IS
"SEXUAL
THE MASTER WORK, WHICH IS "SEXUAL PERSONAE."
>>
"SEXUAL PERSONAE." >> WE KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN
WE
>> WE KNOW MORE ABOUT YOU THAN WE DID THREE HOURS AGO.
THANK
WE DID THREE HOURS AGO. THANK YOU.
>>
THANK YOU. >> APPRECIATE THE INVITATION.
>>
>> APPRECIATE THE INVITATION. >> CAMILLE PAGLIA THE GUEST ON
IN-DEPTH
>> CAMILLE PAGLIA THE GUEST ON IN-DEPTH THIS MONTH.
THANKS
IN-DEPTH THIS MONTH. THANKS FOR